Broken Trigger Pin - S&W N frame

[gyvel]

That pin doesn't need to be drilled out. I just did that Model 38 I mentioned about two months ago and that pin drives out from the outside.

If you decide you want to do it yourself:

Find the outline of the pin (it will be very faint), then use a center punch to get it started. Once it starts, then use a regular flat punch to drive it out the rest of the way. It's a very tight press fit, so don't expect it to just slide out.

If you elect to buy the part from Numrich, you will drive the pin back in very carefully so as not to bend the trigger pivot part of it until it seats in the countersunk recess. I used a piece of small tubing the same diameter as the flange. At this point, it will stand proud on the outside and you will need to CAREFULLY file it down to match the contour of the frame and then polish it. If you leave it polished, it will be close to, but not exactly like, the nickel finish.

 

[Dragline45]

I had this happen on a .357 model 60 about 4 years ago. S&W fixed it and sent it back to me no problem.

 

[gyvel]

Actually, if you're unsure of what you're doing, sending it back is the best idea.

 

[g.willikers]

You did read the entire post and all the he got for $350, yes?

There was more to read?
I got stuck at $350.

That pin doesn't need to be drilled out.

Ok, no drill press.
A big hammer instead?

BigJim, are you going to take your wife up on her offer of replacing it?
Of course, that means you will have to break the news to her about not being able to buy any new shoes all next year.

 

[BigJimP]

Yes, I will probably buy another one ...( and trust me, she doesn't really care )... I just spent $ 18K remodeling my gun room / reloading room a few months ago ... she's been very generous about my gun hobby --- but if I find a real clean model 27-2 4" Nickel locally, yes - I'll pick it up...

I just spent the rest of my day....taking every other S&W revolver I own...17 of them I think ...taking side plates off, inspecting pins, cleaning - a little lube...a couple of them I stripped to a bare frame....( just as a precaution - after this mishap with the model 27 ). It was a good day !

$ 350 to fix it would be reasonable....

There are no outlines of any pins showing on my model 27 made in 1981...on the finished Nickel side of the gun / and I'm not going to use a punch to drive them out if they were there...the only S&W I have that shows an outline of pins - is an old Victory Model ( pre model 10 ) purchased in 1946 by an uncle ....they were parkerized and most of the parkerizing has worn off - and the pins are visible ....but none of my Nickel model 19's or 29's ..or a blued model 27 ...or stainless model 66's, 686,or 629's...or even an older model 18 blued....show any silhouette ( not even under magnification and 100 watt Hologen bench light ) of any pins on the finished side of the guns...

 

[Sevens]

There was more to read?

Happens a lot on discussion forums, sigh.

 

[James K]

If you do have S&W fix it, please let us see pictures of the repair.

Jim

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

These pins have the slots. Don't really remember exactly which one of my Smiths this is, but I can see it is a Five Screw, so it is not all that new. Beautiful machining, but it is pre-CNC.

This one has the studs pressed and staked in place. This one is older it is a K-38, probably from the 1940s.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I'm quite curious what a re-blued and refinished Model 28-2 looks like! It seems like the 28 finish (which we have hashed over many many times) is -so- dull and "workmanlike" that any average re-blue or refinish is simply going to be more lustrous and attractive than what a 28 came with.

Howdy Again

How dull the finish is on a Model 28 can vary quite a lot. This one, I forget right now what dash number it is, is far from dull.

I have another one, which I apparently do not have a photo of, that was refinished just before I bought it. It had some serious pitting, so the owner had it bead blasted to remove most of the pitting, then refinished. The finish is probably a lot more dull than most because of the bead blasting. Doesn't bother me a bit, it is a nice shooter with the four inch barrel.

 

[Webleymkv]

Originally posted by Sevens
I'm quite curious what a re-blued and refinished Model 28-2 looks like! It seems like the 28 finish (which we have hashed over many many times) is -so- dull and "workmanlike" that any average re-blue or refinish is simply going to be more lustrous and attractive than what a 28 came with.

Pretty much like a NIB M28. I told S&W that I wanted the reblue to be as close to the original finish as possible and they did a pretty good job of it. It might be ever so slightly glossier than the original was, but in my experience the finish varies a bit from one M28 to another so I could probably pass it off as an original finish if I wanted to (not that I would, I have no intention of ever selling this particular revolver).

Originally posted by g.willikers
$350?
Did he say the repair bill was $350?
Looks like it might be time to buy that drill press you have always wanted.

The work was quite a bit more involved than simply replacing the pin, it also included a refinish, retiming, and resetting the barrel-to-cylinder gap. While I don't know where I ever put the invoice, as I recall the refinish was the most expensive part of the repair followed by the resetting of the barrel-to-cylinder gap. I do know that S&W lists their standard polish and reblue at $220 on their website, so if you subtract the refinish the rest of the repairs only came to $130 which I really don't think is all that bad considering the amount of work that was done.

Originally posted by BigJimP
There are no outlines of any pins showing on my model 27 made in 1981...on the finished Nickel side of the gun / and I'm not going to use a punch to drive them out if they were there...the only S&W I have that shows an outline of pins - is an old Victory Model ( pre model 10 ) purchased in 1946 by an uncle ....they were parkerized and most of the parkerizing has worn off - and the pins are visible ....but none of my Nickel model 19's or 29's ..or a blued model 27 ...or stainless model 66's, 686,or 629's...or even an older model 18 blued....show any silhouette ( not even under magnification and 100 watt Hologen bench light ) of any pins on the finished side of the guns...

Originally posted by James K
If you do have S&W fix it, please let us see pictures of the repair.

The outline of the pin is just barely visible on mine under the right light as you can see in this (admittedly poorly taken with a cell phone) picture. However, since the BigJimP's gun is nickel as opposed to mine which is blued, I doubt it would be visible as the plating process would cover it up.

 

[Dfariswheel]

Be smart...send it to S&W.
If they refuse it, send it to Frank Glenn in Arizona.

Colt and S&W frame pins are pressed in.
Removal and replacement is done with a press device, special support dies, and special press punches, NOT by driving them in or out.

Driving them out or in runs a high risk of tilting the pin and enlarging the hole in the frame. Then you need a special new pin, often a custom made part.

Support dies fit the inside of the frame around the pin holes to prevent bulging or distorting the frame wall, and with a flat support die for the outside when pressing in a new pin, also to prevent distortion of the frame.
These are made of brass, aluminum, or a hard tough plastic.

Special hollow punches that fit over the small diameter of the pin are used to protect the new pin and to insure it goes in at a perfect 90 degrees to the frame hole.

Don't trust frame pin replacement to anyone armed with a hammer and punch, and that means most local gunsmiths.

 

[g.willikers]

I just spent $ 18K remodeling my gun room / reloading room

$ 350 to fix it would be reasonable....

Big Jim, will you adopt me?

This discussion has been very informative.
I've pressed pins out using a large vise.
An actual press is better, if available.
Like Defariswheel sez, correct alignment and support is most important.
Wood blocks with suitable holes, socket sets, bushings, all can be used in a pinch with success.

How hard would it be to change the press in pin back to the original screw in version?
That could make life easier.

Boy O' boy, the differences in Driftwood's pictures is a real awakening.
No wonder the older guns are so sought after.

 

[BigJimP]

None of the pins on my revolvers have those notches...but the oldest in my collection is 1971.../ my son has the Victory model - so I haven't looked at it..

You don't want me to adopt you ...you want my wife to adopt you ... ..it was her idea to redo my shop.../ but no, after 4 kids, 10 grandkids now -- maybe a great grankid on the way soon...and putting up with me for 28 yrs now ...she isn't even adopting a bird with an outside bird feeder - let alone someone else who owns guns, doesn't wipe his feet often enough, eats badly and does bad things in the bathroom..
( and yes she has a sister ...but I got the only cinderella out of that family )

Besides, although we're only in our late 60's...if I depart --- the most maintenance she wants is to lock the door on her way out...

She did reemphasize to me this am ...to just go buy another one...checking my S&W book - the 4" Nickle model 27-2 ( pinned and recessed ) with the red ramp was only made between 1979 and 1985 -- and Nickel was deleted in 1986. I don't know how many were made...I see a few 6" and some 8 3/8" barrels around...but I'd want another 4" ...but sometimes the search is more than half the fun ...and I'm not giving up on having this one repaired anyway.

Heading to range in a couple of hours ...with a Wilson 1911 in 9mm ( my primary carry gun / tactical practice gun) -- a model 19-1 4" Nickel and a Freedom Arms octagonal barrel 4 3/4" mod 83 in .357 mag...with 5 boxes of 9mm and 3 boxes of .357 Mag...for some entertainment. --- range is always uncrowed during the football games...

While I'm sad the model 27-2 4" is broken...have to put it in perspective...even my worst days are awful good !!

 

[g.willikers]

my son has the Victory model - so I haven't looked at it..

I much prefer taking other people's guns apart, too.
It's especially fun telling them that taking them all apart was free, but putting them back together is another matter all together.
But since it's your son, he probably won't fall for it and knows better by now.

 

[gyvel]

Ok, no drill press.
A big hammer instead?

No. A small hammer and a center punch to get it started, and a flat punch to get it out the rest of the way. Did you not read my post where I just did the very same thing on a local sheriff's Model 38?

 

[Bob Wright]

I had problems with those pins breaking in my Model 29 years ago. Finally S&W told me they were installing an "endurance package" and had new machinery being installed at the factory. After this was done, I had no more trouble from my early Model 29.

Actually, the pins sheared off, as opposed to actually breaking.

Bob Wright

 

[cw308]

I sent 3 handguns to S&W. A 29 for endshake, 36 busted hammer & 4566 trigger brass return clip. Shipped the next day air, they will give the fire arm a complete inspection, call you with there findings. Just send it to them.

 

[BigJimP]

Interesting Bob ...I have never heard of an endurance package - but I'll ask about it when I call them this week.

g.willikers...the kid that has the Victory model is 38 yrs old now ...time for him to stand on his own two feet .. ...but yes, I've shown him how to tear it down to a bare frame ...( but he won't do it on his own )...he lives a few hours away ...but I'll look at it next time I'm down there, if he wants me to.

Had a great range day today ...( I still miss the 27-2 ... but shooting the Freedom Arms and a model 686 ...made up for it a little bit ).

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Boy O' boy, the differences in Driftwood's pictures is a real awakening.
No wonder the older guns are so sought after.

Howdy Again

Just so you understand, the older gun is the one with the really ugly looking tool marks on the floor of the cavity.

But that does not matter, it is a clearance cut. The hammer, trigger, and trigger stop pivot on the flat portion of the stud, raised slightly above the floor of the cavity. The only part that actually rubbed on that rough surface was the rebound slide. If you look carefully you can see it has polished the tool marks slightly over the years.

 

[g.willikers]

Ah, thanks for the clarification.
I attributed the description with the wrong picture.
Glad to see world is not going to pot.