AR mfgs - who will still be around?

tirod

Moderator
As for the AR craze winding down, not so much. Even when the gun is superceded, demand will remain high. 25 milllion prior service men and women will keep sales up, just the same as the Garand - but we won't likely ever get to purchase a select GI model from the DCM sales floor for $400. Not going to happen.

Retro and collector versions are already well established, I suspect there have been more trigger charging uppers sold by Nodak than originally made. And the variations over the last 45 years are numerous, leaving the field open to collectors who want one of each to represent that specific configuration. We've see the racks of Mausers and 03's over the years, there are shots of the Garands etc, now it's the M16's turn.

That likelihood isn't going to go away by dismissing it as a passing fad. The Vietnam reenactors are already getting good attendance. Consider a rack with a trigger charging early M16 in brown furniture, an early issue M16 Anothing in grey anodizing with hand painted green furniture, another all black, then with the FA, changes in charging handles, sights, the A2, port firing weapons, CAR's, XM's, service variations from the Navy, Air Force, and Marines, add in a Canadian and other foreign makers, Bushmaster, LWRC, LMT, Remington, FN, oh my.

All issue. That's a whole bunch of roll marks - don't forget Armalite, GM, and others early on.

If people are collecting M1 Carbines how much more so are they already collecting AR's? Some have been for over 20 years.

7.5 pistol, 10.5 pistol, 14.5 SBR, 16" AR15, 20" M16, SDM-R, Marine Corp M27 IAR, HK's (not to demean them by just one listing of their numerous examples,) ad infinitum.

Haven't even touched the AR10 and their current list of fielded weapons.

Did some shoot themselves in the foot? Maybe, maybe not. Going into the consumer retail business means exposing yourself to meet the expectations of the public, who frequently do read between the lines in the marketing efforts and actually demand that the hype deliver. Milspec contracts are in their way easier to deal with - a few points of contact, well spelled out terms, and specific measurable performance criteria. Contract sales are a lot less about overexpectant consumers and reality based demands. You can negotiate or correct an interpretation with a single source purchaser a lot easier than the collective and widely varied broken expectations of a consumer public who can't even write down exactly what they really wanted. Bluntly, most don't have a clue as to what range and target they plan to use the thing on. What they really want is a substantial increase in self esteem and admiration for even owning it.

Playing footsie with their ego isn't easy. Exactly why most would never even consider a job in retail waiting on the public . . .

Nope, the AR is here to stay, and for a very long time. Saying it's a passing fad would be like an '03 owner grumbling about the kids and their newfangled self loading Garands. Yeah, we might need them 'cause the Germans are doing it too, but real men crank bolt handles in combat, right?

These days, it's the Kurds, and they are faced with AK's and M16's in the hands of ISIS. Nope, I wouldn't volunteer to do that. It's 2014 and the traditional gun market is fading away. Take a moment to notice among the larger makers - who doesn't offer an AR type rifle?
 

BarryLee

New member
I firmly believe we will continue to see ARs and 1911s made with the Colt name on them. Now, obviously the actual ownership of the company is probably going to change over the next few years, but lot’s of value in the Colt brand and it’s not going anywhere.
 

rickyrick

New member
Some people want rifles with old names.

Something like colt goes down... Someone will pony up the dough to get the name.

I think t most ARs are frankenguns anyway. My opinion.

Will always be a market for parts people buy them to swap parts out
 

STEINER

New member
Colt might go.
Others might go.
The "Firingline.com." could go also.
This Website is stale to say the least.
A hundred other Firearm sites bring a lot more than this boring place.
Not knocking it. Just way too many more great places for current information.

Colt... Man I hope they didn't really pick up LWRC.
Great company but just like this site... all things come to an end enentually.
 
As others have said, it does not matter. Every thing AR 15 is interchangeable with any other AR15.

I think its time to buy again. Just waiting on a package deal for 5 lowers to add to the stash.
 

shaunpain

New member
Many have already come and gone but many manufacturers have decided to skip the middleman and have opened online storefronts, adding to the already daunting task of picking a rollmark you can live with. I think as long as a small manufacturer can offer something the big boys can't (better prices, better materials, fancy rollmarks or set screws in place of roll pins) then they'll keep selling. There are plenty of people buying components and that's a good market these days. I think the trend is moving away from complete rifles, but maybe that's just what I think. I think it's fantastic that there are so many manufacturers of AR-15 rifles and even more AR-308/AR-10 rifles and components available. Heck, we're about to see a whole new industry of American AK manufacturers flood the market in the future (you wait and see). It's never been more exciting and it's only getting better every day.

I'm sure plenty of people prefer to buy complete rifles from their manufacturer of choice, but I would beg to argue that most of the AR pattern rifles on your range any given day are custom builds, or at the very least, completed uppers and lowers slapped together.
 
Colt might go.
Others might go.
The "Firingline.com." could go also.
This Website is stale to say the least.
A hundred other Firearm sites bring a lot more than this boring place.
Not knocking it. Just way too many more great places for current information.

Colt... Man I hope they didn't really pick up LWRC.
Great company but just like this site... all things come to an end enentually.

well...+...bye.jpg
 

Fishbed77

New member
Ahem...less than one year from when this thread was started...

Colt files for chapter 11.
Gun maker Colt Defense LLC said late Sunday it is filing for chapter 11 bankruptcy-court protection, amid business-execution issues and a heavy debt burden.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/colt-def...day-1434310925

I still don't see Colt going anywhere. They will reorganize, be bought out, and likely keep churning out product until the next time the cycle comes around.

The fact still remains that Colt sells just about every product they make.
 
The problem here is Colt mfgs a very limited/narrow range of products...

AR-15 - Lots of companies that make them just as good or better and/or cheaper
1911's - Lots of companies that make them just as good and better. Some cheaper, some not...

Where are the polymer framed pistols?
Where are the small pistols aimed at concealed carry?
Where are the revolvers for competition, CC, and average Joe?
Where are the bolt action rifles (both tactical and hunting versions)?

The Colt name will still be around, but even the Colt of today is not the same company that was started by Samuel Colt... The suits took over the company when they filed for bankruptcy the first time.

Their narrow-minded approach of relying on .gov contracts to make/sell M4s and produce a small quantity of 1911's and AR-15s for the buying public is their problem. Unless someone buys them and then turns the company around 180 degrees to market products to consumers, have some kind of innovation, and build what the masses want, they will fail again and again...
 

IdahoG36

New member
Adamantium
I'd bet after some market research of which name is more popular, either Bushmaster or DPMS will go away. I bet Remington will keep one around though.

If they got rid of the Bushmaster name, what name would the media use for any AR15 or AK47 that is ever mentioned in the news???:eek:
 

Palmetto-Pride

New member
If a start up company like PSA could afford to sell mil spec ARs for $600ish dollars then certainly a well established company like Colt could.......oops hold on the difference may be unions yep that's it! Or maybe they couldn't figure out a way to tell Uncle Sam his cost $1000+, but Joe Citizens is only $600ish for the same rifle......lol
 

Fishbed77

New member
If they got rid of the Bushmaster name, what name would the media use for any AR15 or AK47 that is ever mentioned in the news???

Sad but true.

If a start up company like PSA could afford to sell mil spec ARs for $600ish dollars then certainly a well established company like Colt could.......oops hold on the difference may be unions yep that's it! Or maybe they couldn't figure out a way to tell Uncle Sam his cost $1000+, but Joe Citizens is only $600ish for the same rifle......lol

Nailed it!

But I will say Colt has MUCH better QA/QC on their products than PSA (and I have quite a few PSA products I'm very happy with).

And that's definitely worth something.
 

rickyrick

New member
The only gripe I have with PSA is the shipping... Legendarily slow, but they are honest about it.

If PSA wasn't so slow, I'd have a couple of safes full of their rifles or rifles built from their parts.

I'm extremely happy with the kit I have from PSA. I've sourced my successive ar parts from other vendors.

Aero precision has good parts, unique reciever configurations.

I'm not sure how their newest line with a roll mark of a skull with a bullet hole in both sides is going to fare in the public opinion arena
 

ATW525

New member
The problem here is Colt mfgs a very limited/narrow range of products...

The problem with Colt has little to do with pricing or product selection. Colt is where it is today because of gross mismanagement and outrageous corporate greed that sucked every last penny out of the company while piling on hundreds of millions in debts.
 

HKFan9

New member
Quote:
Yet they are still here and doing well.....
I guess they weren't doing as well as you thought.....

Quote:
Colt I would say never needed to lower their AR prices,
You still stand by that statement.......

Yes, and Yes.

The reason they are filing was to do with share holders as I remember it, awhile ago they hired a firm to redo it in order to maybe NOT file, but it all hinged I believe on the share holders taking a lesser deal.

It's bad news for Colt but does not mean the end YET. Lets not forget MANY major companies have filed chapter 11 and are still around.

Colt's issue isn't their civilian sales, or their price tier, they are in the same ball park as a POS Bushmaster, and people still buy and swear by bolt. They lost big chucks of the Military contracts which I can imagine hurt their bottom line much greater than Billy-jo Blow preferring a Remaster Panter AR-15.

I will say the WORST AR I owned was an older Colt, but most are good rifles, that being said there are BETTER, for LESS or atleast the same price, I personally prefer BCM over a Colt.

Another DUMB move they made was trying to push an over priced bolt action rifle line when they were already hurting.

Based on personal experiece at work, The problem isn't selling Colt's the problem is GETTING them FROM COLT.
 

Palmetto-Pride

New member
HKFAN9 I wasn't trying to have a "ha ha I told you so moment" I truly hate to see any US gun manufacturer have problems.

Colt's issue isn't their civilian sales, or their price tier,

I have to disagree with you on that statement if they had the civilian sales like they should and could have had losing the military sales wouldn't have hurt them so bad. IF that famous Wal-Mart 6920 had been offered for $600ish dollars we wouldn't be having this conversation!
 

Ibmikey

New member
I have great feeling for my Colt rifles and pistols, each is beautifully created from steel and other metals and fires reliably. The pistols being produced today continue this great manufacturing history however the numbers being released appears to be quite small according to distributor stock levels. Unfortunately many of their designs are dated, although still popular, and as a result miss much of the current civilian and police market. While other companies were developing poly framed striker fired pistols Colt produced many variations of the SA 1911 style pistol, good firearms but the market is saturated with them at lesser prices. One thing i have found reading forums is the great numbers of consumers who " buy cheap" no matter what the product Colt has nothing in this line. Another group that demands attention is Law Enforcement, Colt made a feeble attempt at modifying a 1911 pistol to S/A, D/A and even producing some trouble prone models for sale to the public prior to realizing the pistol was flawed, ugly and fit a need that did not exist.
I hope Colt survives and along with it's current line is able to add up to date innovative products that are acceptable to today's consumer.
 

HKFan9

New member
I have to disagree with you on that statement if they had the civilian sales like they should and could have had losing the military sales wouldn't have hurt them so bad. IF that famous Wal-Mart 6920 had been offered for $600ish dollars we wouldn't be having this conversation!

Possibly, the way I look at it is Colt kind of lost touch to the newer generation of shooters for the most part. Colt has always been a strong name, but generally only the older generation revere them, almost to a fault.

Sure the snake series revolvers are held in high regards, but honestly they were never THAT good, the triggers were often terrible on them. Same goes for a lot of their 1911's. Their saving grave was quality parts that gun smiths could rework and make a good gun GREAT. I am sure I will get flamed for making such statements but it's generally true, many not ALL the time, but most production Colt's were just that.. PRODUCTION guns, not master pieces.

Once everyone and their brother stated producing 1911's Colt to me, kinda fell to the side lines. Sure they sell, and sold well to old timers or just generally stubborn people who declare "Colt is the original AKA the best" but later half of that statement just generally isn't true anymore. I am not playing brand loyalty but any mid production 1911 but XYZ brand are all in the same running as a Colt.

Their major problem from there is they simply DON'T get guns out their doors quick enough, therefore are never stocked well enough in stores. Top that with the fact for a long while there... Colt simply ignored the features MANY 1911 shooters liked/ wanted, to keep the old timers who declare blasphemy on a 1911 that dared to have a flat MSH, or front cocking serations, or HEAVENS FORBID a RAIL! :eek:

So to me, for awhile their 1911 line up was falling short, now double that with the fact that after the CLINTON AWB lifted, AR MFG's have been popping up like dandelions in May, and getting cheaper and cheaper. I am SURE that hurt Colt.

Their problem isn't quality, and I personally don't believe their issue is their price tier. Their 1911's are right there with a SA TRP / Kimber XYZ, and their AR's sell for decent prices depending on where you shop. Problem is the consumer market just wants CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP, and Colt just has been falling more and more behind the times, and they show up too late to the party. Their marketing department sucks. Say what you want about Kimber, and I know people like to rag on them and their glossy ads, but guess what, Kimbers are asked for by name, the Kimber reps know that( as I have shot with them a few times at a private event) , and they sell more 1911's that any other companies in a year combined, and they ride that wave.

And I still don't know why they tried a precision rifle line, I love precision rifles, but I don't think it was a good move on their behalf at that time.
 
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