CNBC to claim Remington has been selling defective weapons for many many years
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Double Naught Spy
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Remington's own estimate was 1% back in the 1970s with 2,000,000 units out which would be 20,000 that would be problematic. That was based on their testing of brand new guns coming off the assembly line that had never been in the hands of consumers.
Where did you get the number of 1100?
Wildalaska
Moderator
In response to Josie's comment, Im going to also point out that we are the Remington Service center here in Alaska.
I have been here doing that for 15 years.
I have seen more ABUSED Remingtons than probably anyone outside their service center. And I am talking about guns left overwinter in boats , or ones used by generations of Village hunters that have NEVER been cleaned,lor guns coming in after a hunt so filthy with mud and grunge ya got to wash your hands off after you touch them. I have seen Remingtons lubed with seal oil, or sprayed with so much WD40 that virtually nothing is working
I have seen examples on Remingtons of slam fires, or have had guns checked in because they "went off". This is NOT COMMON, DESPITE THE ABUSE THAT THESE GUNS TAKE UNDER SEVERE CONDITIONS UP HERE.
In 99.9% of the cases, every problem we have seen with a Remington Trigger has been caused by home gunsmithing or improper maintenance. The other .01% could not be duplicated, which leads me to conclude that sometimes folks dont know where their trigger fingers are.
Whats improper maintenance? Well dont get home after a hunt and toss your muddy, soaking wet rifle in a Gun Case for a year, then pull it out, spray it with WD 40 to free the parts, and start shooting. Dont let your buddy mess with the trigger in his garage. Inspect your firearm, dry fire it work the bolt BEFORE you load it. When you inspect it, look at the sear and the trigger. Got sticks and twigs and mud in there....CLEAN IT.
Don't know how? Call Remington, bet they will help you, gratis. And their Service Department is top notch and one of the easiest to work with.
Spend the $50 once a year to have your gun cleaned and inspected, hell many times we do it for free...Remington encourages us to do that. Its a mechanical device, it must be maintained.
I posted earlier about the legal aspects of this. As far as I am concerned, the so called problem with Remington triggers is a problem with the way our legal system works as opposed to a defective design.
WildandthatsthatAlaska ™©2002-2010
I have been here doing that for 15 years.
I have seen more ABUSED Remingtons than probably anyone outside their service center. And I am talking about guns left overwinter in boats , or ones used by generations of Village hunters that have NEVER been cleaned,lor guns coming in after a hunt so filthy with mud and grunge ya got to wash your hands off after you touch them. I have seen Remingtons lubed with seal oil, or sprayed with so much WD40 that virtually nothing is working
I have seen examples on Remingtons of slam fires, or have had guns checked in because they "went off". This is NOT COMMON, DESPITE THE ABUSE THAT THESE GUNS TAKE UNDER SEVERE CONDITIONS UP HERE.
In 99.9% of the cases, every problem we have seen with a Remington Trigger has been caused by home gunsmithing or improper maintenance. The other .01% could not be duplicated, which leads me to conclude that sometimes folks dont know where their trigger fingers are.
Whats improper maintenance? Well dont get home after a hunt and toss your muddy, soaking wet rifle in a Gun Case for a year, then pull it out, spray it with WD 40 to free the parts, and start shooting. Dont let your buddy mess with the trigger in his garage. Inspect your firearm, dry fire it work the bolt BEFORE you load it. When you inspect it, look at the sear and the trigger. Got sticks and twigs and mud in there....CLEAN IT.
Don't know how? Call Remington, bet they will help you, gratis. And their Service Department is top notch and one of the easiest to work with.
Spend the $50 once a year to have your gun cleaned and inspected, hell many times we do it for free...Remington encourages us to do that. Its a mechanical device, it must be maintained.
I posted earlier about the legal aspects of this. As far as I am concerned, the so called problem with Remington triggers is a problem with the way our legal system works as opposed to a defective design.
WildandthatsthatAlaska ™©2002-2010
There was a case in Austin, Texas and believe it was back in the late 70's,
where a prominent Austin lawyers son was unloading his mod 700 and it
went off, shooting his father through the spine. I watched this show just
last night, and thought it was well balanced and produced. C'mon, guys, this
is not anything new. Ive heard of this situation for years! Even Mr. Walker,
the ex Remington honco who designed the rifle, said that he had told the
company bosses that there was a problem. The first story concerned the
lady who accidentally shot her 9 year old son, when she took the safety off
to unload her mod. 700. The shot went completely thought the barn and hit
her son, killing him. I usually have no use for any of the major networks and
their stories, but this one was put together extremely well, and what was
interesting was that Remington officials were asked to be on the show, but
declined.
where a prominent Austin lawyers son was unloading his mod 700 and it
went off, shooting his father through the spine. I watched this show just
last night, and thought it was well balanced and produced. C'mon, guys, this
is not anything new. Ive heard of this situation for years! Even Mr. Walker,
the ex Remington honco who designed the rifle, said that he had told the
company bosses that there was a problem. The first story concerned the
lady who accidentally shot her 9 year old son, when she took the safety off
to unload her mod. 700. The shot went completely thought the barn and hit
her son, killing him. I usually have no use for any of the major networks and
their stories, but this one was put together extremely well, and what was
interesting was that Remington officials were asked to be on the show, but
declined.
Wildalaska
Moderator
I just got off the phone with my Remington Field Service rep.
Remington realizes of course that bad publicity is bad publicity, BS or not. Remington will stand behind their products. Remington also wants folks to be confident with their rifles.
So if you are one of those folks who honestly believes that there is a problem with a properly maintained Remington trigger and only a new one will ease your mind, then just call them or your local service center. They will take of you.
WildtheywillevencleanitforyouAlaska ™©2002-2010
Remington realizes of course that bad publicity is bad publicity, BS or not. Remington will stand behind their products. Remington also wants folks to be confident with their rifles.
So if you are one of those folks who honestly believes that there is a problem with a properly maintained Remington trigger and only a new one will ease your mind, then just call them or your local service center. They will take of you.
WildtheywillevencleanitforyouAlaska ™©2002-2010
pythagorean
Moderator
Wildalaska,
Thanks for your input. I have been following this thread because throughout my life I've had numerous (over 20 easily) 700s, mostly BDLs.
The new one I have now that I got in February is the 700 CDL .257 Weatherby with a BLUED fluted barrel (26") order # 85397.
Can you tell me why this rifle is so hard to find current information on? It wasn't listed in the 2008 catalog.
Does this have a new trigger system? It sure is better than any previous trigger system from the box that I've encountered.
Thanks in advance for your reply.
Thanks for your input. I have been following this thread because throughout my life I've had numerous (over 20 easily) 700s, mostly BDLs.
The new one I have now that I got in February is the 700 CDL .257 Weatherby with a BLUED fluted barrel (26") order # 85397.
Can you tell me why this rifle is so hard to find current information on? It wasn't listed in the 2008 catalog.
Does this have a new trigger system? It sure is better than any previous trigger system from the box that I've encountered.
Thanks in advance for your reply.
Wildalaska
Moderator
See my prior posts, especially the one about how our legal system works.
WildthisisnotabaddesigncaseAlaska ™©2002-2010
FrankenMauser
New member
Now that I've seen the show... I feel obligated to comment.
But I'm going to do something else.
There are too many Chicken Littles here, that won't understand - no matter how well the argument is presented.
And... Everything I would say has already been discussed. Manipulated figures. Defect percentages only mentioned once (because it points out that the problem is NOT wide spread, if you think about the number). Basing an entire argument upon three interviews, and some case reports... There isn't much evidence to actually support the side of "Remington is the devil".
Remember the "runaway" Toyota Prius in California?
The one the driver claimed had a stuck accelerator pedal, the brakes didn't work, he couldn't shift into neutral, or turn the vehicle off; and went on a 90 mph drive down the interstate, before a highway patrolman and 911 operator talked him through getting it stopped.
It was a massive hit against Toyota - the very day they were at a congressional hearing over the sticking accelerator pedals. Most people believed the driver. Some people still do.
However, the real story came out, over the following months:
During the 911 call, the driver verbally refused to try shifting into neutral, or turning the engine off (yet, a psychologist reviewing the audio recording decided he was not panicked, and was in a sane state of mind). Trying to defend his inaction, he later claimed 'I was afraid the car might flip, if I shifted out of Forward'. (Yea... that's a reasonable argument.)
He also claimed to have been repeatedly pressing the brake pedal as hard as he could, "all the way to the floor". Yet, on-board telemetry (which he didn't know about) showed that he was barely dragging the brakes - just enough to get them hot, but not enough to shut off the engine.
That's something else he didn't know about. If the brake pedal and throttle are pressed at the same time on a Prius, the engine shuts down as a safety measure. This system was verified to be working on his car, before the brakes were even replaced (after the incident).
Again... with the on-board telemetry; the driver had a few slips of his foot during the drive. The data showed that he partially, or completely lifted off the throttle several times. Twice, he was even talking to the 911 operator when he did it - yet never mentioned the car slowing, or a change in engine RPM.
He also claimed to have tried multiple times to reach down and pull the accelerator pedal up from the floor. Yet... his defensive statements about not shifting into neutral, and not turning the engine off were centered around him not wanting to take his hands off the steering wheel at the time (even though he had a cell phone in one hand for much of the drive... {he must have forgotten about that one}).
The list goes on, and on...
But, before you get to the end, you find out that the driver was over $700,000 in debt, had just filed bankruptcy, was behind on payments for the Prius, and had a history of insurance fraud.
Do you really believe his Prius had a stuck accelerator pedal?
That's an "isolated" incident with a different product; but a good example of the lengths people will go to, to try to make some money, or 'force' a company into a monetary settlement.
Do you really believe that all of the Remington complaints were justified?
What about the massive spike after it got some media coverage?
Media coverage of the Toyota accelerator issue is exactly what spurred Mr. Sikes into creating the Prius hoax.
But I'm going to do something else.
There are too many Chicken Littles here, that won't understand - no matter how well the argument is presented.
And... Everything I would say has already been discussed. Manipulated figures. Defect percentages only mentioned once (because it points out that the problem is NOT wide spread, if you think about the number). Basing an entire argument upon three interviews, and some case reports... There isn't much evidence to actually support the side of "Remington is the devil".
Remember the "runaway" Toyota Prius in California?
The one the driver claimed had a stuck accelerator pedal, the brakes didn't work, he couldn't shift into neutral, or turn the vehicle off; and went on a 90 mph drive down the interstate, before a highway patrolman and 911 operator talked him through getting it stopped.
It was a massive hit against Toyota - the very day they were at a congressional hearing over the sticking accelerator pedals. Most people believed the driver. Some people still do.
However, the real story came out, over the following months:
During the 911 call, the driver verbally refused to try shifting into neutral, or turning the engine off (yet, a psychologist reviewing the audio recording decided he was not panicked, and was in a sane state of mind). Trying to defend his inaction, he later claimed 'I was afraid the car might flip, if I shifted out of Forward'. (Yea... that's a reasonable argument.)
He also claimed to have been repeatedly pressing the brake pedal as hard as he could, "all the way to the floor". Yet, on-board telemetry (which he didn't know about) showed that he was barely dragging the brakes - just enough to get them hot, but not enough to shut off the engine.
That's something else he didn't know about. If the brake pedal and throttle are pressed at the same time on a Prius, the engine shuts down as a safety measure. This system was verified to be working on his car, before the brakes were even replaced (after the incident).
Again... with the on-board telemetry; the driver had a few slips of his foot during the drive. The data showed that he partially, or completely lifted off the throttle several times. Twice, he was even talking to the 911 operator when he did it - yet never mentioned the car slowing, or a change in engine RPM.
He also claimed to have tried multiple times to reach down and pull the accelerator pedal up from the floor. Yet... his defensive statements about not shifting into neutral, and not turning the engine off were centered around him not wanting to take his hands off the steering wheel at the time (even though he had a cell phone in one hand for much of the drive... {he must have forgotten about that one}).
The list goes on, and on...
But, before you get to the end, you find out that the driver was over $700,000 in debt, had just filed bankruptcy, was behind on payments for the Prius, and had a history of insurance fraud.
Do you really believe his Prius had a stuck accelerator pedal?
That's an "isolated" incident with a different product; but a good example of the lengths people will go to, to try to make some money, or 'force' a company into a monetary settlement.
Do you really believe that all of the Remington complaints were justified?
What about the massive spike after it got some media coverage?
Media coverage of the Toyota accelerator issue is exactly what spurred Mr. Sikes into creating the Prius hoax.
engineermike
Moderator
How much more time do you think will pass before the real story, of this Remington trigger, will come out? I also believe that the designer of this trigger had put in place an inspection of all the rifle triggers before the rifles left the factory and later Remington did away with this inspection. (Guess the inspection was not needed)
As I said earlier, "I am voting with my feet," I'm not sending Remington any of my money.
Mike
As I said earlier, "I am voting with my feet," I'm not sending Remington any of my money.
Mike
.300 Weatherby Mag
New member
Funny how I was writing a letter to bitch to Remington about my R700 when I saw the CNBC story on the R700... I never touched my trigger or modified the gun in anyway.. Sent it back to the factory, then after they didn't fix it I took it to my local factory authorized service center.. Trigger was so bad out of the box, I couldn't predict when it would go off... Pull was 14#'s, felt like it was full of metal shavings, and sometimes lagged before finally lighting off.. The stock inletting was crap, barrel was touching the channel in approx 8 places, action inletting was uneven, looked like I inletted it while drinking with a hammer and chisel... Had the trigger at least made servicable by the service center, still shot like crap.. Then addressed the stock, by cleaning up the action and barrel inletting, still shot like crap... Recrowned it and then had it glass bedded, 4" groups at 100 yards was the best this rifle has ever produced... For a new Remington 700 CDL ($800), this performance is pathetic.. I've already spent $500 alone just having the service center troubleshoot the rifle.. Different rings and bases have done nothing, neither has scope changes.. My service center, whom I trust to do all my gunsmithing have told me that they've exhausted all the other options.. In my letter, I've spelled out either give me a barrel or a new rifle or I will never purchase another new Remington Product... Maybe with all this negative publicity they will finally fix my POS...
P.S.
I love my other remington 700s but this latest example is crap!!!!!!!!!!!!
CPTMurdoc30
New member
I will go buy another Remington right now.
I am of the side that it really is not a flaw in the trigger.
If the trigger is so flawed why is not every single rifle doing this.
I am sorry if you shot someone while unloading your rifle your an effing idiot and can't under stand "DON'T AIM YOUR WEAPON AT ANYTHING YOU DON'T WANT TO KILL OR DESTROY".
The trigger is easy to adjust they didn't say anything about the owners adjusting that I seen. How do you know that the triggers were bone stock? You don't.
The guy with a blurred face. Who was he? Was he a cop or just some douche that they hired to do that with a rifle that was fixed to do it.
I am sorry people lost limbs and lost family members. None of them would have lost anything if they were using proper safety.
I don't know about anyone else, but my dad drilled in to my head that you can never ever trust a safety 100% and too many people don't learn that today.....
All it takes is 30 sec on a google search and 3 minutes reading the instructions to adjust the trigger. If you don't take your time and do it right you just made the rifle very unsafe.
We have had a Remington in the house since I was a wee lad of 6 years old. Never had a single problem with them.
A very good friend said this on another forum and I stand behind it 100%.
I am of the side that it really is not a flaw in the trigger.
If the trigger is so flawed why is not every single rifle doing this.
I am sorry if you shot someone while unloading your rifle your an effing idiot and can't under stand "DON'T AIM YOUR WEAPON AT ANYTHING YOU DON'T WANT TO KILL OR DESTROY".
The trigger is easy to adjust they didn't say anything about the owners adjusting that I seen. How do you know that the triggers were bone stock? You don't.
The guy with a blurred face. Who was he? Was he a cop or just some douche that they hired to do that with a rifle that was fixed to do it.
I am sorry people lost limbs and lost family members. None of them would have lost anything if they were using proper safety.
I don't know about anyone else, but my dad drilled in to my head that you can never ever trust a safety 100% and too many people don't learn that today.....
All it takes is 30 sec on a google search and 3 minutes reading the instructions to adjust the trigger. If you don't take your time and do it right you just made the rifle very unsafe.
We have had a Remington in the house since I was a wee lad of 6 years old. Never had a single problem with them.
A very good friend said this on another forum and I stand behind it 100%.
Maybe I missed it but has anyone address the scene where the gun discharged when the shooter touched the bolt?
If I'm not mistaken, first he pulled the trigger, yelled that he had had a misfire, someone off camera responded, he then went to eject the shell and the gun discharged before he could open the bolt.
Perhaps I'm wrong but could'nt that be some bad ammo?
And if so should that have even be in a program about trigger malfuctions
If I'm not mistaken, first he pulled the trigger, yelled that he had had a misfire, someone off camera responded, he then went to eject the shell and the gun discharged before he could open the bolt.
Perhaps I'm wrong but could'nt that be some bad ammo?
And if so should that have even be in a program about trigger malfuctions
YARDDOG(1)
New member
I've been useing one sence the seveties yes a older model, got to take it of safety to open bolt, No problems & many ofMANY deer & hogs shot with that gun.
I'm fixin to go hunting this weekend with it, Hope I get a couple of deer ; )
Y/D
I'm fixin to go hunting this weekend with it, Hope I get a couple of deer ; )
Y/D
Remington
I have had two Remington 700's, one in 300 Winchester Mag that I shot a nice 6x6 bull elk with and deer, and one in 458 Winchester Mag that I used to bear hunt in Alaska and shot a nice moose with. Never had any problems with either of them, however I hate the bolt release being a small square metal tab in the top of the trigger guard just foward of the trigger. I had one bolt come out on a hunting trip when the bolt release did not properly engage when I put the bolt back in the rifle.
I saw the show on CNBC and I think Remington like so many large corporations, and the government and the military sometimes, finds it cheaper to cover up the issue rather than being a man about it and doing the right thing admitting wrong and correcting it. We gun owners need to police our own and when someone is wrong whether it be a gun owner or a gun company we need to stand together against them just as when they are right we need to stand together with them. If we don't it just adds fuel to the fire of the gun haters.
I will be replacing the triggers on my Remingtons on my own dime.
For those of you who say the rifles should have been pointed at the sky or at the ground, a high power rifle bullet can travel miles through the air and kill someone although it has a low chance of happening it has happened, still however safer that pointing the rifle at someone or downrange at houses or vehicles. As far as pointing at the ground probably the safest method as long as your feet and no one's feet is in the way but in rocky ground a richochet could kill or wound you or others, still probably the safest way to point the muzzle of a rifle. Point blank do not trust safeties, but a rifle that fires when the safety is taken off or when the bolt is handled is not something I would manufacture or sell to anyone. I salute Mike Walker the engineer who designed the action for his honesty and his bravery for trying to get Remington to fix the problems over the decades he worked there.
I have had two Remington 700's, one in 300 Winchester Mag that I shot a nice 6x6 bull elk with and deer, and one in 458 Winchester Mag that I used to bear hunt in Alaska and shot a nice moose with. Never had any problems with either of them, however I hate the bolt release being a small square metal tab in the top of the trigger guard just foward of the trigger. I had one bolt come out on a hunting trip when the bolt release did not properly engage when I put the bolt back in the rifle.
I saw the show on CNBC and I think Remington like so many large corporations, and the government and the military sometimes, finds it cheaper to cover up the issue rather than being a man about it and doing the right thing admitting wrong and correcting it. We gun owners need to police our own and when someone is wrong whether it be a gun owner or a gun company we need to stand together against them just as when they are right we need to stand together with them. If we don't it just adds fuel to the fire of the gun haters.
I will be replacing the triggers on my Remingtons on my own dime.
For those of you who say the rifles should have been pointed at the sky or at the ground, a high power rifle bullet can travel miles through the air and kill someone although it has a low chance of happening it has happened, still however safer that pointing the rifle at someone or downrange at houses or vehicles. As far as pointing at the ground probably the safest method as long as your feet and no one's feet is in the way but in rocky ground a richochet could kill or wound you or others, still probably the safest way to point the muzzle of a rifle. Point blank do not trust safeties, but a rifle that fires when the safety is taken off or when the bolt is handled is not something I would manufacture or sell to anyone. I salute Mike Walker the engineer who designed the action for his honesty and his bravery for trying to get Remington to fix the problems over the decades he worked there.
Double Naught Spy
New member
It was not an ammo problem. Note that the Rem expert on the stand in the Texas oilman case had a gun fire that he was demonstrating that would not...and there was no ammo in the gun.
What the video was demonstrating was that if anything upset the fire control such as a slight movement of the trigger, even with the safety on, that subsequent motion of the bolt could result in discharge.
For my .02, I hope the value of the used Remington 700's falls thru the floor. I'll be buying in huge quantities. I see a lot of rifles as I deal with a lot of trappers. I've seen 700's that are nothing but a ball of rust, busted stocks, etc and never have I heard of one going off unless somebody pulled the trigger. As I see it, this is another attack on our rights to own weapons. If it ain't safe, our Gubberment has to protect us from ourselves and outlaw them.
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