Best cal and gun for grizzly protection

[Deaf Smith]

I venture to say that trooper took his shotgun because of the weapons available to him it was a better choice than an AR-15 carbine or his side arm. That still doesn't mean a 12 ga is the "best" choice.

Dunno about "best" but ... Brenneke "Black Magic", 600 grains at 1500 fps, kind of think that's good enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRHmDaDnwDU

BTW, the Brenneke is almost twice as hard as the foster slug. They are made for bear.

And keep in mind folks, we are talking DEFENSE from bears, not hunting. All ranges will be in measured in feet. Oh, and the national park service rangers shoot problem bears all the time and it is generally with a shotgun.

Dixie slugs make some real HUGE ones!

http://www.dixieslugs.com/home.html

http://www.dixieslugs.com/images/Dangerous_Game_Single_Shot.pdf

Yea... maybe not the best but a real good choice.

Deaf

 

[jackmoser65]

Isn't this discussion supposed to be about revolvers? Why does this tired old crap about slugs always come up?

 

[zipspyder]

I agree about the pistol slant, which is why I haven't posted in this thread until now as I would say if it's an option got to lever gun or shotgun. Since it is the pistol forum I would say the highest caliber pistol/revolver you can instinctively shoot well fast enough to hit something at close range. Don't worry about capacity as much as being able to hit something. Anything is better than nothing but I would also carry bear spray as well. Get the heaviest bullet you can in fmj flat head or a hard semi wad-cutter cast.

 

[Deaf Smith]

the highest caliber pistol/revolver you can instinctively shoot well fast enough to hit something at close range.

I agree!

My and my wife's plan is I pack one of my .44s and she has the bear spray. If a nuisance bear shows up, spray 'em while I back her up with the .44. If it looks like a fight to begin with, I blast 'em while she backs me up.

Oh, but... I much prefer my Mosseberg 500 Mariner with 4 round tac-star side saddle, Mag-pull stock and 'Black Magic' slugs. Might even one day put a ghost ring sight on it. That Mossie is my home defense shotgun right now (along with M1 Carbine) and I am very familiar with it.

Deaf

 

[Rangerrich99]

Originally Posted by g.willikers View Post
If it is a threat, don't talk, shoot.
Tuco, is that you?

Nice reference. Love TGTBATU.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Actually Tuco would say..."When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk."

Deaf

 

[bricz75]

Bear guns are guns that have penetration enough to break big bones and penetrate deep. The "best' bear gun is one that does these things that you can shoot well and fast.

I was the CEO of Cast Performance Bullet Co for some time and I have a LOT of experience with what works, what doesn't and so on, but I can tell you faithfully that a good 357 Magnum with hard cast LBT Bullet or heavy Keith SWCs is FAR better than a 500 S&W, if you can shoot the 357 better and faster then the 500.

I noticed a .357 load that shoots a 180 grain flat nose at 1350 fps and produces a power factor of 243,000 and 725 ft/lbs of energy. Will that penetrate an attacking grizzly sufficiently?

 

[Nathan]

458 Lott out of a custom bolt safari rifle with 20" bbl and express sights!

 

[ShootistPRS]

I would like to see a 357 magnum that can shoot a 180 bullet at 1350 fps. It would have to have a carbine length barrel. From my 6 inch 357 I can get a bit over 1500 fps with a 140 grain bullet and the 158 grain bullets are down at 1200 fps. I can shoot the Sierra 180 grain 357 bullet from my 358 at 2700 fps.

A grizzly bear is a lot of mean stuffed into a big box and while they have been killed with 22 LR from a pistol I would want a 454 with a 250 grain hard cast bullet as a minimum. That would be at the lower end of my personal comfort level. !2 gauge slugs or round balls would be moderately comforting. An RPG would be a good choice for me, as long as I had time to fire it.

 

[Dave T]

I've always believed the saying that goes: Things that don't kill you will make you stronger, but bears will kill you. (smile)

Dave

 

[Deaf Smith]

I would like to see a 357 magnum that can shoot a 180 bullet at 1350 fps.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=396

4 inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun

Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1375 fps

The origional .357 Magnum loads were pretty stiff. Today's loads are watered down.

Deaf

 

[bricz75]

I would like to see a 357 magnum that can shoot a 180 bullet at 1350 fps. It would have to have a carbine length barrel. From my 6 inch 357 I can get a bit over 1500 fps with a 140 grain bullet and the 158 grain bullets are down at 1200 fps. I can shoot the Sierra 180 grain 357 bullet from my 358 at 2700 fps.

Grizzly Cartridge Company claim.

 

[KoRn.357]

Underwood also claims a 180gr at that speed

 

[Salmoneye]

There is a US Dept. Of Agriculture document from 1983 entitled;

Safety In Bear Country: Protective Measures And Bullet Performance At Short Range

According to this, I could do a lot worse than sticking with my 18" Remington 7400 Carbine loaded with 220gr ammo...

https://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152.pdf

Of course we have decades of changes and improvements since, but I found it interesting...

 

[g.willikers]

Doesn't the bear have something to say about it.
There's lots of variety in bears - size, meanness, when their last meal was, and if you're just in their way.
Or if they just don't like you.
No telling, really, what will be needed.
Not much different than any other critter, including people.

 

[jackmoser65]

There is a US Dept. Of Agriculture document from 1983 entitled;

There was a whole lot wrong with that test and it's really outdated but I would rather have a .30-06 loaded with heavy bullets than a shotgun.

 

[ShootistPRS]

I would have to run it through a chronograph before I believe any manufacturers hype about velocity. I have run my loads through a chronograph and know what it makes. I also know I can shoot one inch groups at 25 yards. I remain suspicious of "super speed" from any manufacturer.

 

[tony pasley]

You need a pistol you can shoot well.
Bear spray foam.
and some one who runs slower than you do.

 

[jackmoser65]

I would have to run it through a chronograph before I believe any manufacturers hype about velocity.

Numbers advertised by companies like Buffalo Bore, Grizzly and Underwood tend to be accurate if not underrated. 'Cuz they chronograph from actual guns not test barrels.

 

[bricz75]

The origional .357 Magnum loads were pretty stiff. Today's loads are watered down.

IIRC, the standard today is 158 grains at about 1250 fps, producing about 535 ft/lbs of energy. What were .357 loads in the past? When did they water them down?

There was a whole lot wrong with that test and it's really outdated but I would rather have a .30-06 loaded with heavy bullets than a shotgun.

I think "guide" rifles are usually a larger bore but shorter range like the 45-70. For protection against bears I'd prefer large bore, non expanding ammo.