CCW with a single action

[Sharkbite]

Hmmm...double action alone does not make a gun the best tool.

I never said it was.

Rapid follow up shots without having to break your firing grip (either 1 or 2 handed).
No intricate movements (thumbing back the hammer) to prep the gun for EVERY shot
Low capicity and the unrealistic ability to reload in a timely fashion.

There is a reason SA revolvers were replaced as sidearms over a century ago. They have simply been surpassed as the most effective tools for the job.

Can you still build a house with a hand cranked drill and hand saw? Sure, is it the most efficient way to get the job done? NO

 

[moosemike]

Carrying a SA revolver in the 21st century is pure vanity

Yup

 

[shafter]

Can you still build a house with a hand cranked drill and hand saw? Sure, is it the most efficient way to get the job done? NO

You can give a guy all the modern tools there but unless he's skilled in their use he won't be able to build you a house, whereas the craftsman with his old hand tools can build a showplace.

I've noticed that guys who shoot single actions tend to shoot them a lot, as in ALOT. There are folks here who have round counts in the tens of thousands per firearm. All single actions. How many can come even close with their pocket pistols? Not many.

I don't think anyone questions that firearm technology has evolved over the years to give us a better fighting tool. However there is more to winning a fight than having the best tool. Practice, skill, and mindset all take precedence. If you took a top single action six gunner and took him back in time and gave him a Glock or a double action revolver and had him apply the same amount of practice then I believe he would be better prepared for a fight.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I would never recommend a single action to a new shooter as a weapon of choice for self defense. But, I believe that those who for whatever reason have developed years of experience and put tens of thousands of rounds downrange through their sixguns, and developed an intimate familiarity with them, are very much prepared to defend themselves with them. More so than those who put a few boxes a year through their pocket gun.

 

[Laz]

I’ve enjoyed reading this thread and though I’m no great skilled pistolero I thought I would add that over the years my handgun shooting and collecting has evolved more and more into single action revolvers simply because I just like them and handgun shooting is first of all a pleasurable hobby. Self defense is an important but honestly secondary reason I buy and shoot handguns. It makes sense to try to defend myself with what I like to shoot the most, whenever that makes sense. I don’t use a SA for concealed carry mostly because they are generally too large for me to successfully carry them concealed with any comfort. I’m not a large man. My lifestyle and circumstances call for a degree of discretion they cannot provide. Lack of a reasonably fast reload is another, but secondary concern. I do have a couple modern, higher capacity semi auto handguns for home defense and potential carry but honestly at home I rely most often on my SA revolvers because I am familiar with them; I trust them; they are readily available; and, at home there is no reason I cannot have a second or even a third SA revolver near at hand to solve any reloading issue. As people often point out, at home a handgun is primarily a means to defend myself until I can reach a long gun, at least in a best case scenario, which likely won’t happen that way. At least with a SA revolver I will not be reduced to cowering and begging for mercy. I don’t expect ninjas or trained commandos to attack my home.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Success stories? The only success stories about carrying a SA revolver would be those where the gun was never needed. Foolish to carry a SA revolver. Not even a good 4th choice.

Not true. There was an incident a couple of years ago in which a convenience store robber was taken on by a customer who was armed with an Italian reproduction cowboy six-gun. The customer won. I'd call that a success story.

The reason I remember the story is that the customer hit the floor when the lead started flying, and apparently bent the trigger guard on his gun so the trigger wouldn't move. He stayed in the fight by slipfiring.

 

[Real Gun]

There is nothing that would disqualify the single action from concealed carry except, on a personal basis, its typical size and ones ability to holster and conceal it. Kind of amusing to read those trying to bulldoze the topic, while a 5-shot 38 Special with toned down ammo and no reload, somewhere stuck in a pocket, is the Holy Grail of concealed carry.

 

[Model12Win]

I think there's not much wrong with it, really.

We all know the old adage, "it's the Indian, not the arrow".

Have you seen what some of those CAS people can do with a single action revolver?? Look, it might not have the capacity or reload speed that some desire, and it probably is not a good choice for a lawman (they must run toward danger, you know), but in my readings and analysis of statistics on civilian self defense shooting, I have come to think someone such as member Bob Wright who posted above or anyone else hear that is well versed with the single action revolver and "knows their ways" is very well armed.

You can't beat the reliability, they can be extremely accurate, with a quick thumb they can be fired nearly as fast as a double action, and they have the advantages of different power levels and bullet profiles inherent in all revolvers. Some wickedly good .45 Colt defensive loads these days, or count that for any centerfire caliber that can in a single action be had. 5 shots in a classic SAA or 6 in a Ruger are more than enough in most cases, going by the numbers.

So if it works for the carrier, and they've got the skill set to use it with effectiveness, they are MUCH better armed than the man without any gun and will probably be fine with them and they have as much my respect as any other responsible and legal carrier.

 

[Sharkbite]

5-shot 38 Special with toned down ammo and no reload, somewhere stuck in a pocket, is the Holy Grail of concealed carry.

Not by anyone i know (or that takes the topic seriously)

 

[pete2]

I would carry the new .327 Ruger SA , funds don't allow it at the moment. Every carry gun doesn't have to hold 18 rounds and be made of plastic.
I don't carry a handgun to get me out of a fire fight. In a fire fight with multiple attackers you need a machine gun.

 

[tallball]

I am middle-aged. I have probably shot more rounds through SA revolvers than any other kind of firearm. I generally shoot them better than any other kind of handgun. I don't CC them because I prefer a DA revolver in case of being suddenly grabbed in a mugging attempt.

However, I certainly wouldn't feel unarmed if carrying one.

 

[Paul105]

"For years my main load in the Colt look-a-likes for the 45, was 18+ grains of Herc 2400 under the Keith 260 grain cast bullet. I took wild boar, feral pigs, black bear, deer, feral dogs, and much, much more, with that load. I ran into the darndest situation in Richmond Virginia while packing that first 45 Colt clone in the early 1970s. Three idiots decided to hold up the bank I was in one day. Three shots from my 45 single action later, hold up was over, surrender was at the top of their list...and I had killed their car. Thinking back I never felt under gunned...and I never worried about reloading speed and all that stuff you read about. I knew the power of that load, and my ability and accuracy."

Paco Kelly - Special Handguns I Have Known
http://leverguns.com/articles/paco/special_handguns.htm

 

[Hawg]

I've noticed that guys who shoot single actions tend to shoot them a lot, as in ALOT. There are folks here who have round counts in the tens of thousands per firearm. All single actions. How many can come even close with their pocket pistols? Not many.

I started shooting SA's in 1967. I have shot many of them a lot more than a lot. I only own two DA revolvers and I can count the times they've both been fired DA on one hand with fingers left over. I have one semi auto. I've only had it for about six years and have probably only put 5000 rounds or so through it. It is my first choice for carry but I would be right at home and not feel under gunned with a SA.

 

[The Kingfish]

I'll bet some of the folks commenting have never seen Bob Munden.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsU5AMxvlKg

 

[NateKirk]

There's a difference between target and competition shooting and defensive shooting.

 

[warnerwh]

In 98% of defensive situations 6 rounds is more than enough. I'm far more confident with a revolver than a semi however I carry a Glock 43 not because it holds more rounds and is faster to reload but because it is slim and light. With a 5 shot .357 I would actually feel more confident with but they are too bulky for me as I'm smaller than average and need the slimness of a semi auto. If I need to shoot though I'd rather have a revolver in my hands.
I can certainly understand someone being most confident with a single action and more likely to make good hits too, something most people with semi autos aren't great at. I am referring to the average people on the streets that carry not people here who shoot thousands of rounds a year. Bad guys fall into that unskilled category too.

 

[briandg]

I'm not Bob Mundon, nobody but Bob mundon is Bob mundon. he can put genuine rounds out in less time than it takes my glock to cycle.

The experience can do it quicker than a goon with his high point, not me, if some cannot put a round in the belly in the time it takes for a goon to pull the trigger accurately, the single action is a viable choice. Otherwise, the defender needs to look elsewhere at something that we can deploy more rapidly, or practice. I believe that an saa style can be just as fast if you have naked leather and the shooter is really good. Otherwise, for people with ordinary performance will almost certainly be quicker in their ability to draw and fire accurately with any other gun.

To me, that sums up everything. Can you deploy and use in less time than one or maybe two goons can pull the trigger of a gun that is pointed at you? Carry whatever you can do so with.. Otherwise, its just not smart.

Just carry whatever you can effectively deploy faster and accurately, and your gun will be good enough. Being personally good enough to do so while out to dinner is a matter of training, and if the carrier can't perform better than an alternative gun, under non-paper circumstances, that too is kinda dumb.

 

[Wyosmith]

Ok, this thread has gone on for 4 pages and there are lots of points made. Many of them good points.

But the bottom line is that most gun-buffs get very concentrated on guns and gear (which not not a bad thing) but forget that in any fight the victory will go to the better fighter no mater what tools he has. You can't beat good luck and get around bad luck, but you can't make luck. You CAN make skill and you should.

In most cases of defense outside of open warfare where you are facing a lot of enemies at one time, a SA revolver is going to be just as good as an high capacity auto if the shooter knows how to move and has a high degree of skill as a marksman, because in the largest percentage of shootings, the first hit determines who's going to win. Not all, but those cases where the one hit first still wins are usually the same cases where the better warrior is unlucky and gets hit first, but because he's got the skills and the MINDSET he still wins.

Like so many posts here, in fact most of them, the focus is on the gun and not on the man. This is the wrong mindset. Focus on the man and learn to fight. In fights shooting is about 2% of the equation. 98% is the man, using cover, concealment and movement correctly. It's like hunting. The bullet in in flight only a short fraction of a second for most hunts but you may spend the whole day using concealment and movement to get the shot. Fighting is just like that! It's the hunter that makes the difference, not his super modern fancy gun.

Just consider this:
Many men, myself included, have killed many head of game with revolvers I have done so with SA revolvers about 14 times, and DA revolvers about 25 more.
I have never fired 2 shots at any game with a SA revolver. Not one time! Every time I have fired at a deer, elk bear or buffalo I killed it with one shot. 100% of the time so far.
Why would shooting an enemy be any different if my tactics are good?

I am not going to be blazing away at someone who has a "better" gun and exchanging fire if I use my tactics correctly. I am going to seek cover and conceal myself and wait for my opportunity. I'd do the same if I had as SA Colt 45 or an AK 47, or anything else for that matter. If I use combat tactics correctly I should shoot 1 shot per bad guy.

Is that delusional?

Not near as much as TV and "experts" seem to tell you. In fact, in real fights that's USUALLY the way it works if one man has the training he should have and the other doesn't.

The blazing shootouts fall into 2 categories.

#1 bad luck (again no training can deliver you from this and your weapon will not matter. Hathcock has a large bounty on his head in Vietnam and the NVA could not collect it but the AmTrack he was riding on hit a mine. There is no defense from bad luck.

#2 combatants on both sides that don't understand how to fight. This is pretty common.

In the cases, nearly ALL the cases, where one combatant is well trained and skilled at shooting you will not hear much. Why? Because the skilled man ended it in a VERY short time and fired very few shots.

This is far more common than you think. But gets very little press coverage.
Even in open warfare, this kind of action is not uncommon and it ends fast.

Would I choose a SA revolver as my standard carry. No. But I am quite skilled with my SA Ruger and I am sure that I could,m should I desire to. It's large and fairly heavy and I have more compact guns so I do not carry my SA as my day to day gun. But not because it would be sub-standard in a fight.

In police work or military deployments I would never choose an SA because I EXPECT to fight and because I EXPECT to fight more than 1 man at the same time. When I was a Marine I carried a 1911A1 and when I worked for DOD I carried a S&W M58 when I was sent to central and south America.

I could reload the S&W far faster than I can reload my Ruger Super Blackhawk, but in the cases where I needed to reload (3 of them) I had time to do so and I only had loose rounds in my right front pants pocket. I am 100% sure in those cases, if I'd had my SA revolver, I would have been just fine.

For my life as a civilian I would have no gripes about my SA other than it's size. Many other guns are "better' because in a few cases the slow reload is going to be a danger, but those cases are actually fairly rare in civilian life. I do carry "better" guns, but the idea that a man with a SA is "unarmed" is the idea of a fool.

 

[croberts]

Before anyone extolls the virtues of one handgun type over another for CCW, he or she would be well advised to try one out in realistic defensive pistol shooing. I do not mean firing at a target at seven yards or more and evaluating group size. I mean drawing and shooting as quickly as possible to achieve combat accuracy at realistic defensive ranges. Say, drawing in a second and a half and putting three to five rounds in another second or two into an area the size of an upper chest at distances varying from about ten feet to, say, fifteen feet.

Repeatedly, with targets in different locations not known in advance to the defender.

And then, to use it in some realistic FoF training.

One who may have "felt comfortable" with some firearm or other may be in for an eyeopening experience.

I'm going to try this and get back to you.

 

[Real Gun]

I think it should be noted that the thread was quickly hijacked to make it about pro or con, not the OP's topic.

"OK, I know all the reasons to NOT use a single action revolver as your concealed carry. So please don't go there. I'd like to hear success stories about ccw with a single action. How do you carry, what kind of holster, where did you get the holster, how do you manage reloads? Etc. I know some of you open carry a single action, and that's cool. But only looking for concealed carry ideas right now. Thanks. "

 

[ThomasT]

Reteach you started an interesting thread. The problem I see with a single action for concealed carry is not shot capacity but that most have at least a 4" barrel (not talking NAA guns) and big cylinders. Its hard to stick one in your pocket like a 5 shot snubby.

But N Frame S&W guns have the same problem. Too big for pocket carry. Put it on a belt and you can carry about anything. But you need a coat or an untucked shirt to cover it. IIRC it was an old lawman of El Paso, Dallas Stoudemire had leather pockets sewn into his pants and carried his single actions in that manner.

I won't get into wheather a slow to reload SA is acceptable for SD use. Thats already been talked about.