CBD Oil & Cream And Firearms Ownership ??

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JohnKSa

Administrator
It's not an issue of making it illegal.

1. It is still illegal in at least two states if it contains detectable amounts of THC.

2. If it is produced improperly, the product can be illegal even if it appears to be legal. For example, if it turns out to have been produced from marijuana plants instead of hemp plants, it is illegal even if it doesn't contain THC.

3. It is illegal if it contains too much THC which, according to multiple sources can happen easily.

Again, I don't see CBD as being a huge risk factor, but it does have the potential to cause some real legal problems, especially for people who might be drug tested.

Dismissing it as fantasy isn't wise. Understanding the issues that surround the topic is a much more prudent approach and will likely keep a person from running into trouble even if they do choose to use CBD.
 

HiBC

New member
I prefer to leave the activities of the 20th Century in the 20th Century.
Suffice it to say,I found it necessary to exercise adult choice making.
My employer announced that my machinist job was in a hazardous environment.
It also was true the parent corporation that owned my employer developed some very sensitive technology during Desert Storm for detecting trace chemical agents on the battlefield.
That technology was applied to reading a persons drug use history as it is stored in a strand of hair.

It was a good job and I was living the American Dream. There was a fork in the road and I took it. I'm not interested in going back.

I value my RTKBA . I take the 4473 seriously.

However,I was in high school in the late 1960's. Graduated in 1970. I live in a university town in Colorado.

My opinions and comments on cannabis are reasonably well informed.


I'm fairly neutral on personal pot use,from a semi- libertarian point of view.
But I'm not a proponent. The rosy picture pot advocates portray with all their talking points and 22 year old "experts" is a bunch of BS,IMO.

I know individuals who lost their touch with reality after long term regular use of pot.
Paranoid schizophrenia is a life altering tragedy...and yeah,No! Guns aren't a good idea.
Others just wasted their years and fortunes smoking dope,eating Cheetos,and listening to Cheech and Chong,or Pink Floyd,or playing Dungeons and Dragons. None of those are bad.

But these folks did not realize their potential.

Now schools are funded by pot. Teachers Unions have stretched HIPPA laws to pretty much eliminate drug testing.
Its not unusual for Colorado teachers to "give themselves a tune up" during working hours.
Does anyone really think middle school kids are too stupid to figure it out?

Not only that,Mommy,or Daddy,or Mommy and Daddy,or any number of other family compositions are getting high at home.

What will we learn in 25 years about kids who have been stoned since 11 yrs old?

It is what it is. States are realizing billions of dollars in revenue for dealing the drugs they used to put us in jail for.They will take the money. Its not going away.

But the point of this post is not the merits of the products.

The OP is asking a question to take care of himself. How to deal with what IS.

You do what you want. I think the policy transmitted to the military and Federal employees is a valuable clue.

It compromises credibility to sweep that policy under the rug
 
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nstoolman1

New member
Why doesn't someone who uses it now, go in and buy a drug kit and test themselves? See what the results are. If negative let us know through a third party. If positive do the same.
 

JohnKSa

Administrator
That wouldn't tell you much. Even if it has no THC at all, if it was made from marijuana plants rather than hemp plants, it's illegal per current federal law.

I'm not saying that it's likely someone would get caught in that case, just pointing out that right now the laws are a mess and no one knows how enforcement/prosecution will be handled.

In my opinion, it would be smart to give things a chance to settle down, give the laws a chance to get hammered out, watch for some enforcement and prosecution to get a feel for how things will be handled.
 

HiBC

New member
JohnKSa,just to add to the chaos

How is cannabis sativa different from cannabis sativa ?

Hemp is cannabis sativa. Marijuana is cannabis sativa.
 

JohnKSa

Administrator
Yup, it's a mess. There's a legal definition that separates Hemp from Marijuana, but the reality is that even if you start out with Hemp (according to the legal definition) you may end up with Marijuana (according to the legal definition) by the time it's ready to harvest.
 

bill460

New member
Yup, it's a mess.

Which is why no District Attorney or prosecutor would touch it with a 10 foot pole. They would end up spending tens of thousands of dollars or more, on what amounts to a frivolous, unwinnable case. Not to mention it would go totally against public opinion. Especially today, with all of the nonsense going on in the world that actually needs legal and financial action.

Most cities, counties, and states don't have enough taxpayer money to keep the pot holes filled in their roads, or the rust and corrosion on their bridges painted. Or keep their schools open. Let alone have enough to waste on this kind of meaningless crap.

In a way I wish it would happen to some rich, high profile type, with money to burn, and nothing but time on his hands. It would get a lot of press and attention, and it's doubtful when it was all over there would be any type of conviction. Because the laws as they stand are so completely convoluted.

They made this entire mess, (or else allowed it to develop), by combining all of these ridiculous, "legalization laws", that accomplish nothing but contradict Federal laws. All creating a tangled up legal mess that Clarence Darrow could not sort out.
 

HiBC

New member
Which is why no District Attorney or prosecutor would touch it with a 10 foot pole.

I have not studied law.I'm not a lawyer. I might be wrong. But I'll try.

There s a certain amount of twisting that goes on to weasel an interpretation from a law that was never intended by the author(s) .The commerce cause comes to mind.
And bureaucratic agencies are given the power to make regulations with force of law.
Congress passes thousand page laws...or 3000 page laws without reading them,and Governors and Presidents sign them.

How many pages in the Constitution?

With this sort of malpractice,no wonder such bungles occur. Add to that a Supreme Court confused about their role ( Activism and re-engineering society...the more Narcissist role,IMO,or staying in their lane...reading and applying the Constitution)

AS things stand right now,the States may pass laws declaring the State will not prosecute marijuana laws. OK.

But hold on. If the Fed Gov't has controlled substance law which makes pot unlawful, it does not matter if the states decline to prosecute pot laws,it does not become lawful. Its still a Federal violation.

Federal Firearms law has provisions that include controlled substances.

In these cases,state marijuana laws are irrelevant. A pot legal state does not change criminal liability for Federal Firearms/controlled substance/prohibited person felonies.


Proceed at your own risk.

As far as passing drug tests,a trafficker is not necessarily a user. A trafficker might get busted for multiple felonies while still being able to pass a drug test.
 

5whiskey

New member
Which is why no District Attorney or prosecutor would touch it with a 10 foot pole. They would end up spending tens of thousands of dollars or more, on what amounts to a frivolous, unwinnable case. Not to mention it would go totally against public opinion. Especially today, with all of the nonsense going on in the world that actually needs legal and financial action.

Well, I don't fully disagree with you that most prosecutors would see that for the can of worms that it is. But... that's poor advice to broadcast wholesale nationwide. In general, the feds far under-prosecute lies on the 4473 in the first place. And I don't mean for petty stuff like confusing CBD users, I mean for people who indicate they are not under indictment when they are (among other things).

The advent of the CBD industry has thrown a grenade into a lot of the laws on the books, both at the state and federal level. I am of the opinion that, for the sake of clarity, marijuana will have to be de-scheduled eventually. The .3% or less THC products that are now legal in most jurisdictions look, smell, and feel identical to stoner dope. I live in a state that has exempted CBD products so long as they contain less than .3% CBD. Since allowing that, a number of herbal wellness businesses have sprung up. Many of them are looking to legitimately expand into this newly legal market and comply with all laws (legal compliance in this arena is somewhat of a bear right now in my state). Many others are looking for a nice legal looking front to run a glorified head shop, banking on the plausible deniability of not "intentionally" selling illicit drugs. The difference between the two is not always so obvious.

Products include hemp flower, most of which is compliant with the .3% or less rule. Some of it is not, however. It looks, smells, and feels just like marijuana bud. Most shops give their customer a little slip of paper noting that it is a legally compliant CBD product to present to the police if it is ever found. As you can imagine, this doesn't work with all police. As you can also imagine, the packaging and legal compliance pamphlet often accompanies marijuana with THC to try and fool police.

On top of all of this, many well meaning shop owners who strive to comply with the legalities must be very careful and strict as to where they source their product from. Many products advertise as being CBD only, when in fact they have THC levels WAY over the limit. Something tells me there is some underground knowledge as to which brands misrepresent, and these brands misrepresent purposefully. Some shop owners who are less into the "high seeking" culture may purchase wholesale amounts of this illicit product believing it to be in compliance with the law, when it is not. If they are ever investigated or the product is tested, the excuse "I didn't know, and it was advertised as legal" may not prevent them being criminally charged. Even though they may not be convicted, they will spend time, money, and hassle going through the legal system.

This has a plethora of affects on many laws, including the prohibition on possession of firearms while being an illegal drug user. Drug tests typically do not get reported to NICS or any other LEO agency, unless you work for one or are on probation. If it's the latter, you likely can't possess a firearm legally anyway. At any rate, I am of the opinion that the marijuana plant needs to be either entirely legal or entirely illegal for the sake of clarity. This halfway stuff makes legalities surrounding it a mess. Which is why I believe the OPs question can't be answered for 100% positive. I don't think a prosecutor would ride to the gates of hell to prosecute you for possessing a firearm while using CBD products with .4% THC instead of .3%. But I can't promise that. This is legal issues that cannot be predicted with certainty across all jurisdictions. You also cannot count on lack of public support in every jurisdiction. Older active churchgoers in rural Southern areas will likely see anything that looks like marijuana as still being the "devil's lettuce," so if they wind up on the jury all bets of instantly winning is off.

All of this, but I still think there is like a .01% chance of getting in legal trouble coupling CBD products with firearms. But I think there is a chance.
 
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bill460

New member
I can agree with most everything you have said. When laws are not clear and concise, and are left up to extreme interpretation, it usually results in a legal mess that quickly grows out of proportion.
 

JohnKSa

Administrator
Laws should be easy to understand and enforce. Otherwise they are a form of persecution--whether that's the explicit intent or not.
 

HiBC

New member
I have read that between RFK and J Edgar Hoover the desire to "Get something on this guy" led to some very invasive surveillance on Martin Luther King.

Bad law often remains on the books simply through apathy. There has been so much bad law written those who would have to purge it are making other priorities or are just lazy.

We settle for "No one has been prosecuted under that law since....the Civil War?"

Yet the law remains on the books.

Discretionary prosecution becomes discretionary persecution when it is driven by politics,or grudge,or agenda or hate.

And these do happen. Note the firing of some FBI officials and matters yet to come.

The best way to get rid of bad law is to universally enforce it...on everyone.

Imagine a weekly random drug and alcohol UAI for Congress. Suppose you'd find any coke users? Should they have the power,the salary,perks and pension? And gun permit? Why do we let them get away with it?
 
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JohnKSa

Administrator
Discretionary prosecution becomes discretionary persecution when it is driven by politics,or grudge,or agenda or hate.

...

The best way to get rid of bad law is to universally enforce it...on everyone.
Well said. I would add that regardless of the motive behind discretionary prosecution it's just plain wrong.
 
There was an anti-fortunetelling law in Connecticut a number of years ago. I was there at the time, married to wife v.2. A couple of nice young ladies who ran a new age book store wanted to put on a psychic fair, and the cops in their town told them if they did so they would be arrested under this law.

They cancelled the fair, but the started a movement to repeal the law. It turned out that the law had been on the books for over eighty years. In that time, there had been ONE prosecution under that law. That was only a year or two prior to the ill-fated psychic fair, and that case was throown out of court when the defense showed the judge that neither the police nor the prosecution even understood what the law said. A year after the psychic fair incident the law was quietly repealed.

My great-grandfather was a professor of law. I was brought up with the understanding that laws which are enforced sporadically and/or capriciously are worse than no laws at all, because selective prosecution results in universal disrespect for the rule of law.
 

langenc

New member
I rfecall seeing offers to 'get in on the ground floor' or some such for big profits.

I also see offers for the one oz dropper bottle--$50 if you buy one gets down to about 35 if you buy 4 or 5 bottles.

Ive read where some high power politicians have socked lots of $$ into marketing the stuff.. BS ?? maybe. Looks like it is profitable. Wonder how many of the profiteers are bellyaching about big pharma making BILLIONS?
 

44 AMP

Staff
There was an anti-fortunetelling law in Connecticut a number of years ago.

probably something put on the books to combat fraud. Bet it was only a crime if you charged money for it...still, One prosecution in 80 years and that one thrown out means the law is worse than useless.

I did go to psychic, one time, may years ago. I don't think she was a very good one, though. She took my CHECK! :D:rolleyes:
 
You bring up an interesting point. There’s not as much information out there about the legality of using CBD products as there is for marijuana users.
 

stagpanther

New member
The way I look at it--regardless of amount, what it's in etc and so on it remains under federal schedule 1 control. I personally would like to try CBD with a bit of THC in it for real chronic Lyme treatment. But I won't risk it as long as I have my firearms. CBD use probably a lot less of a health risk than alcohol consumption IMO.
 
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