Bin Laden wants to negotiate !!!

carbiner

New member
Traditional conservatives are the good guys who wrote the Constitution.

Liberals on the other hand brought us, sodomy+aids and. Let me be clear, no offense to gays I just don't want to pay for it. Which is fine for you, until you take money from my pay check/Family to pay for a freaky new virus. Abortion, heres another fine social disaster brought to America by the liberal mind set, Welfare, hey, now thats a great idea that just keeps growing and growing pinning more people down in poverty,
Oh! and my personal favorite, GUN CONTROL.

Liberal theory has failed badly in all cases and has costed the hard working family oriented American, financially, socially, and morally.

Again I would like to point out what a fine job the middle east is currently doing...... After thousands of years!

PS: Canada is sick of liberalism too!
 

fisherman66

New member
Traditional conservatives are the good guys who wrote the Constitution.

Liberals on the other hand brought us, sodomy+aids and. Let me be clear, no offense to gays I just don't want to pay for it. Which is fine for you, until you take money from my pay check/Family to pay for a freaky new virus. Abortion, heres another fine social disaster brought to America by the liberal mind set, Welfare, hey, now thats a great idea that just keeps growing and growing pinning more people down in poverty,
Oh! and my personal favorite, GUN CONTROL.

Liberal theory has failed badly in all cases and has costed the hard working family oriented American, financially, socially, and morally.

Again I would like to point out what a fine job the middle east is currently doing...... After thousands of years!

PS: Canada is sick of liberalism too!

Hahahaha

The Constitution was written by the most liberal rebels of that time period.

AIDS came from beastists (or monkey's if you want to blame the victims).

If you want to slam gays then you should have no problem finding an appropriate forum to do that. It has no place here IMO.

There are plenty of moderate places in the Middle East. Jordan is perhaps one of the nicest places of the entire region (politically and geographically.)
 

Redworm

Moderator
ok seriously, this is getting way off topic :p but until I get yelled at about it I'm gonna try to sneak it through :cool:

Traditional conservatives are the good guys who wrote the Constitution.

Please. By your definition the conservatives of that time were the ones who would've preferred to live under the King's rule.

Liberals on the other hand brought us, sodomy+aids and.
:rolleyes: Now you're just making crap up. AIDS is a disease, not a political statement. Sodomy has existed since before your religion was created and will exist long after it's gone. Besides, it's none of your business what goes on in anyone else's bedroom so why is it even an issue?

Abortion, heres another fine social disaster brought to America by the liberal mind set
You see it as a social disaster, I don't. Remember, opinions are like armpits (well, like something else but I'd rather keep this clean :p ).

Welfare, hey, now thats a great idea that just keeps growing and growing pinning more people down in poverty,
Hey, I'm all for getting rid of the welfare system. Charity should be charity.

Oh! and my personal favorite, GUN CONTROL.
Because there are no anti-gun conservatives, right? Yeah, gun control is a great issue to complain about but is completely and utterly meaningless if you ignore every other freedom that people are supposed to enjoy. If you fight for the second amendment but then refuse to acknowledge the first then you're just campaigning to have a loud toy, nothing more.

Again I would like to point out what a fine job the middle east is currently doing...... After thousands of years!

Ever been to Dubai?

The problems in the middle east typically stem from two things: religion and oil. Hmm....seems to be another link in that pattern.

PS: Canada is sick of liberalism too!

Your point? America is sick of conservativism.
 

Redworm

Moderator
AIDS came from beastists (or monkey's if you want to blame the victims).
Ah, no. There is still no solid evidence that details exactly how the HIV jumped species but it's quite a bit more likely that it was transmitted through open wounds and injuries as opposed to someone tapping a chimp.
 

fisherman66

New member
Ah, no. There is still no solid evidence that details exactly how the HIV jumped species but it's quite a bit more likely that it was transmitted through open wounds and injuries as opposed to someone tapping a chimp.

I think my story is more appropo (right or wrong), but I will try to stick to more fact and less theory.
 

carbiner

New member
You guys are funny, well, i'm glad I don't see things your way and i'm sure you feel the same. It's been a fun debate though! I have other more important issues at hand, such as a new Taurus 357 8 shot blaster.
 

Redworm

Moderator
yea sorry to jump down your throat like that :p I misunderstood and get irked when I see implications of comparison between homosexuality and bestiality (even though there was none in your post). mea culpa

You guys are funny, well, i'm glad I don't see things your way and i'm sure you feel the same

Pretty much. I just don't like having my freedoms taken away because of religious beliefs. I'm not anti-religion but the same way that you wouldn't want Islamic ideals forced on your life I don't want Christian ideals forced on mine.
 

fisherman66

New member
I have other more important issues at hand, such as a new Taurus 357 8 shot blaster.

Figures :D

yea sorry to jump down your throat like that I misunderstood and get irked when I see implications of comparison between homosexuality and bestiality (even though there was none in your post). mea culpa

I never felt like you jumped down my throat. The facts were appearantly off, and I'd prefer to have those straight. No implication between homosexuality and anything else (especially beastiality.) I've been forced to come to terms with homosexuality by having a sibling coming out. I'm a better person for it. Tolerance is something in short supply (on all ends of the specutrum.)
 

model 25

New member
Quote:
The escalation of hatred for America coincides with the liberization of America. The more we have followed those values that the liberals have pushed the worse our relations with those countries who are of religious base has become. Each and every change adds to that escalation of hatred.



Would you be so kind as to provide some support for that arguement?

As I said before "what's different?" When the democrats owned the government (before the 90s) the escalation of socialism along with the denigration of religion told the religous world we were evil. Add to that the drug use,abortion,promotion of crap values out of hollywood,gay marriage ect and you find that the Muslim world doesn't want their family values destroyed like ours have been.

Again I went to Iraq and talked to Iraqis. The things there that stand out to me is the family values. Values long gone here because of liberal socialist. You may not recognize it because you never lived it but we used to have it here.

Quote:
One of the things unique about growing old is that you have lived through history in the making.


It's a shame when all that is ruined by senility. (just kidding; just kidding)


There are times I wish I was senile after seeing what was America and what is today. All the things in society that used to be common courtesy have dissapeared. Civil conversation no longer exist as it isn't face to face and the average person is no longer respected.

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Redworm

Moderator
Add to that the drug use,abortion,promotion of crap values out of hollywood,gay marriage ect

Once again, opinion. Just because you find it immoral does not make you right. I find many things about christianity grossly immoral but that doesn't make you a bad person, does it?
 

fisherman66

New member
As I said before "what's different?" When the democrats owned the government (before the 90s) the escalation of socialism along with the denigration of religion told the religous world we were evil. Add to that the drug use,abortion,promotion of crap values out of hollywood,gay marriage ect and you find that the Muslim world doesn't want their family values destroyed like ours have been.

You honestly think that was the Osama agenda? What does the word "infidel" mean exactly? You accredit the radical wing of Islam with too much tolerance.

There are times I wish I was senile after seeing what was America and what is today. All the things in society that used to be common courtesy have dissapeared. Civil conversation no longer exist as it isn't face to face and the average person is no longer respected.

I tend to agree with that, but I suspect respect has been slowly disolving over a time period that is not suggestive of a political agenda (and perhaps more in line with TV channel growth.)
 

model 25

New member
redworm
How do you figure that? What makes a "traditional" American a good American? Remember that less than half a century ago it was "tradition" for women to stay out of college so they can work on finding a man to support them instead of living up to their own potential. It was also "traditional" to keep black kids and white kids in different schools.

Just because one's values are "traditional" does not mean they're moral.

So what's different since we made the big bra burning freedom that sent women to the workplace and away from their homes and families? MMM lets see now. Who has been watching the kids and how have they turned out?(Colombine ect)
How much has things gone up with more money chasing fewer goods? (inflation) Do women now have the choice to raise a family? (Not without sacrificing all else). No sir you are wrong here, it isn't a better life for women.

I have been married for 33 years and with the same women for 37 years. She has had the choice to go to school or raise a family then seek employment if she wanted. Often she points out how hard women have to struggle today just to live much less try to raise a family. Women have no chice now as competition in the workplace forces women to work.

I could go on but this is a lost cause as you can't relate to what is different, you haven't lived it knowingly. You are for change but don't understand what effect on society change has and the number of lives ruined by change that has'nt been thought out. The Muslim world has plenty of time to think and look at us and our families, what life means to us. Some of them think we need to die.

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model 25

New member
Once again, opinion. Just because you find it immoral does not make you right. I find many things about christianity grossly immoral but that doesn't make you a bad person, does it?

I guess you have to understand the differences to be able to discriminate in right and wrong. Society and the quality of life needs to improve for us and the values you think are good are really no improvemnt. Are things better today than they were in the fifties or sixties for the common family?

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model 25

New member
You honestly think that was the Osama agenda? What does the word "infidel" mean exactly? You accredit the radical wing of Islam with too much tolerance.

Too much tolerence has ruined America. Our jobs are leaving,immigration is destroying us and we sink into a consumer society rather than making life better.

Look into the heart of a religous man, deeply. Who does he serve? If you can't put yourself there because you are not religous then I can't go farther with this. See putting yourself in anothers shoes brings the understanding of "what's different"

I tend to agree with that, but I suspect respect has been slowly disolving over a time period that is not suggestive of a political agenda (and perhaps more in line with TV channel growth.)

And who controls the media:D Life today is the result of the liberal agenda, I saw it enacted and now see the outcome. I really hope for my familys sake that the conservative agenda doesn't go off course. History shows bad things when they do.

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fisherman66

New member
How much has things gone up with more money chasing fewer goods? (inflation)

Part of that issue relates to the GDP and global economics. Everybody picks on Greenspan about curbing "economic exuberance" until that arguement doesn't fit their agenda.

If you think our FED has gone to pot now; just wait for the "Naked Short Selling" scandle to hit. A 6 billion dollar a day fraud is tapping your retirement accounts.
 

Redworm

Moderator
So what's different since we made the big bra burning freedom that sent women to the workplace and away from their homes and families? MMM lets see now. Who has been watching the kids and how have they turned out?(Colombine ect)
So what, you'd rather women just stay in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant? They can't compete in the man's world for some reason? You bring up Columbine yet you fail to understand that the fathers are just as responsible for their children's behaviour. Why can't fathers stay home and care for the kids while the mother works at the law firm?

Oh that's right, "traditional gender roles". Gender roles that exist because some men are simply unable to deal with the fact that there are women out there stronger, smarter, and better workers than than they are.

How much has things gone up with more money chasing fewer goods? (inflation) Do women now have the choice to raise a family? (Not without sacrificing all else). No sir you are wrong here, it isn't a better life for women.
lol ***

How is it not a better life for women? Y'know that whole VOTING thing they fought for...I would say that made things better. Of course women have a choice in raising a family; now they're not all told that their goal in life is to find a man to support them because they're actually capable of doing it on their own.

But of course there are still men out there who feel that they own women, that their wives are property as oppossed to people.

I have been married for 33 years and with the same women for 37 years. She has had the choice to go to school or raise a family then seek employment if she wanted. Often she points out how hard women have to struggle today just to live much less try to raise a family. Women have no chice now as competition in the workplace forces women to work.

Good for your wife in having those options but that shouldn't stop other women from having their own options. No choice? Competition doesn't force women to work any more than it forces men to work. What your wife points out doesn't make any sense. Why does a woman have the obligation to raise the family? Why can't she be the breadwinner and the father stay home and raise the children? Why can't a woman go through life without raising a family?


Yup, gender roles. Such wonderful family values...aw, it's too hard for the girls to work and raise a family so let's make it easier on them by not allowing them to leave the house.


I could go on but this is a lost cause as you can't relate to what is different, you haven't lived it knowingly.
And I am thrilled that I have not had to live in a society where women and minorities are treated as second class citizens to white males.

You are for change but don't understand what effect on society change has and the number of lives ruined by change that has'nt been thought out.

And others don't seem to understand that not changing ruins just as many lives. "Change" is what freed slaves. "Change" is what allowed women to vote. "Change" is what brought allowed science and medicine to improve and lengthen our lives. "Change" is unavoidable and to think that the status quo should be preserved simply because some people are incapable of handling that change is abhorrent.
The Muslim world has plenty of time to think and look at us and our families, what life means to us. Some of them think we need to die.

christ here we go again

It's not just the value systems that they dislike; the diety that so many people here worship and the fact that each of us is allowed to worship whoever the hell we want (may y'all be blessed by the Flying Spaghetti Monster) that causes those extremists to want us dead.

That gay cowboy movie winning an Oscar is not the cause of this. My mother earning twice what my father earned is not the cause. My friend who's abortion I actually paid for (medical necessity) is not the cause.

Osama does not want liberals dead any more than he wants anyone else dead. Don't kid yourself in thinking that conservatives are the good guys and would be safe if not for the people in this country that simply want to live their lives without religious influence.
 

fisherman66

New member
Too much tolerence has ruined America. Our jobs are leaving,immigration is destroying us and we sink into a consumer society rather than making life better.

Look into the heart of a religous man, deeply. Who does he serve? If you can't put yourself there because you are not religous then I can't go farther with this. See putting yourself in anothers shoes brings the understanding of "what's different"

You are ignoring the question.

In one post you say respect and courtesy has left our society; and in the next post you say too much tolerence has ruined America. Respect and tolerence are close kin.

I'm amused at how religion is constantly brought into this; as if to take the high ground. You sound more and more like a radical muslem. Take off the Berka or veil an you will see what "too much tolerance" is doing. The enigma of the lion or the lamb....
 

Redworm

Moderator
Look into the heart of a religous man, deeply. Who does he serve?

In your eyes he serves his creator. In my eyes he's serving his invisible friend. He then fights with other men thinking "My invisible friend is better than your invisible friend."

But to the religious man it's justified because his religion dictates how he views the very nature of his existence. When someone challenges that and suggests that he may be wrong he gets ticked off and fights with other men who hold different ideas as to how the world works.


Yet nowhere does a man being religious make him moral. Osama is a very religious man. Pat Robertson is a very religious man. Some very murderous people throughout history have been religious men. Religion does not make a man moral.
 

model 25

New member
So what, you'd rather women just stay in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant? They can't compete in the man's world for some reason? You bring up Columbine yet you fail to understand that the fathers are just as responsible for their children's behaviour. Why can't fathers stay home and care for the kids while the mother works at the law firm?

Oh that's right, "traditional gender roles". Gender roles that exist because some men are simply unable to deal with the fact that there are women out there stronger, smarter, and better workers than than they are.

Gender roles:D That doesn't exist anymore in America nor does tradition, that left us long ago. Yet because no one will take on the role of parent then low and behold the kids turn into juvenile delinquents. You used to see this in families with only one parent, now there are no parents as they are out chasing a buck.

How is it not a better life for women? Y'know that whole VOTING thing they fought for...I would say that made things better. Of course women have a choice in raising a family; now they're not all told that their goal in life is to find a man to support them because they're actually capable of doing it on their own.

But of course there are still men out there who feel that they own women, that their wives are property as oppossed to people.

Yep they were led by socialist who said "equal pay for equal work" but the socialist didn't tell them they were not going to have the choice of family or work. I love it though as I here alot of women who hate what the femenist socialist had led them into:D You only get one time in life, your kids grow so fast and life just dissapears so to spend your life chasing money and not being with your family isn't a improvement to me. To you it might be though:)

And I am thrilled that I have not had to live in a society where women and minorities are treated as second class citizens to white males.

Now everyone is second class even though you think things are improved. Sometime if you get the chance read Jeff Coopers book "To Ride Shoot Straight and Speak the Truth" One story in there is "The Crossing" It deals with lifes everyday travels for the family on a ship and the way it used to be.

christ here we go again

It's not just the value systems that they dislike; the diety that so many people here worship and the fact that each of us is allowed to worship whoever the hell we want (may y'all be blessed by the Flying Spaghetti Monster) that causes those extremists to want us dead.

Some men see themselves as servants of God and some see only themselves. You have made your choice and they have made theirs. Why each chooses is his own story but the life lived under that choice is the measure of the individual. Some want to make life better for others and some are self centered.

Osama is a fanatic about his God and will do every thing it takes in his mind to please his God including kill us. That is his way. Those who only believe in "self" have their way. Neither is better but both are happening today.

Osama does not want liberals dead any more than he wants anyone else dead. Don't kid yourself in thinking that conservatives are the good guys and would be safe if not for the people in this country that simply want to live their lives without religious influence.

We are better off today with conservitives killing terrorist than liberals banging interns:D

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