CNBC to claim Remington has been selling defective weapons for many many years
- Thread starter ZeroJunk
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Wildalaska
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I'm not going to claim I speak for remington, but review my posts, infra.
WildthatsthestoryAlaska ™©2002-2010
WildthatsthestoryAlaska ™©2002-2010
I have read your posts Ken. But, there are a couple of guys with one or two posts that are simply posting a link on most all gun forums. I assume that they are Remington employess or at least Remington put them up to it. If they are Remington employees I sincerely would like to hear what they have to say rather than a link to talking points.
The points in the link above seem to be hooray for Remington and shoot the experts more than no it can't go off without the trigger being pulled and here is why I say that.
If it can fire without the trigger being pulled which evidence suggests that it does infrequently with their own internal documents supporting that conclusion, I don't see how they spin their way out of it.
I like nuts and bolts, not a PR campaign.
The points in the link above seem to be hooray for Remington and shoot the experts more than no it can't go off without the trigger being pulled and here is why I say that.
If it can fire without the trigger being pulled which evidence suggests that it does infrequently with their own internal documents supporting that conclusion, I don't see how they spin their way out of it.
I like nuts and bolts, not a PR campaign.
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ZeroJunk said:
If Remington or others have arguments that prove the original design cannot fail due to connector problems, then I wish they would discuss the technical reasons for their conclusion. As far as I know I have seen no such technical argument. I have only seen the original designer saying there is indeed a problem.
Remington needs to go to nuts and bolts arguments rather than a PR campaing......that is if they have a counter argument.
PS. I have gone back and viewed Remington's response more than one time. Sorry, but I just don't see any real technical argument. I see things like Remington has a long history, people saying they are reliable, they are quality built, they perform well, etc. But this is about a specific design and exactly how it functions. Still waiting for the technical argument.
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t4terrific
New member
This sucks. I was planning on buying a Remington 700. Now what?
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olddav said:
They are great guns, as long as the trigger is fixed. I like my son's 700 .223 a lot. Great shooting and never has failed.........so far anyway.
Wish I was smart enough to tell Remington what to do, but I just don't know. If they come out now with a full recall they are screwed, if they don't they are screwed. Maybe they can think of something in between??
The CNBC special mentioned a factory test that would determine if the trigger would malfunction or not. They called it 'tricking the trigger' and the images they used showed a screwdriver into the mechanism.
I am curious to know how to perform this test myself on my Remington M700 Classic.
I am curious to know how to perform this test myself on my Remington M700 Classic.
Beliefs Interfering With Reality
I have been watching this topic with interest, it shows the split between two camps incredibly well. The one right wing camp believes everything related to guns is just a hidden agenda to take our guns. That is a view that refuses to use objective common sense reasoning skills that are appropriate for each and every different circumstance.
We need good, accurate, unbiased reporting and investigative research to allow us to see what's going on with issues we need to know about.
The earlier comments I made were general in the context of what responsible and accurate news reporting is and how a right wing afraid of agendas on everything gun related automatically assumes MSN has a spin. Is this perhaps because they are used to nothing but spin on their preferred sources?
I saw the show last night (Friday), and would have to say it was filled with substantiated documentation supporting the major pertinent facts that place Remington in a very vulnerable and liabily prone position. This is their fault for refusing to acknowledge and accept responsibility for a known problem. Not only is it their fault but they have chosen to adopt a position of denial as a public front. Meanwhile there are multiple internal memos and documents pertaining to awareness and even suggestions and advice as to how to fix the problems, which management chose to ignore due to the cost.
There is a difference between a news network throwing out completely false premises and made up facts geared toward creating reactions in people too ignorant of the real numbers and facts to realize they are being stirred up on false premises. For people that fall into an entirely false reality the ability to differentiate facts that are well substantiated with easy to discern documentation and sources this becomes their radical left full of made up facts and hidden agendas. This show was done with documents as proof, this sets a standard of reliability because the network could be substatially sued for damages to Remington's reputation if this was fabricated in any way. People need to be able to differentiate between well documented facts and reporting that relies on hand wavy rhetoric and made up numbers. This is a graphic representation of people letting unfounded beliefs get in the way of facts.
As far as I'm concerned a company willing to refuse to acknowledge and fix a problem like the 700 trigger/safety system deserves to fail. Dupont sold the company because they saw the liability coming as could be proved by memos and dates and they deserve to have to help pick up the class action liability that could exceed the total net worth of Remington. If Remington fails it will be bought by another entity that is hopefully more responsible.
So.... do we let Remington skate on deplorable management decisions, or see that they are held responsible for their actions? I guess I'm a Sako kind of guy anyway so I'm not attached, perhaps that explains the unbiased nature of my opinions. I don't see this as a left oriented attack on the pillars of our gun rights either.
Natman, buy a 700, Remington has been quietly addressing this behind the scenes, I seriously doubt a new rifle will be a problem. Better be quick, Remington may be toast with the class action suits they may be fielding.
I have been watching this topic with interest, it shows the split between two camps incredibly well. The one right wing camp believes everything related to guns is just a hidden agenda to take our guns. That is a view that refuses to use objective common sense reasoning skills that are appropriate for each and every different circumstance.
We need good, accurate, unbiased reporting and investigative research to allow us to see what's going on with issues we need to know about.
The earlier comments I made were general in the context of what responsible and accurate news reporting is and how a right wing afraid of agendas on everything gun related automatically assumes MSN has a spin. Is this perhaps because they are used to nothing but spin on their preferred sources?
I saw the show last night (Friday), and would have to say it was filled with substantiated documentation supporting the major pertinent facts that place Remington in a very vulnerable and liabily prone position. This is their fault for refusing to acknowledge and accept responsibility for a known problem. Not only is it their fault but they have chosen to adopt a position of denial as a public front. Meanwhile there are multiple internal memos and documents pertaining to awareness and even suggestions and advice as to how to fix the problems, which management chose to ignore due to the cost.
There is a difference between a news network throwing out completely false premises and made up facts geared toward creating reactions in people too ignorant of the real numbers and facts to realize they are being stirred up on false premises. For people that fall into an entirely false reality the ability to differentiate facts that are well substantiated with easy to discern documentation and sources this becomes their radical left full of made up facts and hidden agendas. This show was done with documents as proof, this sets a standard of reliability because the network could be substatially sued for damages to Remington's reputation if this was fabricated in any way. People need to be able to differentiate between well documented facts and reporting that relies on hand wavy rhetoric and made up numbers. This is a graphic representation of people letting unfounded beliefs get in the way of facts.
As far as I'm concerned a company willing to refuse to acknowledge and fix a problem like the 700 trigger/safety system deserves to fail. Dupont sold the company because they saw the liability coming as could be proved by memos and dates and they deserve to have to help pick up the class action liability that could exceed the total net worth of Remington. If Remington fails it will be bought by another entity that is hopefully more responsible.
So.... do we let Remington skate on deplorable management decisions, or see that they are held responsible for their actions? I guess I'm a Sako kind of guy anyway so I'm not attached, perhaps that explains the unbiased nature of my opinions. I don't see this as a left oriented attack on the pillars of our gun rights either.
Natman, buy a 700, Remington has been quietly addressing this behind the scenes, I seriously doubt a new rifle will be a problem. Better be quick, Remington may be toast with the class action suits they may be fielding.
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