Rangerrich99
New member
Ah, well, and there you go. Exactly why I said what I said in the first place.
Peace.
Peace.
Bug-out bag gun
- Thread starter simonrichter
- Start date
carguychris
New member
That's basically where I was going with my earlier question about old Winchester .22's.Hal said:
The Winchester Model 67 single-shot was sold as a "Boy's Rifle" with a shorter barrel and stock, and with the barrel removed, it's nearly as small as a purpose-built takedown. The Chipmunk and the Cricket are basically knockoffs of the Winchester M67 Boy's Rifle. A Beretta 950 Minx is a similar possibility, although it's chambered in .22 Short rather than .22LR.RX-79G said:
Sabrewolfe
New member
I have to vote for something in line with the Savage Model 24/42, preferably the .22WMR/410 combo. Definitely not a ZA gun, but otherwise an excellent utility piece for a bugout kit.
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simonrichter
New member
First of all, thank you all for your contributions.
Generally, I need something that literally fits INSIDE my backpack. Openly carrying a rifle does not seem advisable in said situation, since it again adds to the weight and draws unwanted attention (Even more, I would have to reach my place in the mountains by foot).
As far as the purpose is concerned, it is surely not primarily for self defense, but more in the style of an "all-round, better-than-a-stick" option for the unlikely case that the situation shifts in whatever way that makes you want to have more than a knife among your assets.
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the Austrian law says: "every rifle or shotgun that can be quickly disassembled in a way that exceeds the means commonly used for sporting and hunting" This leaves the ministry of the interior a lot of room for interpretation. In any case, normal length hunting rifles that can be disassembled with a screw are OK, while the often mentioned AR-7 is definitely out.
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Generally, I need something that literally fits INSIDE my backpack. Openly carrying a rifle does not seem advisable in said situation, since it again adds to the weight and draws unwanted attention (Even more, I would have to reach my place in the mountains by foot).
As far as the purpose is concerned, it is surely not primarily for self defense, but more in the style of an "all-round, better-than-a-stick" option for the unlikely case that the situation shifts in whatever way that makes you want to have more than a knife among your assets.
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the Austrian law says: "every rifle or shotgun that can be quickly disassembled in a way that exceeds the means commonly used for sporting and hunting" This leaves the ministry of the interior a lot of room for interpretation. In any case, normal length hunting rifles that can be disassembled with a screw are OK, while the often mentioned AR-7 is definitely out.
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That helps me with my decision and I guess if .22 makes sense, I shall add a pistol to my BOB. I have a PT22 ply which is quite similar but even lighter (poly) than the Beretta. Even more, pistols of this design can also be comfortably used as single shots for using underpowered rounds or snakeshots which do not circle.
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I'm mostly a semi auto shooter, but the gun in my emergency kit is a 3" Ruger SP101. The range of ammo available here in .357/.38 makes it a versatile choice. Light .38 wadcutter target rounds make excellent small game loads, with less meat damage than a hyper .22 hollowpoint. Deer sized game can be taken with appropriate .357 loads at reasonable ranges, and no one disputes the effectiveness of the .357 for defensive purposes. It is currently a non-military caliber, but still very popular and ammo is usually available. The gun is compact enough to carry or pack, but easier to shoot than most lightweight snubbies.
Bug out pistol
Simon, given the restrictions on centerfire handgun cartridges you cite, and the difficulty you perceive with transporting even a .22 rifle, then you are probably correct that a .22 pistol is the most logical choice. However, I would not favor a pistol the size of the Beretta 21 or the comparable Taurus. While I enjoy shooting my Beretta 21, it has serious limits with respect to utility and accuracy - the rudimentary sights and short barrel are problematic. Moreover, the lack of an extractor might be an issue in the event of a misfire. If you are putting it in a backpack, then a larger pistol such as a Ruger 22/45, Buckmark, Beretta Neos, and the like will be a better choice. You might even find a used Beretta 70-series that would be more compact, yet a highly reliable pistol.
Simon, given the restrictions on centerfire handgun cartridges you cite, and the difficulty you perceive with transporting even a .22 rifle, then you are probably correct that a .22 pistol is the most logical choice. However, I would not favor a pistol the size of the Beretta 21 or the comparable Taurus. While I enjoy shooting my Beretta 21, it has serious limits with respect to utility and accuracy - the rudimentary sights and short barrel are problematic. Moreover, the lack of an extractor might be an issue in the event of a misfire. If you are putting it in a backpack, then a larger pistol such as a Ruger 22/45, Buckmark, Beretta Neos, and the like will be a better choice. You might even find a used Beretta 70-series that would be more compact, yet a highly reliable pistol.
simonrichter
New member
Yeah, a less "mouse gun - like" one came to my mind as well; yet the REALLY small size also serves the purpose since it is more likely to actually be taken along rather than being yet designated but sorted out in favor of any other supply or gear. But as far as the ballistic performance is concerned, a bigger one would be better, of course.
Sabrewolfe
New member
Okay, so it has to fit in the backpack, and takedown rifles are out. Hmmmm....
Is .22WMR ammo something you can easily get, or are you stuck with just .22LR? If you can get .22 magnums, a 9 shot revolver like a Taurus Tracker would be a good option. If .22LR is your best option, I would go with a Ruger MkIII.
Is .22WMR ammo something you can easily get, or are you stuck with just .22LR? If you can get .22 magnums, a 9 shot revolver like a Taurus Tracker would be a good option. If .22LR is your best option, I would go with a Ruger MkIII.
9ballbilly
New member
IMO the Ruger bearcat .22lr revolver would be worth considering.
PatientWolf
New member
I would probably be looking for something in stainless steel for a back-pack gun. Since you are looking at .22, you might want to look into a Buckmark if you want a semi-automatic or a Ruger SP-101 or Smith and Wesson model 63 if you want a revolver.
Simon,
As you narrow your choices down, you seem to lean toward the 22 pistol because of light weight, availability of ammunition, and the ability to carry the 22 handgun unobtrusively. If you have access to the 22 CB cap ammunition I think it would be worth considering. It is less powerful than regular speed 22 ammunition, but it is very quiet in a 4-inch barrel and silenced in a 6-inch barrel. If you shoot over the top of a squirrel with this ammunition you probably won't alert him. Also, every time you pull the trigger you won't have to think is this shot worth announcing my presence to the world? The 22 CB caps work fine in a revolver, but they won't work the action of a semi-auto. I often use these CB caps to supplement my diet when I don't want to disturb the woods.
As you narrow your choices down, you seem to lean toward the 22 pistol because of light weight, availability of ammunition, and the ability to carry the 22 handgun unobtrusively. If you have access to the 22 CB cap ammunition I think it would be worth considering. It is less powerful than regular speed 22 ammunition, but it is very quiet in a 4-inch barrel and silenced in a 6-inch barrel. If you shoot over the top of a squirrel with this ammunition you probably won't alert him. Also, every time you pull the trigger you won't have to think is this shot worth announcing my presence to the world? The 22 CB caps work fine in a revolver, but they won't work the action of a semi-auto. I often use these CB caps to supplement my diet when I don't want to disturb the woods.
Bill DeShivs
New member
I have never seen a CB cap that was silent from any handgun. Rifles, yes.
simonrichter
New member
The problem is that CB caps would not cycle, of course.
Since I have a tip-up Barrel pistol which I can use in single-shot mode, I have indeed tried something similar to a CB cap ("room training ammunition" which has no charge but only uses the primer to propel the bullet). It is far from silent, though there is a recognizable difference in the sound level compared to a standard or HV load. Surprisingly, the performance isn't much worse.
Since I have a tip-up Barrel pistol which I can use in single-shot mode, I have indeed tried something similar to a CB cap ("room training ammunition" which has no charge but only uses the primer to propel the bullet). It is far from silent, though there is a recognizable difference in the sound level compared to a standard or HV load. Surprisingly, the performance isn't much worse.
Southern Shooter
New member
Rossi M88 .38 Special
I keep an older 5-shot stainless Rossi model 88 .38 Special with a 3" barrel in my bug-out-bag. I found it in a pawn shop and bought it specifically for the purpose of being permanantly stored in my bug-out-bag. I shoot it a couple times a year, clean it, then stash it back in the bag...and, the bag is kept in my truck so it is with me no matter where I go.
Lock-up is tight and it groups well at 15 yards. I believe it would meet most of the basic needs of a BOB gun in a SHTF situation. And, being small carrying it while bugging out it won't draw much attention.
Example:
On a side note, I do have a single-shot Rossi youth size .22LR rifle. If I had the time, it would be easy to toss in a some rounds and, on being broken down, the rifle will slide inside the bug-out-bag. Out to 50 yards it is easy to hit squirrel size objects and it is very light.
Example:
These are not high-end tools. And, they cost less than $300 for the both. But, they have proven themselves to be dependable and within their realm of use, durable.
I keep an older 5-shot stainless Rossi model 88 .38 Special with a 3" barrel in my bug-out-bag. I found it in a pawn shop and bought it specifically for the purpose of being permanantly stored in my bug-out-bag. I shoot it a couple times a year, clean it, then stash it back in the bag...and, the bag is kept in my truck so it is with me no matter where I go.
Lock-up is tight and it groups well at 15 yards. I believe it would meet most of the basic needs of a BOB gun in a SHTF situation. And, being small carrying it while bugging out it won't draw much attention.
Example:
On a side note, I do have a single-shot Rossi youth size .22LR rifle. If I had the time, it would be easy to toss in a some rounds and, on being broken down, the rifle will slide inside the bug-out-bag. Out to 50 yards it is easy to hit squirrel size objects and it is very light.
Example:
These are not high-end tools. And, they cost less than $300 for the both. But, they have proven themselves to be dependable and within their realm of use, durable.
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simonrichter
New member
Have already considered this one, yet it seems to be unavailable on this side of the pond... And I always wonder whether .22 WMR performs so much better then .22lr out of a short pistol barrel...?
Sabrewolfe
New member
With the right loads, yeah, .22WMR does very well even from short barrel weapons.
As an example...
http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=q-cqNCGnx_o&list=PLgNSGOEQko_Nsc-v420zzSSGAIswXxodI
Setting aside special short barrel loads though, as far as pure velocity with basic stuff, out of a 2" snubby there isn't much difference between LR and WMR. Once you hit 4"+, though, the difference is substantial.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html
vs
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html
As an example...
http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=q-cqNCGnx_o&list=PLgNSGOEQko_Nsc-v420zzSSGAIswXxodI
Setting aside special short barrel loads though, as far as pure velocity with basic stuff, out of a 2" snubby there isn't much difference between LR and WMR. Once you hit 4"+, though, the difference is substantial.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html
vs
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html
Brotherbadger
New member
Honestly, you are going to be hard pressed to find any kind of rifle that fits in your bag without breaking it down. Have you thought about adding a Rifle Scabbard to attach to your bag? That way the gun remains out of sight and you don't have to break it down. It adds a bit of weight, but it frees up a bit of space within the bag while allowing you to carry almost any rifle easily. I am personally a fan of the Ruger 10/22 for a bug out gun. It's relatively light, well made and easy to shoot.