I know that bullet technology has advanced and that there are now loads specifically designed for short-barrel handguns. I also know that what works best with a 4-6" barrel may not work as well with a 2" barrel. So, what is the best personal defence round for a 2"-barreled .357 Mag snubby? Are there .38 Spl +P loads out there that would actually work better than a .357 load in this application? Which bullet weight/bullet design works best from such a short barrel? I appreciate you input!
Best .357 Mag/.38Spl+P for a 2" snub?
- Thread starter Warhammer
- Start date
gearchecker
New member
You can depend on either Speer Gold Dot or Hornaday Critical Defense for your PD needs. There are others but these 2 have excellent track records and are used by numerous law enforcement agencies for their effectivness.
Ammo designed for short barrels are generally lower power to reduce the muzzle blast and quiet the report. With that, you lose speed and penetration power.
Ammo designed for short barrels are generally lower power to reduce the muzzle blast and quiet the report. With that, you lose speed and penetration power.
spacecoast
New member
True, but someone has sure convinced a lot of people that $1 per round ammo gives you some kind of edge...
To the OP, I believe that a heavier, slower bullet loses a smaller fraction of its energy/momentum when fired from a snub revolver because it doesn't exit the barrel as quickly as a lighter, fast round (which has correspondingly less time to accelerate under pressure). For that reason, I think a 158 gr. LSWCHP .38 +P like the Remington R38S12 is a good choice. Also, Speer makes a short barrel .38 +P load (presumably with a VERY fast powder) for snub nose applications.
From a "protect your hearing" perspective, I would NEVER advocate firing a .357 supersonic round in an ears-unprotected situation, unless there was absolutely no alternative for protecting your life. Damage is dependent on the individual, of course, but it CAN'T be good for your long term hearing. No handgun round is, for that matter, but the .357 is particularly nasty decibel-wise.
.25 ACP 155.0 dB
.32 LONG 152.4 dB
.32 ACP 153.5 dB
.380 157.7 dB
9mm 159.8 dB
.38 S&W 153.5 dB
.38 Spl 156.3 dB
.357 Magnum 164.3 dB
.41 Magnum 163.2 dB
.44 Spl 155.9 dB
.45 ACP 157.0 dB
.45 COLT 154.7 dB
(From http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml)
No, this isn't quite correct. The short barrel ammo has powder designed to ignite and burn more quickly so that the bullet exits with a higher velocity than the "normal" powder. The "normal" powder will have higher velocities in the longer barrels because the powder has more time to burn.
Even a lower end .357 magnum round will have a higher velocity than a .38 spl +p from a two inch revolver. However, velocity is only one part of the equation. You have to look at the bullet construction and, most importantly, the terminal ballistics of the actual load and bullet. A bonded hollow point +p .38 spl may be better than a particular .357 magnum JHP. In fact, some bullets can be driven beyond their design velocities and perform relatively poorly as a result.
I have a 340PD scandium/titanium 2"bbl revolver. I've had it 7 years and shot a few cylinders of magnum and a few of +P and that is all. I found with the magnum rounds the recoil was severe enough to make getting back on target accurately with speed difficult. Not so bad with the +Ps. IME I wouldn't call either of them 'pleasant' to shoot. YMMV.
BTW, I like shooting 44spl, magnum and 10mm so I'm not someone unfamiliar with recoil and muzzle blast.
Rampant_Colt
New member
One more vote for the +P 158gr LSCHP .38 Special
Rampant_Colt
New member
Federal 125gr & 158gr Nyclad HP are excellent choices, but only the 125gr load is currently available.
Both the .357 Mag and .38 Spcl Remington 125gr Golden Saber are excellent choices for snubnoses as well.
Speer 135gr Short Barrel Gold Dot
Hornady 110gr Critical defense
Buffalo Bore makes a hot 158gr +P LSWCHP
Both the .357 Mag and .38 Spcl Remington 125gr Golden Saber are excellent choices for snubnoses as well.
Speer 135gr Short Barrel Gold Dot
Hornady 110gr Critical defense
Buffalo Bore makes a hot 158gr +P LSWCHP
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I respectfully suggest Buffalo Bore's recent 158 grain .38 Special +P LSWCHP/gas check round; this is an improvement on the venerable, long-proven and highly effective FBI load, and it provides 1000 fps muzzle velocity (351 foot pounds muzzle energy). Given the 158 grain LSWCHP’s (especially +P loads) documented expansion and lethality and the aforementioned velocity and energy figures, I believe this is a real “man stopper” in snub-nosed revolvers so many experienced individuals favor for personal and back-up carry.
Top .38spl +P and +P+ rounds for J frame-short barrels...
For small frame DA revolvers in .357magnum or .38spl +P, I'd check into the following: the Speer Gold Dot 135gr .38spl +P JHP(short barrel), the Corbon 110gr +P+ JHP, the Corbon DPX .38spl round, the Magsafe SWAT .38spl +P, the Buffalo-Bore 158gr lead semi-wadcutter HP +P .38spl, the Winchester Ranger T .38spl +P round, the Remington Golden Saber 110gr JHP in .357 or .38spl +P. Other defense or well made loads from Federal, Hornady, DoubleTap Ammo, or Magtech(Guardian Gold) are on the market but many savvy DA revolver shooters stick with the 110gr or 125-135gr .38spl +P loads.
For .357magnum many like the 110gr JHP or 125gr JHP. Most popular brands will do great; Corbon, Winchester, Remington, Federal, etc.
For small frame DA revolvers in .357magnum or .38spl +P, I'd check into the following: the Speer Gold Dot 135gr .38spl +P JHP(short barrel), the Corbon 110gr +P+ JHP, the Corbon DPX .38spl round, the Magsafe SWAT .38spl +P, the Buffalo-Bore 158gr lead semi-wadcutter HP +P .38spl, the Winchester Ranger T .38spl +P round, the Remington Golden Saber 110gr JHP in .357 or .38spl +P. Other defense or well made loads from Federal, Hornady, DoubleTap Ammo, or Magtech(Guardian Gold) are on the market but many savvy DA revolver shooters stick with the 110gr or 125-135gr .38spl +P loads.
For .357magnum many like the 110gr JHP or 125gr JHP. Most popular brands will do great; Corbon, Winchester, Remington, Federal, etc.
Rampant_Colt
New member
Avoid using the Magsafe stuff - especially the SWAT load because it uses a bullet filled with epoxy and has inadequate penetration
Avoid RBCD, Glaser safety Slug and Extreme Shock ammunition for a whole variety of reasons as well
Avoid RBCD, Glaser safety Slug and Extreme Shock ammunition for a whole variety of reasons as well
Dear RWK: Thanks for that info. on Buffalo Bore. Are those figures for the 2" barrel? I have a delima. Around here knives are a weapon of choice among the local punks and in this heat at times all I have is a S&W 642 in my front pocket. Iv'e been told that this situation is hopeless against a knife at close range by an expert, you know just roll over and die. Well, I will at the minimun do my best to take the attacker with me, or maybe win the encounter. I've been thinking of getting a 640 as you know is a 2" pocket 357 to deal with this growing problem. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks in advance. Lyle
If you can't shoot faster than the other guy, shoot straighter. Chic Gaylord
If you can't shoot faster than the other guy, shoot straighter. Chic Gaylord
Eagle,
I recommend you go to this page (http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=108), which provides a good deal of detailed technical information re this load, including achieved velocities for specific models and barrel lengths. Generally, however, the figures I cited are for snubbies, such as two-inch S&W J Frames and 2.25-inch Ruger SP-101.
I am FAR from a self-defense expert, however, please allow me to express a respectful opinion re your "dilemma." I would agree that if some felonious critter gets within arm-length (knife range) you probably have a major problem. Therefore, perhaps the key is excellent situational awareness and intuition -- listen to that "gut feeling" -- that keeps you away from those situations. I fully realize that there are times when a confrontation cannot be avoided; however, in most cases outstanding SA combined with avoiding likely danger zones/times (whenever possible) may preclude that fight, which is a fine alternative.
Please forgive my forwardness in expressing the foregoing opinion.
I recommend you go to this page (http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=108), which provides a good deal of detailed technical information re this load, including achieved velocities for specific models and barrel lengths. Generally, however, the figures I cited are for snubbies, such as two-inch S&W J Frames and 2.25-inch Ruger SP-101.
I am FAR from a self-defense expert, however, please allow me to express a respectful opinion re your "dilemma." I would agree that if some felonious critter gets within arm-length (knife range) you probably have a major problem. Therefore, perhaps the key is excellent situational awareness and intuition -- listen to that "gut feeling" -- that keeps you away from those situations. I fully realize that there are times when a confrontation cannot be avoided; however, in most cases outstanding SA combined with avoiding likely danger zones/times (whenever possible) may preclude that fight, which is a fine alternative.
Please forgive my forwardness in expressing the foregoing opinion.
Colorado Redneck
New member
RWK makes an excellent point. years ago my son and I studied karate under a 3rd degree black belt that had been a professional kick boxer of some renound. He also worked as a professional body guard part time. interesting guy.
He stressed to his students constantly that avoiding actual fighting was the best alternative. he often said that running was perfectly acceptable, and there is no shame associated with that. Only as the last resort would he adovcate fighting.
Same deal with the knife wielding punks mentioned above. Once the gun comes out, all bets are off as you may be at the point of no return. Avoiding these guys is the best thing you can do. Carry the gun, practice a lot, if possible attend training for self defense. But in my opinion, don't get the heat out unless you are sure you have to in order to survive.
He stressed to his students constantly that avoiding actual fighting was the best alternative. he often said that running was perfectly acceptable, and there is no shame associated with that. Only as the last resort would he adovcate fighting.
Same deal with the knife wielding punks mentioned above. Once the gun comes out, all bets are off as you may be at the point of no return. Avoiding these guys is the best thing you can do. Carry the gun, practice a lot, if possible attend training for self defense. But in my opinion, don't get the heat out unless you are sure you have to in order to survive.
Dear RKW: Thanks much for the link and your thoughtful comments. Those are impressive balistics for a 2" barrel. I would have way more confidence in my 642. It's accurate and fits my hand well. It will put 5 shots in a quarter size group at 21' with 158 LRN less than an inch above the POI. Your post saved me the trouble of trying to trade and make a deal on a 640. I appreciate your input Colorado Redneck. I have bad feet and knees so running is out, but the awareness stuff is great, along with avoidance, and watching the distance. It's a problem in our area that is a real possibility to have to deal with, Thanks Respectfuly, Lyle