AR rifles for hunting?

[houser52]

I've hunted NC whitetails, coyotes and ground hogs exclusively with the MSR since 2008, my bolt guns rarely come out of the safe anymore.
Deer or coyotes are hunted with the 6.8SPC with a pass through on most and kills as dead as my 7/08.
The 223/556 are used on smaller critters such as ground hogs or coyotes.

 

[Colorado Redneck]

Knowing nothing about AR rifles, after doing some searches and reading a bit, it is obvious that there is a steep learning curve for a noob if inclined to build one. Lots of terminology is unfamiliar, and some specialised tools. Probably purchasing a complete unit would make more sense for me. I can see why shooters have gravitated to that type of gun. Flexibility.

 

[rickyrick]

It’s pretty much the easiest thing to do, as far as assembling things go.


All you need is a barrel nut wrench and pretty common tools

 

[PatientWolf]

All you need is a barrel nut wrench and pretty common tools

And access to YouTube. Videos will walk you right through it.

 

[doofus47]

Colorado Redneck:

Knowing nothing about AR rifles, after doing some searches and reading a bit, it is obvious that there is a steep learning curve for a noob if inclined to build one. Lots of terminology is unfamiliar, and some specialised tools. Probably purchasing a complete unit would make more sense for me. I can see why shooters have gravitated to that type of gun. Flexibility.

Definitely a learning curve.
Before I got my hands on an AR15 bulid kit, my prejudiced opinion was that the AR was a toy with too many TLP (tiny little parts) to be a combat weapon copy. After I built one, most of the TLP disappeared into the receiver and I began to appreciate the beauty of Stoner's design. There is a level of simplicity about the AR15 that astounds me when I consider how well the other goal--a light weight weapon--was achieved for 1950-60's era technology. The terminology is so unusual I think b/c the techniques for design were original for the time in a military rifle. Barrel nut? what??? Buffer tube? What???
Direct impingement was used by the Swedes (and maybe the French and others) before the M-16, but it was a first for many Americans.

Stoner's three part goal: accurate, light, simple is a hunter's dream, so it's no surprise that hunters have gravitated to the platform.

 

[zukiphile]

Knowing nothing about AR rifles, after doing some searches and reading a bit, it is obvious that there is a steep learning curve for a noob if inclined to build one. Lots of terminology is unfamiliar, and some specialised tools. Probably purchasing a complete unit would make more sense for me. I can see why shooters have gravitated to that type of gun. Flexibility.

Emphasis added.

I thought that too before I started. Sitting down with someone experienced with the pieces for maybe a half hour would remove that apprehension.

Doofus wrote it perfectly.

Before I got my hands on an AR15 bulid kit, my prejudiced opinion was that the AR was a toy with too many TLP (tiny little parts) to be a combat weapon copy. After I built one, most of the TLP disappeared into the receiver and I began to appreciate the beauty of Stoner's design. There is a level of simplicity about the AR15 that astounds me when I consider how well the other goal--a light weight weapon--was achieved for 1950-60's era technology.

Let me state the matter without adornment. I am a dope. If there is a wrong way to put something together, I've done it that way. When I had 1911s, they all had that idiot scratch across the left side.

With a little bit of focus and a youtube video, I built my first. If I did it, you can, and if you have a question, there's a fairly helpful internet out there. I've even had complete strangers offer me their tools, and supervised sessions to learn how to use them.


I can give you one excellent reason for not assembling your own. The knowledge is a curse that sets your imagination free and leads to subsequent builds.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Knowing nothing about AR rifles, after doing some searches and reading a bit, it is obvious that there is a steep learning curve for a noob if inclined to build one. Lots of terminology is unfamiliar, and some specialised tools. Probably purchasing a complete unit would make more sense for me. I can see why shooters have gravitated to that type of gun. Flexibility.

I once spent about six hours trying to hang a pair of decorative shelves on a wall and I can assemble a perfectly functioning AR15. One of the little appreciated benefits to the AR15 is there is just an immense knowledge base. So there is a ton of guidance on how to assemble, maintain, modify and troubleshoot them.

I mean, the most obscure problem you can imagine has likely been documented by at least two dozen people in writing, pictures, video and animated cutaway slide shows. If you ask a question on a more common issue in a gun forum, you can often have a correct answer in minutes.

The biggest problem with AR15s is the sheer volume of data, which gets people hung up on minutiae that is probably irrelevant to about 99% of the users.

 

[BWM]

I do think the AR is the most used gun and is the most own ! I think it has sold more than any long gun in the USA.

 

[stagpanther]

I get out and hunt when I can--but when I see other hunters most of em are carrying bolt guns, a few levers here and there. One of my best friends hunts exclusively with a grendel AR and he keeps his freezer filled year-round. More than once he's anchored multiple deer in the same group when they've happened by his stand.

My biggest problem with hunting with AR's is that I have so many of them I can never make my mind up which one to take--so I often end up carrying my 44 mag lever gun into the woods. I also have lots of good handguns and bolt guns to choose from, making decisions even harder.

 

[hdwhit]

Colorado Redneck wrote:
"Also, the AR-15, the most popular hunting rifle...."

The old saying is "Figures don't lie, but liars sure can figure."

I suppose you could count every AR-15 type rifle as one "model" and then subdivide the rest of the population by Manufacturer's Model (i.e. Remington 700s are a different model from Winchester 70s, etc.) and then further refine what is meant by "hunting" to eventually make that statement factual, but still grossly misleading.

 

[SPEMack618]

I hunt coyote and hogs with the AR platform exclusively. Oh, and armadillos.

I sorta get like the guy in Caddyshack going after Armadillos

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I sorta get like the guy in Caddyshack going after Armadillos

They are destructive little buggers when they start rooting through the landscaping for grubs.

 

[rickyrick]

I’m sure lots of people intend to hunt with their ARs, just like people buy bolt actions intending to hunt.

 

[SPEMack618]

They are destructive little buggers when they start rooting through the landscaping for grubs.

Yes. And vectors for disease. And destructive to the lady friend's flower beds and vegetable garden.

But given a Ruger AR-556, a couple of PMAGs, a Surefire x400, and a YETI cup full of coffee they know to fear the tubby guy on his patio.

 

[Nathan]

If I were building a varmint rifle today, it would be a 5.56 or 224 Valkyrie 20" rifle.

....for antelope, a 6.5 Creedmor.....

....for deer, a 308....

....for elk, a bolt gun in 300 win mag.


An AR15 would be a fine hunting rifle, but how realistic is the requirement for quick follow up shots? That is why a bolt gun is usually chosen. Basic bolt guns are cheap.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

But given a Ruger AR-556, a couple of PMAGs, a Surefire x400, and a YETI cup full of coffee they know to fear the tubby guy on his patio.

Lack of adequate backstop prohibits firearms for me, sadly. Not that I haven't been tempted to introduce a few of them to my Ruger Mk3 and Sparrow combo.

 

[JeepHammer]

You hunt with what you have.
With the $300 farm store AR clones, it's used a lot.
I'm a big fan of states restricting caliber to the game hunted, forcing idiots to use an appropriate caliber for the game in season.
I've seen too many deer gut shot by some idiot with a .223 AR or SKS or AK clone.
Sickens me every time I see it.

In my state, the .458 Socom became legal for deer.
Idiots paid twice retail to get them, then shot deer to pieces just because they could click off a dozen rounds...

What you can't get through the 'Black Rifle' bunch is, it's always been, and always will be first shot placement.
If they think they don't have to practice shooting because they can click off 2 or 3 rounds per second, this crap is going to get worse.

Some history for the ignorant,
(Ignorant isn't stupid, just means you don't have an education in the particular subject, while stupid is you know the difference but do the same thing anyway)

The .218 Bee is the grand father of the current .223
It is a rimmed .22 cal, center fire round with .218 bore & .222-.223 rifled groove diameter.
Beginning to see where the .222-.223 family came from?
This was exclusively a small varmint round, never intended for large or dangerous game, and the predominant rifle at the time was tube fed lever action, so flat or round nose bullets in the 30 to 45 grain range.

Rifling was 1:16" or 1:14" depending on the rifle manufacturer.

The father of your AR-15,
When bolt action became popular, Remington being a bolt rifle maker, introduced the .222 Rem round.
This was a modern powder, high velocity bottle necked case specifically designed to outshoot the Winchester .218 Bee & .219 Zipper.
Rimless for smoother feeding in bolt rifles, and with a pointed nose, this round was designed to be fired from a post WWII rifle with available optics.
With 35-50 grain jacketed & pointed bullets, this round could reach 3,000-3,500 FPS and made a mess out of smaller varmints.
Again, light weight bullets out of a relatively slow barrel twist, usually 1:14" and later with heavier bullets, 1:12" twist.

The .223 Rem is slightly more powder volume version of the .222 and was adopted by the US military & NATO as the 5.56x45 NATO round.
The military, being schizophrenic, had to mess with everything...
Starting at 52 grain bullet weight, 1:12" barrel twist rate and IMR extruded (stick) powder, the little round retained it's 'Inherently Accurate' status,
And in the early Eugene Stoner rifles it worked fairly well in short range jungle enviormental.

Then the military got involved...
Bullet weights shot up because ballistic testing (at ranges the round wasn't intended to shoot, on animal sizes the round was never intended to be used on) didn't turn out well.

The next idiot idea was to change from much cleaner burning IMR powder to old military ball powder that was corrosive and murder on the gas system.

The next stupid idea was to declare the rifle 'No Clean', not developing or including a cleaning kit.

Now, the schizophrenia continues,
The military continues to shorten the barrel, increase bullet weight and expect the same or better results in velocity & terminal ballistics...
The stupid heavy bullets (77 to 99 grains) require barrel twist rates that damage the barrel, in the neighborhood of 1:6"-1:7" commonly...

And now that patents have expired & the design is in the common domain, every fly by night outfit that can crank out parts is doing so with little or no quality control.
Nothing like getting your $299 farm store & discount gun store special with it's $12 made in China barrel & plastic sights that shoots 'Minute Of Barn Door' groups...
But most guys buying AR clones don't care, there are 30-100 rounds in the magazine so accuracy of any kind isn't an issue...

"Hunting with an AR" is an oxymoron.
It's all about the FIRST shot, not the 30th!

I CAN build a sub MOA AR clone, it's not going out the door for $299 or even $599...
(A good barrel can run $500)
And it's not going to be sub MOA very long if you click off 30 round mags of discount ammo.

 

[Cosmodragoon]

JeepHammer, forgive me but I'm a little lost here. Are you saying that restrictions are good because they force stupid or inexperienced people to hunt with more powerful rounds at lower capacity?

I get it that a bunch of new or inexperienced people might buy what looks like the "coolest" rifle. Lower costs lower the entry barrier for more new people at the same time. A few of those people might then go out and act unsportsmanlike with their new sport rifle. When you say "black rifle bunch", are you assuming that this bad behavior is representative of anyone who hunts with an AR-15? (Also, is every bolt or lever guy a saint?)

BTW, most of the woodchucks and coyotes I've taken have been taken with .218 Bee. Given, that was largely before internet and cell phones.

 

[Danoobie]

JMHO, no stats.( Which, BTW, I believe would clearly show an advantage to scoped
bolt action rifles , primarily 308, 270, and 30.06) IF you do due diligence, get a solid
AR lower/upper, with a 22- 24" bull barrel, and quality parts, with a good scope, you can build
an AR-15 every bit as accurate as mine; @ .5 MOA, and more accurate than any bolt action
hunting rifle I've got. There is credence to the accuracy of a well-built AR-15 as a MSR, which by nature of the caliber, would not be optimal for use as a weapon.

 

[stagpanther]

I also hunt archery--you should hear the absolutely compelling reasons why any hunter worth their salt should never need a firearm of any kind to hunt with.