Best .357 Mag/.38Spl+P for a 2" snub?

[Buckeye!]

The reason I mentioned about the FBI load, is I just don't like to use the 357mag. with a 2in barrel..Now you'll still have increased Vel. over the 38 spl or the 38 spl +P... but tou'll have great increase in recoil(slower follow up shots ) and muzzel flash....A 3in. barrel SP101 and a 3in barreled Taurus 608 are my snubbies for a 357 Mag. both are heavy (for Size) and able to dampen' the recoil and the 3in barrel will better utilize the 357 mag cartridge performance..in fact my 38 Spl. 85UL wears a 2.5 in barrel..

 

[Sarge]

Another vote for the 158 grain LSWCHP +P. I'm quite happy with the way that one has worked over the years and never wanted anything more from the .38 Special.

 

[sandbag]

FBI load

I like the Remington Express or Buffalo Bore FBI(aka "Chicago") load.Federal and Winchester were not as good.
The Remington is HARD to find(I have three boxes that I husband carefully)and Buffalo Bore is easily available but EXPENSIVE).
This ammo is stout in a snubbie.Well,not in the Ruger "Six" series.

 

[nate45]

Are there .38 Spl +P loads out there that would actually work better than a .357 load in this application?

No, the 158 and 180 grain .357 loadings hit harder and penetrate deeper, but .38 Special +P is easier for the average person to control.

Just get the +P .38 SP 158 grain Lead Semi Wad-Cutter Hollow point, that several posters have recommended. Or as an alternative the Speer 135 grain +P. You will be well served by either one.

 

[Warhammer]

In reading Buffalo Bore's description of their +P loads they made this point:

Short (2 to 2.5 inch) barreled revolvers have short ejectors. Those short ejectors typically used on 2 inch to 2.5 inch barreled revolvers are not long enough to fully eject 357 magnum brass. So if you are forced into a situation where you need to reload your weapon under fire, you will find yourself picking your fired/empty 357 brass out of the cylinder one at a time...

I think that's actually a pretty good point.

 

[Deaf Smith]

If it's a 5 shot J frame airweight style gun, use Cor-bon DPX ammo!

If a steel frame 5 shot J size gun, Cor-Bon 158gr LSWHP. Clocks out at 850 fps from a 2 inch tube.

If a heavier six shooter, like a M10 2 inch snub or M19 .357, I'd use Buffalo Bore 158gr LSWHP ammo. Makes 1100 from a 2 3/4 inch Speed Six .38!

Deaf

 

[RWK]

Warhammer . . .

I too read Buffalo Bore's caution re ejection. For whatever it is worth, that has not been a problem with my SP-101. The spent cartridge cases extend far enough that I am able simply to place the cylinder "butt down" and lightly tap, and the brass drops free.

 

[Webleymkv]

While there are many good choices in .38 Special, the two that seem to get the most praise are the "FBI load" (158grn LSWCHP +P as loaded by Remington, Winchester, and Buffalo Bore) and Speer's 135grn +P Short Barrel Gold Dot. The Speer loading is actually designed to perform better than other loadings from short barrels, not just to be more pleasant. If you look at the bullet of the Speer, you'll notice that it has a much larger hollowpoint cavity, this is to facilitate expansion even at relatively low velocities. While both the Speer and FBI loadings are excellent, if you're using a lightweight gun I think I might gravitate a bit more towards the Speer as jacketed bullets seem to resist jumping crimp more than lead ones do.

In .357 Magnum, it depends a lot on the shooter. Even from a short barrel, you can get very impressive ballistics from a .357 Magnum but it comes at the price of recoil, which can be excessive in small revolvers. From a purely ballistics standpoint, magnum loadings with bullets of 140 grn and heavier are best as they tend to lose less velocity from short barrels than their lighter, faster counterparts. Cor-Bon 140grn JHP, Winchester 145grn Silvertips, and the 158grn SJHP loadings from Winchester, Remington, and Federal are all good short barrel performers in .357 Magnum. If recoil is an issue, you might be better off using one of the "mid-range" or "medium velocity" .357 Magnum loadings. Good choices in this category include Remington's 125grn Golden Saber, Speer's 135grn Short Barrel Gold Dot (this loading is quite mild and really isn't all that much faster than the .38 +P SBGD), and the various 110grn SJHP loadings from Winchester, Remington, and Federal.

As far as ejecting shorter cases, Ruger SP101's and Colt snubbies have a longer ejector rod than short barreled S&W's. This is because S&W's lock at the end of the ejector rod while newer Rugers (the old Security, Speed, and Police Service Six's locked up like a S&W) and Colts do not. Thusly, Rugers and Colts don't have to have the locking mechanism and can have a longer rod. Even so, I've never found a short ejector rod to be an issue so long as proper reloading technique (point the revolver straight up and give the ejector rod a sharp rap).

 

[Warhammer]

I'm really liking what I'm reading about the Hornady Critical Defense line. I think I might get a box each in .38+P and .357 and see what I think about them. Anyone else have experience/advice/comments about these loads?

 

[rdrancher]

Interesting read here. http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunition/pocket_dynomite/

rd

 

[LightningJoe]

As the years go by, I grow increasingly conservative about guns. The new-fangled, "magic beans" ammo just doesn't intrigue me. 158-grain LSWCHP for .38 Special. That's what I say. +P if you must. Otherwise, a snubnose may not be the right kind of gun for you.

Whizbang ammo is for wonderguns.

 

[B.N.Real]

You have only five shots.

You might be taking on a knife wielding punk and his friend.

You need to be effective with just where you shoot him (or them,if necessary).

You also need to make sure they don't close on you fast enough to lunge at you and stab you after you have just killed them but they don't realize it yet.

If you can see it quickly and not get too close to the bad guy to get it,make sure you save any weapon the guy tried to use against you before withdrawing from the area if possible to call police.

A speedloader is nice but relatively slow and you would rather not have to depend on it,if there are multiple people trying to rob,attack or possibly kill you.

This is'nt television.

The attackers/robbers are'nt going to give you any choice or chance and a bunch of talking usually is just the bad guy sizing you up for when he can complete his attack on you.

You want to live and frankly they could give a blank about you.

But as others have said,anything you can do ahead of time to prevent the attack is certainly better then being where you know it might happen.

Don't feel alone about rnot being able to run away.

I am too old and too slow to outrun a twenty year old guy with a knife ready to ventilate my chest or back to get my empty wallet.

 

[ClydeFrog]

3" snub barrels, Ruger SP101, Taurus small frame revolvers...

To the post about short ejector rods, it's a valid complaint BUT some firms like Taurus-USA & Smith and Wesson market snub revolvers with longer rods or better designs. I like the slightly larger 3" barrel models like the L frame 686+ or the Ruger SP101. They are not as small as a Ruger LCR or S&W 442 but spent rounds can drop faster than a older style J-frame(short ejector rod style).
As for pre-fragmented loads like Magsafe SWAT Glaser Safety Slugs, Hornady TAP, etc they have had engineering/design changes & improved designs. New versions can work great for close protection or back-up uses. To me it's unfair to knock a design or feature based on 10/20 year old information. Not all "whiz-bang" or "super-wow" rounds are worth the $$$(like ExtremeShockUSA or the old ThunderZap) but I wouldn't rail against all handgun fragmented loads.

 

[Hosses]

@ Webley

Bumping an old thread here, but do you have any information on the 158gr .357 from Gold Dot?


Someone on youtube did some testing to show velocity of some bullets out of a 2" SP101. The Remington 125gr did a whopping 12xx FPS. The Gold Dot's came in at only 9xx FPS.

I've been trying to decide on a .357 defense load for my new snub nose SP101. What a PITA this search for ammo has been.

 

[MashieNiblick]

For all those advocating FBI loads or .357mag for PD, i will now use physics to disprove this ignorance.

The FBI needs/may need to get through all kinds of barriers w/ bullet, such as, but not limited to:
- car doors
- windows
- house doors

Above are the only reasons whatsoever one would ever wish to carry non hollow point 158gr bullets. For penetration through hard, solid objects.

Unless you firingline.com guys and gals spend your nights on street corners expecting drive-bye attacks this is not the recommended round.

kinetic energy = mass * velocity^2

As you can see velocity is much more important than mass with respect to the delivery of energy into one's target. And all things the same, the lighter the bullet- the more velocity.

Today's modern hollow points are made for/to limit penetration in soft targets as one will never fully know what is behind one's target in a PD situation.

.357mag is overkill, and you may hit a baby behind your ~0.001% chance of ever encountering a self defense situation. Moreover, your followup shots will be less rapid and less accurate.

Here in Texas at least, whoever releases the bullet is 100% liable for impacts even in a successful self defense situation where the bullets passes through target and hits an innocent behind.

That said, Fiocchi makes a 110gr xtp hollow point bullet, .38 special + p with 1100 fps muzzle velocity for like ~$25/50rnd. This is ideal with respect to penetration, energy transfer, economics, and followup shots.

The new Hornady Critical Defense 110gr .38 special + p may be marginally better with respect to penetration if target is in heavy clothing, but they are like ~$25/25rnd, and that will be the only case where this is so.

That is all.

 

[Sarge]

Hosses,

My 2 1/4" Ruger SP101 got 1295 with Federal 125 JHP; 1302 with CCI Blazer in the same weight; around 1150 (lost my notes & need to clock these again) with 145 Silvertips.“Alaska Backpacker” (local to Anchorage?) .357's using a 200 grain hard-cast, gas-checked LBT produced 970 fps.

Hope that helps.

 

[Hosses]

@ Mash:

If you're carrying a full sized .357 in an urban setting, then I'd agree that a .357 magnum load is probably a bit much. However, we're talking about snub nosed .357's here. A lot of velocity is lost.

@ Sarge:

Thanks for the info. Do you know what the expansion was like on the Federal (hydrashock, I assume?)? How was the control-ability for follow up shots?

 

[zxcvbob]

I like .38 Special 158 grain LSWCHP's, but another load that doesn't get enough attention is full-power .38 Special 148 double-ended wadcutters. The main drawback to them is they are hard to use with a speedloader. (so load up your gun with wadcutters, and carry lead HP or RNFP's in your speed loader.)

 

[Jimmy10mm]

Years ago I carried a 640 but sold it because it was too heavy. Replaced it with the 340PD and carried that for 7 years. Sold it and replaced it with a couple of Kahrs in 40 and in 380. I ran up on another 640 a month or two ago and bought it.

Took it to the range and shot some 357 and some +P through it. With boot grips the 357 was punishing to the shooter. With Herrett's trooper stocks (it came with them) it wasn't too bad. With either grip the weight of the 640 tamed the +P recoil to the point where I found it quite comfortable. I imagine if I was to put some Houge rubber grips on it would be even more comfortable to shoot regardless of ammo.

Around here we have to settle for what is on the shelf and I've never had the opportunity to try the new ammo that is prioritized for snubs. One of these days if I run up on some I will. Anyhow, point is that what grips are on the snub make a significant difference in the recoil IME.

 

[stevieboy]

A very timely thread for me. I'm a proud new owner of a S & W Model 19 2 1/2" that will be my primary carry gun. I've been doing some research and I've discovered that Buffalo Bore makes three non +P .38 Special rounds that it describes as "Standard Pressure Short Barrel Low Flash Heavy .38 Special Ammunition." These are: 158 Soft Lead 158gr. SWC; 150gr. Hard Cast Wadcutter; and 125gr. JHP. It claims that the soft lead SWCs will NOT cause barrel leading because it is gas checked.

I'm curious and let me add my question to that of the OP. Any of you have any experience with these rounds? I shoot plenty of Magnum and +P rounds through my 4 and 6" revolvers so I'm not faint of heart. But I also know that in a desperate situation getting the gun back on target quickly may actually be more important than shooting powerful rounds. I'm really attracted to this standard pressure ammo because it will, I think, enable faster target acquisition. What do y'all think?