Blasts rock UK subway

Eghad

New member
"On October 6, 1973, the Jewish holy day of Yom Kippur, Egyptian forces attacked Israel from across the Suez Canal, while at the same time Syrian troops were flooding the Golan Heights in a surprise offensive. After early losses, Israeli counterattacks quickly pushed into Syrian territory in the north, as troops outflanked the Egyptian army in the south. Israel, with help from the U.S., succeeded in reversing the Arab gains and a cease-fire was concluded in November. But on October 17, OPEC struck back against the West by imposing an oil embargo on the U.S., while increasing prices by 70% to America's Western European allies. Overnight, the price of a barrel of oil to these nations rose from $3 to $5.11. [In January 1974, they raised it further to $11.65.] The U.S. and the Netherlands, in particular, were singled out for their support of Israel in the war.

When OPEC announced the sharp price rise, the shock waves were immediate. Industrial democracies, accustomed to uninterrupted sources of cheap, imported oil, were suddenly at the mercy of a modern Arab nationalism, standing up to American oil companies that had once held their countries in a vise grip. Many of these "new" Arabs were Harvard educated and familiar with the ways of the West, and to many Americans it was impossible to understand how their standard of living was now being held hostage to obscure border clashes in strange parts of the world.

The embargo in the U.S. came at a time when 85% of American workers drove to their places of employment each day. Suddenly, President Nixon had to set the nation on a course of voluntary rationing. He called upon homeowners to turn down their thermostats and for companies to trim work hours. Gas stations were asked to hold their sales to a max of ten gallons per customer.

In the month of November 1973, Nixon proposed an extension of Daylight Savings Time and a total ban on the sale of gasoline on Sunday's. [Both were later approved by Congress.] But the biggest legislative initiative was the approval by Congress on November 13 of a Trans-Alaskan oil pipeline, designed to supply 2,000,000 barrels of oil a day. [This was completed in 1977. See any parallels to today's fight over the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge?]

A severe recession hit much of the Western world, including the U.S., and as gasoline lines snaked their way around city blocks and tempers flared (the price at the pump had risen from 30 cents a gallon to about $1.20 at the height of the crisis), conspiracy theories abounded. The rumor with the widest circulation had the whole crisis as being contrived by the major oil importers who were supposedly secretly raking in the profits. New York Harbor was really full of tankers loaded with oil, in no hurry to dock, according to the Oliver Stone types. Sorry, folks, it was just our own stupidity that allowed us to be so used and abused.

How did Wall Street respond? Well, as you might imagine shares in oil stocks performed well as profits soared, but the rest of the market swooned 15% between 10/17/73 and the end of November. [The Dow Jones fell from 962 to 822.] This ended up being the middle of the great bear market that would see the Dow go from its 1/11/73 high of 1051 to 577 by 12/6/74, a whopping 45% decline over nearly two years.

As for the embargo, the Arabs lifted it against the U.S. on March 18, 1974. The Dow then stood at 874."

So has our oil consumption increased or decresed since then?

stupidity is still around when it comes to a national energy policy.

History says its all about the "O"
 

Rojoe67

New member
London

Remember those whom try to kill us are the same that use a coward's way to fight us. They know they can't beat us in a conventional war. They run and hide and remind me of a diseased rat infestation. The numbers are small and they only have so many cowards to die for the cause. We can't turn them into a glass parking lot for the reason that they are spread out over the world. I understand the anger and it is natural and I think very real. I am ready to again raise my hand and go fight the slobs. We can't let our guard down ever. These acts are just reminders of the world we live in. We, as people of the free world need to remember 911 and all that has taken place before and after that day...... Let's leave the "We do it for the oil crap to some other post"

Seperation on that, verse this, would be wise and logical.... ;)
 
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bclark1

New member
If the middle east didnt have oil would we be there?

we've lost a lot of good americans in places we had no interest in before. all over africa, other middle-east *holes (can't really "destabilize" the region if there was no stability to begin with), parts around asia and south america... we've lost people on every continent except the coldest one for non-profiteering motives. does that mean those motives are purely altruistic and apolotical? no. but as harsh as the criticism can come, i do believe there are still smart people in the government, and they're certainly capable of doing a cost analysis on a major operation if they plan to gain something from it, and i would have to say that this kind of commitment (not to mention the public relations beating) would definitely be down in the red. maybe i'm being the naive one here, but i do view intelligence as a human business where errors are made, and i do believe our country took us to war in iraq honestly with the best information they had at the time. we found that information to be flawed, but i'd also like to think that the net effect is a better world with one less madman at the helm of a former pseudo-superpower. yes, people are still hurting, but the possibility for their lives to improve has never been brighter. the iraqi people are the ones who live and know the area, who can stomp out terrorism if they rise up. but they could never have risen up against saddam on their own, as hussein's purges showed.
 

Bog

New member
... and now that my brother's turned up safe, I get to say how *BLOODY* worried about him I was....

*huge sigh*

I don't care what these wars and conflicts are about. They're not about me. I'm an artist and a teacher. The hell has anyone got a beef with me about?

I'm 99.99999 percent of people - never done anything to anyone, only ever worn a white hat, helped people 'cross roads, checked out cars stopped on the laybye, gotten bruises for stopping evil-doing.

My friends are getting killed for something, but I'm bedamned if I know what it is.
 

9mmsnoopy

New member
well i am wondering if all of the bleeding heart sympathetic types on here who think all of the illegals entering our country is ok are changing thier tunes now? its just a matter of time before WE get hit again.


yes i know these werent mexicans who bombed London, but those same terrorists can quite easily enter the U.S. thru either of our borders.


bush has alot of blood on his hands, and not because of his inability to ride a bike and chew gum at the same time.
 

Bog

New member
These are the words of Ken Livingston, the Mayor of London.

I've called him "Red Ken" in the past, and "The People's Politican" and worse. But these were his words. Judge them yourselves. I think they're pretty damned good words.

This was a cowardly attack, which has resulted in injury and loss of life. Our thoughts are with everyone who has been injured, or lost loved ones. I want to thank the emergency services for the way they have responded.

Following the al-Qaeda attacks on September 11th in America we conducted a series of exercises in London in order to be prepared for just such an attack. One of the exercises undertaken by the government, my office and the emergency and security services was based on the possibility of multiple explosions on the transport system during the Friday rush hour. The plan that came out of that exercise is being executed today, with remarkable efficiency and courage, and I praise those staff who are involved.

I'd like to thank Londoners for the calm way in which they have responded to this cowardly attack and echo the advice of the Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair - do everything possible to assist the police and take the advice of the police about getting home today.

I have no doubt whatsoever that this is a terrorist attack. We did hope in the first few minutes after hearing about the events on the Underground that it might simply be a maintenance tragedy. That was not the case. I have been able to stay in touch through the very excellent communications that were established for the eventuality that I might be out of the city at the time of a terrorist attack and they have worked with remarkable effectiveness. I will be in continual contact until I am back in London.

I want to say one thing specifically to the world today. This was not a terrorist attack against the mighty and the powerful. It was not aimed at Presidents or Prime Ministers. It was aimed at ordinary, working-class Londoners, black and white, Muslim and Christian, Hindu and Jew, young and old. It was an indiscriminate attempt to slaughter, irrespective of any considerations for age, for class, for religion, or whatever.

That isn't an ideology, it isn't even a perverted faith - it is just an indiscriminate attempt at mass murder and we know what the objective is. They seek to divide Londoners. They seek to turn Londoners against each other. I said yesterday to the International Olympic Committee, that the city of London is the greatest in the world, because everybody lives side by side in harmony. Londoners will not be divided by this cowardly attack. They will stand together in solidarity alongside those who have been injured and those who have been bereaved and that is why I'm proud to be the mayor of that city.

Finally, I wish to speak directly to those who came to London today to take life.

I know that you personally do not fear giving up your own life in order to take others - that is why you are so dangerous. But I know you fear that you may fail in your long-term objective to destroy our free society and I can show you why you will fail.

In the days that follow look at our airports, look at our sea ports and look at our railway stations and, even after your cowardly attack, you will see that people from the rest of Britain, people from around the world will arrive in London to become Londoners and to fulfil their dreams and achieve their potential.

They choose to come to London, as so many have come before because they come to be free, they come to live the life they choose, they come to be able to be themselves. They flee you because you tell them how they should live. They don't want that and nothing you do, however many of us you kill, will stop that flight to our city where freedom is strong and where people can live in harmony with one another. Whatever you do, however many you kill, you will fail.

We're at war, people. And it's not the kind of war we're good at. I trust in you, folk of the Firing Line, to wage that war as well as you can with the tools you have to hand, and I trust you will always remember that the most potent weapon in your arsenal is your brain.

G'night, ladies and gents. Selah. I am very, very tired.

Bog of Blighty, signing off.
 

70-101

Moderator
Remember those whom try to kill us are the same that use a coward's way to fight us


I think I'm going to be sick.





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JimDiver

New member
...as well as Tony's little speach. The bus they showed looked completely torn up. Interviews with victims were shown too, it seems like they're all handling it surprisingly well. Adaptable people!


Tony looked like he made in his shorts.... I don't know if he can take the pressure.
 

Rojoe67

New member
70-101

Did you eat something bad? Hope your feeling better now that your done with your barfing.......... Sorry if you don't like my freedom of speach.... Aint real big on your style or lack of it either ;)

Regards, Rojoe67
 
"Was Bin Laden and his band of merry men in Afghanistan or Iraq ?"



Yes, Bin Laden was in Afghanistan.

"show me the WMDs........."

You know, it's pretty interesting that people yell about Bush having lied about WMDs as if the intelligence community is infalliable.

Here's a sad fact for you...

Prior to the American invasion of Iraq, virtually every government of any consequence in the world, including those with their own well developed intelligence services (the French, Germans, Russians, Isralies, and even the Canadians) felt that it was VERY likely that Iraq had WMDs, in fact far more likely that he had them than not.

The big difference between the US position and that of those nations that opposed the war in Iraq?

NOT whether the WMDs existed or not, but what level of threat they posed.

Convenient of you all to gloss over that fact.

But God forbid you be troubled by a fact, lest it interupt your screed.


"before you secure the pipelines you need to secure the border..."

Say what?

You do realize that that just further DISPROVES your contention that this is an oil war, right?

The US military isn't working (at least not working very hard) to secure Iraq's borders.

And no, you don't need to secure the borders to secure the oil fields.

Tell us what the force concentration would be if the US pulled its forces back to cover only the oil fields, terminal ports, and transmission lines. It would be far greater than it is today.



"If the Middle East didn't have oil, would we be there?"

We were in Bosnia Herzogovenia. No oil there.

We were in Somalia. No oil there.

The list goes on.
 

Fred Hansen

New member
"If the Middle East didn't have oil, would we be there?"
Hey! Great question!!!

Did you ever stop to give it any real thought though?

Right now the Middle East exports two major items: oil, and senseless death. The death-cult psychotics that infect the place hate and envy the West, and have - for as long as I HAVE BEEN ALIVE threatened civilization. This despite having been blessed with huge quantities of the most important commodity on the planet.

Think those folks are fun now? Just think how much fun they'll be when they have absolutely nothing left to export other than senseless death. Should be a real blast. Blast, get it?
:rolleyes:
 

Blue Heeler

Moderator
We need the Real Thing!

We don't need BBC or SKY or CNN. What we need is Julius Caesar.
Here is a transcript (from the Latin) written many centuries ago.
Senatortius Advisorus:- ' Hail Mighty Caesar, I have come to report on the affairs of State.'
Caesar:' Well - what then?'
'Mighty Caesar, one of our nobles was bitten by a wasp while frolicking with a wench in the olive grove.'
Caesar:' Who was it?'
SA: 'Grossus Buttus.'
Caesar:' Grossus is a fine fellow. You must take a maniple of soldiers and destroy every wasp's nest within two miles of the olive grove.'
SA:'It will be done.'
Caesar: 'Anything else to report?'
SA: 'Yes MC, a bunch of Carthaginians was found smearing faeces on the Temple of Jupiter in Carthage.'
Caesar:' Did you catch them?'
SA: 'Only three MC, six escaped to Carthage City.'
Caesar:'Crucify the three you have, then send a Legion to Carthage and destroy it utterly.'
SA:' MC it would take two legions to do that. and many concerned people would think it was an overreaction.'
Caesar: 'Listen Buttwormus! We have stayed where we are because of our frequently demonstrated willingness to use overwhelming force - this is what we do. You might like to tell any 'concerned people' you know that if they keep up their bull****, the same thing will happen to them.' Do you understand.Buttwormus Grasshopper?'
SA: MC,your logic is faultless. Please excuse me while I hasten to attend to your instructions (and change my underwear for being so silly as to have mentioned the 'concerned people.'
 

LAK

Moderator
Mike Irwin
If this war was TRULY about oil, the US would have the oil fields and transmission lines clamped down so damned tight it wouldn't even be funny.
If it were truly a "war" your comments would apply to our borders. ;)

In the case of Iraq, there are simply not enough troops and resources to secure the entire oil infrastructure - much of anything else - nor the borders there either.

But I am sure the attacks in the U.K. will garner comrade Blair some of the support he has been so sorely lacking - and perhaps more British troops in Iraq and elsewhere that the Bush administration has so recently been pressing for.
 

Eghad

New member
You talk as if Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz are noobs to Washington. Those guys have been around since Nixon. If they havent figured out the capibility of national intelligence by now.....

I still say show me the WMDs........there were othe voices saying that Iraq didnt have em.

Now we have a supposed UK Govt memo selling the point of using WMDs to start the war with Iraq. I have spent plenty of hours defending Bush on WMDs till I couldnt justify it anymore. Even before the WMDs were bought up Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz were hot to trot to attack Iraq hours after 9/11. In fact our current doctrine of preemption was first published after the first Gulf War by Wolfowitz. Cheney edited it to take out the words like premeptive.

The goal of Al Queda is to create a fundamentalist Islamic superstate which just happens to contain a lot of oil. Wonder how much fun they can with that? They can shut the pipeline down and wreak havoc on our economies. or sell us oil at higher prices to finance WMDs and Terror to use against us.

oil is still in the equation........no matter how you slice the pie.

Bush says this war is about Democracy....if thats the case then why havent we invaded Saudi, Jordan, Syria, Egypt and the other countries which are definitely not democracies yet we have them as allies?

FYI:

March 1, 2005 Iraq closes its northern crude oil export pipeline indefinitely due to sabotage concerns. The 600,000 bbl/d-pipeline, which runs from the city of Kirkuk to the Mediterranean port of Ceyhan has been the target of over 15 attacks since January 2005. The closure of the pipeline will make it difficult for Iraq to meet its targeted crude oil export level of 2 million barrels per day. (WMRC)
 

Spotted Owl

New member
I still say show me the WMDs........there were othe voices saying that Iraq didnt have em.
Sure, there may have been other voices saying there weren't any WMDs, but would you take that risk? I certainly wouldn't.
 
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