AR mfgs - who will still be around?
- Thread starter precision_shooter
- Start date
This made me laugh out loud.
I work for a gun store, Colt is not going anywhere (he probably just has trouble getting them).
As for Bushmaster.. they are owned by Remington / Freedom Arms Group.... probably one of the biggest powers in the firearms industry right now, they will not be going anywhere. Del-Ton has a super strong following from the building community just like PSA, Black Rain I doubt will go anywhere, people who want to spend the coin love them.
Colt sells what they made.... just because they are on gunbroker... means Colt already sold them to a whole saler and then to a retailer (thats why they are for sale for you on gun broker) Just because they don't have bids doesn't mean people dont buy them, Gun broker is usually high for anything. I have cases full of Kimbers and Springers, Sigs, Remington R1.. you don't see a lot of Colts because they sell as fast as we get them.
Keep in mind Colt also just bought out LWRC so they can't be hurting all too badly.
When I think AR15, I think ABCD. Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt, DPMS. I'm sure there are equivalent guns, better guns, and worse guns out there, and I don't care - don't waste my time. For quality, performance, price, value, and cachet, those four have it all covered. Buy with confidence. Enjoy.
Dragline45
New member
I would be devastated if BCM went under. I just bought my first upper from them and plan on getting another eventually.
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Adamantium
New member
I'd bet after some market research of which name is more popular, either Bushmaster or DPMS will go away. I bet Remington will keep one around though.
It is my personal opinion that any industry growing this fast is a bubble. When will the bubble burst though? Who knows... It is safe to say all the start up shops who are just buying parts and assembling gun would be quick to die off. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Olympic go under either. I can't think of any company that has failed to increase the quality of their product over time as bad as them.
Beyond that I'd bet some of the higher quality "me too" type companies would be effected. LMT, POF, Rainier, maybe some others. They don't have the following of DD/BCM/Colt. It is hard to quantify how their products are that better than much cheaper options. Plus the genie is out of the bottle on Mil-spec parts at cut rate prices. The days of $200 for a mil-spec BCG are quickly going away.
I doubt the lower end makers will be all that hurt by a bursting bubble. If you think there is a limited market for cheap guns that only need to shoot every once in a while, you are spending too much time on the internet. That is the target market for most of the gun buying public right there.
It is my personal opinion that any industry growing this fast is a bubble. When will the bubble burst though? Who knows... It is safe to say all the start up shops who are just buying parts and assembling gun would be quick to die off. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Olympic go under either. I can't think of any company that has failed to increase the quality of their product over time as bad as them.
Beyond that I'd bet some of the higher quality "me too" type companies would be effected. LMT, POF, Rainier, maybe some others. They don't have the following of DD/BCM/Colt. It is hard to quantify how their products are that better than much cheaper options. Plus the genie is out of the bottle on Mil-spec parts at cut rate prices. The days of $200 for a mil-spec BCG are quickly going away.
I doubt the lower end makers will be all that hurt by a bursting bubble. If you think there is a limited market for cheap guns that only need to shoot every once in a while, you are spending too much time on the internet. That is the target market for most of the gun buying public right there.
Adamantium
New member
What are you even talking about? Predicting market trends is an exercise in speculation, it's not about facts.
Then his prices must be high, or the customers must be cheap we cant keep Colt handguns in stock... the 6920 meh... they come and go the same rate as the over priced Bushmasters.
The AR Market is saturated right now because of panic ordering during panic buying, so our back room is FILLED with AR's. Like I said... Colt can't be hurting badly to have just purchased LWRCI now can they?
Meh I wound't say that statement with out switching the B to BCM and the D to Daniel Defense. Even Armalite can be spotty at times, we have had a few issues with them.
we cant keep Colt handguns in stock... the 6920 meh... they come and go the same rate as the over priced Bushmasters.The AR Market is saturated right now because of panic ordering during panic buying, so our back room is FILLED with AR's. Like I said... Colt can't be hurting badly to have just purchased LWRCI now can they?
Meh I wound't say that statement with out switching the B to BCM and the D to Daniel Defense. Even Armalite can be spotty at times, we have had a few issues with them.
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Colt was rumored to be buying LWRC, which has an export contract for six8 carbines over seas. I suspect they will be around for a while.
Remington, however, is moving to Alabama, and has more than just DPMS or Bushmaster under their collective belt. It also includes Grizzly and other traditional brands.
With the market collapsing and sales down, some incentive exists to drop brand names. Bushmaster is the most sensitive and could add good will if they lost it. They do need something better than their old school name, tho, albeit they are supplying milspec guns on contract to the military now.
Most of the start up's won't survive simply due to traditional pressures. On average over 75% of companies fail during the first ten years. Spike's and BCM aren't immune, but they are tracking well. Smaller start ups less than five years old are much more at risk now because market share means they may not meet cash flow minimums to pay staff or even order parts. In the next two years - given that another panic can't lift sales enough - they will fold. Simple business stats and the nature of competition. The fittest survive.
There are already dozens of small roll mark makers obsolete, and likely dozens more will follow over the years. It's less a matter of which one of the smaller players, more of which big name will go under. Due to debt and market difficulties, I won't be surprised to see Cereberus shed the losers and leave just one to survive.
Remington, however, is moving to Alabama, and has more than just DPMS or Bushmaster under their collective belt. It also includes Grizzly and other traditional brands.
With the market collapsing and sales down, some incentive exists to drop brand names. Bushmaster is the most sensitive and could add good will if they lost it. They do need something better than their old school name, tho, albeit they are supplying milspec guns on contract to the military now.
Most of the start up's won't survive simply due to traditional pressures. On average over 75% of companies fail during the first ten years. Spike's and BCM aren't immune, but they are tracking well. Smaller start ups less than five years old are much more at risk now because market share means they may not meet cash flow minimums to pay staff or even order parts. In the next two years - given that another panic can't lift sales enough - they will fold. Simple business stats and the nature of competition. The fittest survive.
There are already dozens of small roll mark makers obsolete, and likely dozens more will follow over the years. It's less a matter of which one of the smaller players, more of which big name will go under. Due to debt and market difficulties, I won't be surprised to see Cereberus shed the losers and leave just one to survive.
I think a good generalized answer to the question posed is that, as a glut on the market is achieved, demand goes down, and the AR fascination fades, the majority of AR clone manufacturers will also fade into obscurity.
Quite frankly, my military experience with the M16 left me cold to the gun, and I have really never liked them. I have one* (AR15) just to say "I have one," but I really don't like it, and I really have zero interest when all you hear about is this black gun or that black gun and all the ridiculous rails, lights, lasers, butt wipers, can openers etc. that are sold as accessories for them.
Just a theory. YMMV
*I built it and the company that made my lower is already out of business. (Kaiser Defense.)
Quite frankly, my military experience with the M16 left me cold to the gun, and I have really never liked them. I have one* (AR15) just to say "I have one," but I really don't like it, and I really have zero interest when all you hear about is this black gun or that black gun and all the ridiculous rails, lights, lasers, butt wipers, can openers etc. that are sold as accessories for them.
Just a theory. YMMV
*I built it and the company that made my lower is already out of business. (Kaiser Defense.)
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Palmetto-Pride
New member
My .02 on Colt. I think Colt really dropped the ball on cashing in on there share of the civilian AR craze of the last few years. When I first got into ARs and asked around on getting a good AR this was the typical response....... "Colt is the standard by which all others are measured if you can afford it, but brand X, Y, & Z they are just as good at 1/2 the cost so unless you want to pay double for the cute little Pony roll mark get brand X, Y, or Z. My point is if Colt had dropped there prices and really marketed there ARs toward civilians ten years ago I predict 1/2 the AR15 start up company's wouldn't be around today and Colt would be enjoying a lot more of the market share than they do today.
Colt shot themselves in the foot repeatedly... starting way back when they installed a blind pin in their receivers to prevent their (legal) conversion to full auto, then the non-standard pin sizes for trigger/hammer so you couldn't install other mil-spec parts... then dropping civilian sales altogether, then....
Yet they are still here and doing well..... Colt I would say never needed to lower their AR prices, people spend almost the same amounts on crappy
Bushmasters off the shelf. The real issue is people don't know how to shop around and are impulsive. Colt's are affordable, and are far from the expensive end of the AR market.
Bushmasters off the shelf. The real issue is people don't know how to shop around and are impulsive. Colt's are affordable, and are far from the expensive end of the AR market.
AR manufacturers, or AR assemblers? There are not as many AR manufacturing machine shops out there as one would think. I worked in a place that made AR15 pattern rifles (every thing but the barrels and stocks) and saw no less then 5 different names stamped on the sides of the very same batch of parts. Some left the place generic (no names) and got stamped by the assembler. They could make a run of 1000 lowers, and stamp 5 different names on groups from the very same stock box.
Many AR assemblers may disappear, but most of the AR manufacturers will still be around.
Many AR assemblers may disappear, but most of the AR manufacturers will still be around.
Brotherbadger
New member
This is a great point. There really are only a handful of actual manufacturers out there. Heck, 4 companies(LMT, MMS, LAR, CMT) make the vast majority of all the lower receivers in the market. Those guys aren't going out of business any time soon. The guys they sell to, that's a different story.