CBD Oil & Cream And Firearms Ownership ??

[JohnKSa]

CBD products are being sold openly on shelves and over the "net" almost everywhere now, so clearly its not illegal, at this time.

It appears that it is possible for CBD products to be legal. It also appears that there is very little way for the end user to know for certain if a particular CBD product is legal or not.

The fact that they are being sold openly, the fact that the grower and seller have tried to comply with the various regulations doesn't appear to guarantee that the product will be legal.

At this time, if you are concerned about following the law, it would be best to hold off on purchasing/using CBD products until the laws are straightened out so that there's less confusion.

This is the "poppy seed" argument.

It's a lot more complicated than that. Start by reading the articles in the two links I provided above.

 

[Mike38]

Full Spectrum CBD oil can and usually does contain 0.3% THC. Which can and usually does show up on a drug test. You have the right to contest the drug test, and they will retest with more sensitive tests that will show content of less than 0.3%. According to any information I have researched, that level or below is considered acceptable even to the federal government.

Broad Spectrum CBD oil contains 0.0% THC, and the stuff still works every bit as good as Full Specrum, for me anyhow.

Isolate CBD oil also contains 0.0% THC, but that stuff doesn't help me a bit.

Yes, CBD oil works, but the good stuff, which is what people should only consider taking, will cost about $100 a month to use. The cheap stuff, that you will find at gas stations and on ebay, gives me serious headaches. Buy only from a reputable source that provides third party test results.

Note: Do not take my word for any of this. Please do your own research.

 

[laytonj1]

Does that mean poppy seeds are illegal too? They can give a a positive result for opiates if the testing is strict enough.

Seems equivalent to me. Neither gets you high. Both give false positives for drug tests.

On an episode of Myth Busters they found that the amount of poppy seeds you would need to consume to regularly test positive can give you a “high”.

Jim

 

[bill460]

On an episode of Myth Busters they found that the amount of poppy seeds you would need to consume to regularly test positive can give you a “high”.

Some years back we had a guy working at our place, who failed a random drug test because of eating 2 poppy seed breakfast Croissants. They tested him 3 days later and he passed. This guy WAS NOT a Marijuana user. I have no idea how many seeds he consumed. But I doubt he got "high" from them.

 

[JohnKSa]

Full Spectrum CBD oil can and usually does contain 0.3% THC. Which can and usually does show up on a drug test. You have the right to contest the drug test, and they will retest with more sensitive tests that will show content of less than 0.3%. According to any information I have researched, that level or below is considered acceptable even to the federal government.

The legal issues go beyond the possibility of a false positive on a test. That's what makes this different from eating poppyseed.

Poppyseed is perfectly legal. There's absolutely no question about it. No confusion, no possibility that you accidentally ate illegal poppyseed.

In this case, the CBD product (even though it's sold openly and even though the grower, seller and consumer might all believe they are complying with the law) might actually be illegal based on circumstances that the consumer is unlikely to be able to control, or determine.

 

[bill460]

What is happening now is simply a LOT of mass speculation. As far as I know, there have been no charges or cases brought forward against ANY firearms owner, challenging their right to firearms ownership, due to the use of CBD products. Be it oil, cream, or whatever.

Until this gets a run through the legal system, (assuming it ever does), it is nothing but speculation. I somehow doubt it ever will. Like it or not, Marijuana laws are becoming more progressive with every election. (Starting today Marijuana is legal in Illinois). With more states following suit all the time.

It's only a matter of time before the Federal Government is going to cave on the legality of Marijuana. Because right now it is a Federal Law with no teeth. In spite of the fact Marijuana is currently illegal at the Federal level. I can't think of one state that has had the Feds, (read DEA), come into their state, and start busting Marijuana sellers, and their customers. Which they have "legalized" with decriminalization laws, or by issuing, "Medical Marijuana Cards".

And it is very doubtful they ever will. For one thing it would be political suicide. Because it goes against public polling on the subject. It is basically a TU*D no one wants to stir, because it's only going to create a stink no one wants to smell.... Especially during a Presidential election year.

 

[JohnKSa]

What is happening now is simply a LOT of mass speculation. As far as I know, there have been no charges or cases brought forward against ANY firearms owner, challenging their right to firearms ownership, due to the use of CBD products. Be it oil, cream, or whatever.

1. Just to be clear, I don't believe that there's much chance of being prosecuted for CBD use. Those who are drug-tested as a condition of their job, or perhaps as a legal requirement due to some judgement could potentially get into a mess over this, but in general, prosecution seems very unlikely.

That's why I've tried to make it clear I'm talking about people who are concerned about following the law. If the concern isn't following the law, but just whether or not you will be prosecuted, I think that simplifies things tremendously.

2. Looking for prosecutions of gunowners as the evidence of potential legal pitfalls is problematic in a situation where there have been recent changes to the law. Even if the government does decide to pursue such prosecutions, it would be awhile before that information became available and we could then use it as a roadmap for what can happen.

3. There certainly is a lot of speculation, but there is also some pretty decent information available on the topic. The presence of speculation shouldn't cause us to dismiss the actual evidence that is available.

At this time, it does appear that there are potential legal issues that can arise from CBD use. To complicate the situation, it also appears that it can be quite difficult for a consumer to determine if their CBD product and the usage of it is legal or illegal since the legality hinges on circumstances that are not readily apparent to the user.

If you don't care about following the law and you aren't in a position where you are likely to be drug tested, then this is probably a much simpler question for you to answer.

If you are concerned with following the law or are in a situation where drug-testing is possible, it would be much wiser to hold off on CBD use until the laws are clearer and there is some idea of how the enforcement will be handled.

 

[Henry400]

CBD oil is markedly different than marijuana. There is no script required, and it is not something to be concerned with on a 4473. With that being said, The manufacture, distribution, and sales of CBD oils are not regulated, so you really need to be concerned about the purity and content of the product. CBD is supposed to come from hemp, not marijuana. While they typically only have a small fraction of a percentage of THC, it is possible, if they aren't concerned with purity, that the oil could have higher levels, which may lead to issues in testing. You have said that testing is moot, as you are retired. My main concern would be quality, purity, and consistency of product. With that all being said, I don't use it.

 

[HiBC]

I don't claim to know the answer.

I don't use any of it..

People get high with both cannabis sativa and cannabis indica Genus is cannabis,species is indica or sativa Both are controlled substances. .The actual plant is identified by genus and species.

When I look it up,many of the results differentiate between hemp and marijuana .The "internet information" overwhelmingly says hemp and marijuana are "different" OK. Its often repeated.

Folks say the difference is THC levels. OK.

Growing conditions can effect how much sugar is in an apple or ear of corn,but the plant is the same genus and species.

I have no doubt that some seeds,under the right conditions, have the potential to produce get-you-high pot,and some seeds produce mostly rope

There are male plants and female plants. The female plants produce the most THC. The most THC is in the flower tops. Sexual frustration has something to do with higher THC production. If male pollen reaches the flower,it goes to seed. Pot growers diligently clip off male flower tops to prevent pollination.

Waterng levels,light wave lengths,etc are manipulated to make higher THC levels

But before you tellme they are "different"......stoner dope and rope come from the same plant ; genus cannabis,species sativa

 

[bill460]

But before you tell me they are "different"......Stoner dope and rope come from the same plant ; genus cannabis,species sativa

This is true. And from a legal standpoint, can anyone prove that the ATF, along with other Federal agencies, do not look at it in the same way?

 

[BBarn]

Looks like the controlled substance list includes marijuana and marijuana extracts. However I didn't see any listing for Cannabis or Hemp. So they seem to have made (perhaps inadvertantly) a distinction between the sub-species. Add to that a now legal way for farmers to raise Hemp.

But there remains a risk for individuals since the feds might charge you with marijuana use and expect you to prove it was hemp or a non-THC cannabinoid product. In other words, guilty unless proven innocent.

 

[bill460]

.... Add to that a now legal way for farmers to raise Hemp......

And that is where it gets confusing, as well as almost impossible to distinguish from a legal standpoint. How can one law be deciphered as legal for one person, (farmers to grow it). And at the same time be illegal for another person, (firearm owners to use it)?

And remember, this was made legal for the farmers at the Federal level, by the Department Of Agriculture. The same applies to firearms law regarding Marijuana, hemp, or whatever.

The problem is not that a gun owner would not prevail in a court case. But as always, they would most likely be bankrupted trying.

 

[mehavey]

False Logic/Dilemma

- Is it OK to use a mind-altering substance? (NOW) we've decided that it is.
- Is it wise policy that such Users be given access to guns ? We continue to say probably not.

Apples & Oranges
Legal ≠ Wise

 

[bill460]

......Is it OK to use a mind-altering substance? (NOW) we've decided that it is. Is it wise policy that such Users be given access to guns ? We continue to say probably not.

Your entire analysis is nothing but, "Apples & Oranges". Because CBD Oil is not a, "mind altering substance". And it never has been.

 

[mehavey]

"CBD" (in deliberate quotes) contains elements that can/are picked up on drug tests being identified as THC

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Legally, CBD products should only be produced from hemp plants with no more than 0.3% THC.
But there's no way for consumers to know for sure what's in the products they buy.

A 2017 study found that about seven out of 10 CBD products did not contain the amount of
cannabidiol stated on the label. And about one in five contained THC. A false-positive on a
drug test could have implications for people at work, and in their medical care.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That being the case, you are then bassackwards in the presumption of non-use/innocence if you fail an initial drug screen.
And if the State's involved in that drug test -- for whatever reason -- you're in a climb-out-of-the-pit situation if/when on the State's CCW list.
You are assumed a User of Mind-Altering-Substance until proven otherwise.

Send any objections to this guy's lawyer....
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/afflue...ation-violation-is-questioned-today-2020-1-2/


.

 

[bill460]

When you buy CBD Oil you have a choice. Many have 0% THC. Others are labeled accordingly up to 0.3%. You will not "get high" regardless of how much you take. It is not an intoxicant.

You do not need any type of prescription, "card", or license to purchase it. You can buy the stuff at hardware stores and gas stations. The same as you would light bulbs or windshield washer fluid. You can fail a drug test by ingesting Poppy Seeds from a Breakfast Croissant. I've seen it happen.

No one was fired or arrested. The guy was retested 3 days later and passed. CBD Oil would be no different. You're trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, except you have no dirt.

 

[mehavey]

Throw that dirt into the wind, then and hope the wind doesn't blow it back at you.
If it does, and until you can wash it off, you're in limbo... at best.

I've never been too fond of Russian roulette -- even if the box is ...labeled ... "blanks."

 

[bill460]

This is always the trouble when you bring up these type of topics for discussion. Reality, along with common sense soon departs, and fantasy takes over. And your argument is all fantasy, because no one has ever lost their firearms over possessing or using CBD Oil.

Could they? Perhaps. But until anyone does it's all as I said....... Fantasy, and nothing more.

The Asteroid could hit at anytime as well. Are you going to worry about that? You should because the chances of it hitting are better than you or I losing our firearms from using CBD Oil.

 

[JohnKSa]

Because CBD Oil is not a, "mind altering substance". And it never has been.

If made properly it won't get you high, but it is "psychoactive". http://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/...o+Set+The+Record+Straight+CBD+Is+Psychoactive

So it's probably accurate to say that it is a "mind altering substance" while it is also accurate to say that it is not an intoxicant.

When you buy CBD Oil you have a choice.

Assuming it is made and labeled properly. This is one of the problems. According to one of the articles I provided earlier, independent testing of CBD products often reveals "surprises". And those surprises could make the product illegal in spite of the best efforts of the producer and the consumer. That would make its use illegal as well.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/is-cbd-legal-heres-what-you-need-to-know-according-to-science

That's what can make CBD products different from poppyseed. You can't accidentally buy illegal poppyseed, but you could buy a CBD product that was illegal.

You do not need any type of prescription, "card", or license to purchase it.

You do in some states. Furthermore, if it contains any THC at all, it is illegal in LA. In TX, possessing it if it has any detectable amounts of THC is a felony--which would disqualify a person from owning firearms.

Could they? Perhaps. But until anyone does it's all as I said....... Fantasy, and nothing more.

I think it's probably safe to say that no one has lost their guns because of CBD products. However, I think it's a mistake to conclude that it couldn't happen, that it's fantasy. The fact that it hasn't happened yet has a lot to do with the fact that "legal" CBD products have only been widely available for a very short time.

We won't know if it's "fantasy" or not until there's been enough time to see how enforcement and prosecution are going to be handled.

It seems that some people have already made up their minds about this topic, but for those who are actually interested in finding out the truth, there's some good information out there.

https://plantpeople.co/cbd-legal-states/

 

[bill460]

It, (CBD Oil), has gotten too big of a foothold in the market to call it back now. More are buying into it every day. Plus, once again it would be political suicide for the party who decided to ban it. Too many people depend on it for non narcotic pain relief.

Make it illegal at the height of an opioid epidemic in this country, and you won't be in office very long. Again, could it happen? Yes. But so can the Asteroid.