Back Country Bandit - A question of Ethics

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ZeSpectre

New member
oh man, I just had a really SAD image of dragging that guy out
...BUMP, oh sorry 'bout that rock.
...bump, oh didn't see that ditch
...THUMP, woah that rock was even bigger than the last one
...splash, well we needed to get across the river
...bump, (and so on for a few miles)
 
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ibfestus

New member
Some places they call it ...

... murder? Real case. It happened to a guy I knew in AZ. In that case they were drinking and the "victim" pulled a knife and demanded money. The "murderer" managed to grab him and take the blade away but in the process, stabbed the vic in the leg. The "murderer" then went home and slept it off and the other guy bled out. A witness came forth and a life without parole sentence was handed out.

Yeah, I would have to try to get the guy some help and would keep his weapon as evidence of the robbery attempt.

Might not be a good outcome no matter what you do.
 
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pesta2

New member
What you do is inform the local authorities as soon a possible.

Any delay in that will not stand up to well in court once his relatives sue you for a wrongful death suit since you had to leave him to get help and not try to save him from bleeding to death. Then you have to find a new place to live and phone number change since you will be harassed by everyone that person knew saying “he was a good man and did not need to be shot like that.” Then there will be people trespassing on your property putting up a make shift memorial with teddy bears and candles.
 
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obxned

New member
Go through his pockets for spare change, pick up my brass 'cause it's bad to litter, and then ........ Humm, I am not sure what to do next. I probably need to think about it for a while, maybe days.

That's what I'd want to do, but I would probably make sure he was 100% unarmed, take his boots and the firearm he had tried to shoot me with, take his ID and take some pictures of the scene and the not-yet-dead guy, and then go for help.
 
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Bigfatts

New member
I would patch him up as best I could and would then leave him to go get help. I am in no kind of shape to let some nut job ride MY horse while I beat feet 10-20 miles to get HIM to safety. I'm afraid he would be on his own until I got someone to take care of him.
 
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T. O'Heir

New member
You make sure he doesn't have another weapon, call for assistance and render first aid. If you don't, you're as bad as he is.
 
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Trapper L

New member
In your scenario you have a major issue- you have no witnesses to the events as you have presented them. If the man dies, his family will sue you for everything you have earned and probably in the future for wrongful death. The jurys have been more than generous about this. If the man lives, he will sue you for everything you have or ever will have as his story is going to be completely different from yours and YOU were shooter and HE is the one injured. That's why the old South Texas Three S's works so well. Shoot, Shovel, Shutup. Works every time.
 
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BillCA

New member
The majority of responses, so far, indicate people would attempt to do something in the way of involving the authorities. At about 9 to 4 (discounting several non-sequitur answers) most folks say they would do so.

To be honest, I overlooked the idea of using a cell phone entirely. :eek: But there are still places without service - thankfully.

Applesanity said:
Begs the painfully nagging, obvious question: then, are you no better than him?
Click to expand...

This is the question and attitude I expected someone to raise. However I think ZeSpectre made an excellent point when he said:
Ethically and morally I don't think you owe much to someone who just threatened your life. It's a question of problem ownership and the bad guy created the situation he wound up in.
Click to expand...

I've often said that criminals are merely self-employed and it should their burden to make sure their medical and life insurance is paid up.

Keep the responses coming... I'm sure someone will post a fresh approach.
 
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azredhawk44

Moderator
I do a lot of backpacking and hiking and I've never come up with a good solution to this campfire problem.:p

I've got one buddy who swears by the three "S" principle... shoot, shovel, shut up. Probably got it from Unintended Consequences. I highly doubt it was from experience.

I've never been out on horseback or on ATV, so there's no "beast of burden" to carry the attacker for me. I'd secure him while having my weapon at the ready to respond to hidden weapons of his own. If an animal eats him... tough ****s. I'd do what I could with my limited first aid knowledge, un-secure him and give him a pointy stick to protect himself if conscious. I'd arm him with the knowledge that I was going to find the nearest law officer who would be coming back here with paramedics to collect him.

I would use my shirt or other clothing to pick up his firearm and put it in my backpack as undisturbed as posssible, inform him he was under citizen's arrest, and that he was to stay in this place until officers and paramedics arrived to take custody.

I'm concerned that I might have an obligation to protect him from harm if I place him under citizen's arrest and then leave him though. Not sure how that would work out, but that's a LEGAL question rather than a MORAL one. Morally, I'm happy with that solution.
 
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44 AMP

Staff
Old West Solutions

Uncaring; Ride on.

Caring: wait around till he dies, then bury him.

Really caring: Mark the grave.

Noble Palladin; plug up the holes, throw hime over the horse, and take him to the nearest town. If he lives, take him to the doc. If he dies, take him to the undertaker. Go tell the sherrif what happened. See if there are any wanted posters for the guy, and claim reward if there are. Spend reward on whiskey and saloon girls.
 
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Southern_guy

New member
I'd take him with me. The popo would find his corpse out in the woods, and there would be no proof that you shot him in self defense. You'd probably get charged with murder, and always have the nagging worry that the body would be discovered. Would you continue to hunt that area knowing that a man's body was still out there, who died thanks to your inaction? The guilt would eat me alive.
 
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Trapper L

New member
Hows about a REAL scenario for you to consider. Put yourself in this situation and what would you do differently. You are riding fences on a very large ranch in South Texas- several hundred thousand acres. You approach a gate that has numerous locks on it for the oil field folks, tanker companies, etc. You get out of your truck, you leave the engine running, and you take your 30-30 Winchester carbine with you. As you open the locks and the gate swings open, you turn around to see a Mexican National running at you with a matchete in his hand over his head. You are less than 20 feet apart. Now before you read the rest of this post, what would you do?
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The ranch hand shot the man with the matchete in the thigh as he didn't want to kill him. It put the man on the ground. He was not alone and in fact, 8 others jumped up and ran away. The ranch hand called the Sheriff and an ambulance was also sent. The man was taken to the hospital, at tax payers expense, and was released after two weeks to officials that took him back across the border. The man now has Mexican doctors swearing in US courts that the man is permanently confined to a wheelchair. The Jury has awarded the scumbag $28,000,000.00 in damages and is suing for more. All because the ranch hand didn't want to kill the guy that was trying to kill him. And the reason for the attack- the Mexican was hot, thirsty, and didn't want to walk any more so he was going to kill the ranch hand and steal the truck. The 3 S's works better than anything else. If you can't stand the thought of having to defend yourself with deadly force and living with the results, you better stay at home and pray. The countryside is full of all kinds of dangers.
 
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22-rimfire

New member
In the original scenario, I think the first thing I would do is make sure the guy had no other firearms or weapons. I often have duct tape with me, and I think since he attacked me, I'd make use of the tape to bind him somewhat. I'd stop the bleeding if I could at that point too. If I had a camera, I'd take some pictures to document things before using the duct tape or moving evidence. Then I'd sit down and calm myself a bit and keep my eyes open for other people for a few minutes to decide what to do next.

As much as I wouldn't like to I'd try to give whatever first aid I could, stop the bleeding, and then probably haul him out of there on my ATV. I don't think I could carry a full sized man very far on foot unless that person meant an awful lot to me. In which case, I would look for help. Chances are the person would die being so far from civilization.
 
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Silvanus

New member
Stories like the one with the "Ranch hand" lead me to believe that it's better to get away as quickly as you can without leaving any evidence behind. Heard too many stories (especially in Europe) where the criminal goes free and the victim has to pay or go to jail. I wouldn't help the bastard.

A friend of mine got attacked in the street by some idiot with a knife a few years ago. He beat the **** out of him since he was lucky enough to get the knife out of the thugs hands. Guess what happened in court?
 
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Jseime

New member
First of all he would be dead to rights if he gave me the shot. However if i did only wound him I do know first aid and I would try my best to keep him alive until the police arrived. The chances of something like this happening out here where I'm from are pretty low. If I see someone else out in the hills its a neighbour or cousin nine times out of ten. The tenth time its just another deer hunter and we usually stop and have a B.S. about where the deer are even though they may be a complete stranger.
 
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