Am I the only one who is not enamored but the new PCC rage?

[TBM900]

I’m also really pretty good with a handgun (i compete a lot) so i don’t see a lot of accuracy gains from PCCs.

I would bet that >99.9% of shooters will see a vast improvement in hits and speed while using a PCC versus a handgun
In fact, the less experience a shooter has, the better they do using a PCC versus a handgun
As I've said here before, I specifically recommend PCC's to new shooters, and try to dissuade them from a handgun

One of the biggest shining points of a PCC is how you can take a novice, and with very little practice...
You can have them making better and faster hits than an experienced pistol shooter
I've seen many an ego crushed by novice shooters using a PCC

I too have shot competitively for decades, local/state/national, including Master and High Master at NPSC for a number of years
And guess what... I will beat myself if I run a PCC through similar scenarios
Shoulder fired, low recoil weapons will do that

 

[TBM900]

My PCC was made in 1943. It has a 15 round detachable magazine, operates super reliably and is as much reviled for being underpowered as it is loved for being easy to shoot. M1Carbine baby.

The 30 Carbine isn't a pistol caliber
It was designed as and has always been a rifle cartridge

But yes the Carbine does in fact shoot similar to a PCC
Light, fast, low recoil, and relatively little blast compared to other service rifle cartridges

If one goes back and does some reading on the Light Rifle Program...
You'll find that is exactly what they were after and they succeeded

 

[TBM900]

Anyone have suggestions/recommendations for a PCC chambered in .40 S&W?

If I was limited to 40 S&W I would look for a CX4 Storm
One of the best PCC's ever made

Yes they are a bit goofy looking
But they are rock solid, ultra reliable, and shoot wonderfully
Far better than PCC's that are more rifle orientated like the Ruger PC carbine

 

[Forte S+W]

The only Pistol Caliber Carbines that I have any interest in are Lever Action Rifles chambered in big bore revolver cartridges. I'm not a fan of AR Pistols nor PDWs chambered in semiautomatic pistol cartridges, simply because I personally cannot find a practical use for one. For Home Defense I would rather have something more powerful and for everyday carry I would rather have a pistol. I know that some folks like to keep them in their vehicles, but I wouldn't be comfortable doing that, nor can I think of a realistic scenario in which I would be able to deploy it as quickly or easily as a pistol if the need should arise.

However, self-defense is a personal choice, and I do not subscribe to lofty ideals such as the existence of a perfect, one-size-fits-all platform for self-defense, so what's right for me isn't right for everyone else or vice-versa, ergo I won't question the choices of others. If folks feel that a PCC/PDW is a good option for their personal protection, then they should get one, train with it, and use it well.

 

[Radny97]

PCC's are range extenders. They allow a 9mm to go 100 yards with more accuracy than as a pistol alone.
Cheaper to shoot than say 5.56.
Increases muzzle energy by 50% (9mm & 40).

For outdoor work, I'd prefer a rifle caliber. Also, if strictly needed as a range extender, I'd opt for a Micro Roni.

Good points


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[Radny97]

My PCC was made in 1943. It has a 15 round detachable magazine, operates super reliably and is as much reviled for being underpowered as it is loved for being easy to shoot. M1Carbine baby. As far as I can tell, the PCC concept has been around for precisely as long as the self contained metallic cartridge. As soon as there was one, there was the other. Hell the original levergun, the Volcanic, used what was basically a pistol round. It was underpowered as all hell and terrified those it was pointed at. Is there a fad today? Yeah because people just awakened to the fact that PCC's have become so much more awesome than they once were. Doesn't make them illegitimate or unuseful.

Also good points


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[Nathan]

While I don’t own one yet. I think a PCC with a good sling and magazine would be ideal for home defense.

AR in 300 BO would be ok, but blast would be a lot indoors.

I would love as high cap Mp5 type rifle in 45 auto!

 

[TunnelRat]

I would bet that >99.9% of shooters will see a vast improvement in hits and speed while using a PCC versus a handgun
In fact, the less experience a shooter has, the better they do using a PCC versus a handgun
As I've said here before, I specifically recommend PCC's to new shooters, and try to dissuade them from a handgun

One of the biggest shining points of a PCC is how you can take a novice, and with very little practice...
You can have them making better and faster hits than an experienced pistol shooter
I've seen many an ego crushed by novice shooters using a PCC

I too have shot competitively for decades, local/state/national, including Master and High Master at NPSC for a number of years
And guess what... I will beat myself if I run a PCC through similar scenarios
Shoulder fired, low recoil weapons will do that

I agree. My wife is a middling shot with a pistol due to her rather small hands making it difficult for her to use the grips of many pistols. She practically can’t miss with the Stribog I have.

As for myself, with the same Stribog I can sit on a bench and hit the 200 yd plates with ease. I frankly can’t do that nearly as well with a pistol. At more practical self defense ranges I still shoot much better with the Stribog than a conventional pistol. I have more points of contact with the firearm, the weight of the firearm relative to the cartridge reduces the recoil, I can have a light and red dot mounted in an easy to use manner,and I have larger capacity magazines by default. I can maintain the same groups with noticeably less effort.


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[Radny97]

The only Pistol Caliber Carbines that I have any interest in are Lever Action Rifles chambered in big bore revolver cartridges. I'm not a fan of AR Pistols nor PDWs chambered in semiautomatic pistol cartridges, simply because I personally cannot find a practical use for one. For Home Defense I would rather have something more powerful and for everyday carry I would rather have a pistol. I know that some folks like to keep them in their vehicles, but I wouldn't be comfortable doing that, nor can I think of a realistic scenario in which I would be able to deploy it as quickly or easily as a pistol if the need should arise.

However, self-defense is a personal choice, and I do not subscribe to lofty ideals such as the existence of a perfect, one-size-fits-all platform for self-defense, so what's right for me isn't right for everyone else or vice-versa, ergo I won't question the choices of others. If folks feel that a PCC/PDW is a good option for their personal protection, then they should get one, train with it, and use it well.

Yep


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[44 AMP]

A long time ago, folks who taught firearms figured out that most people can more easily use a rifle more accurately than a handgun, particularly people with little or no training. The rifle or carbine with its 3 points of contact (both hands and the torso) was simply easier to aim accurately.

somewhere ages ago I read someone stating that it takes 3 times the amount of training/practice to be as good with a handgun as you can be with a rifle (at the appropriate -pistol- ranges). Not sure about 3x but its very clear it takes more training for most people, and a carbine, with its stock is simply easier for people to get hits with than a handgun, until/unless they reach a high level of skill with the pistol.

I can understand excluding lever guns from the PCC discussion, because you wish to focus on semi autos, but one should not exclude them from the PCC category, as they are the original PCCs and their history is not something to ignore.

Lever guns in "pistol" calibers date almost from the first cartridge arms, and .32-20, .38-40, and .44-40 were popular and a mainstay in the latter decades of the 1800s. Interestingly, the .45 Colt was not put into lever guns in those days. Rifle makers of the era felt the small rim of the .45 Colt would not allow reliable operation. Modern .45 Colt brass has a slightly larger rim, and does work well enough in modern lever guns.

The M1 Carbine is a unique case, being designed from the start as a light rifle round, not a pistol round, and being a couple years ahead of the German 7.92x33 round wasn't at first considered an "intermediate" power round that became one of the defining elements of an "assault rifle" but was later included, as the definition of "intermediate" used was the WWII standard of rifle and pistol rounds, and the .30 carbine is less powerful than the standard infantry round of its era (.30-06) and more powerful than the standard pistol rounds (9mm & 45acp)

So, an M1 carbine doesn't properly fit into a "pistol caliber carbine" class.
because while there have been a few .30 Carbine pistols, its not a round considered a "pistol round".

 

[tallball]

I ran across a used Hi-Point 9mm carbine for $120-something and couldn't resist.

It's reliable, fun to shoot, and used to be cheap to shoot, too.

For HD I prefer handguns or shotguns, but if it had to be a carbine or rifle, I would prefer pistol caliber. I would be very worried about a high-power rifle round ending up inside a neighbor's house. A pistol caliber wouldn't worry me as much.

 

[Shadow9mm]

The way I think about pccs is a semi auto smg. They definitely don't replace a rifle, but having a medium range gun with mags that are interchange with your carry gun could be very beneficial. Plus a ton of fun at the range...

 

[rc]

A PCC is a very useful thing to have to extend the range of your primary weapon while still being compatible with 1 type of ammo. We don't always need a 5.56 or 308 for defense. No, a PCC is a perfect option to those calibers for home defense or rural ranch use. A PCC can put down a coyote like lightning inside 50 yards. Something a 22 magnum may not do.

The fact you can get a PCC in both semi auto or revolver calibers is a testament to their popularity. For someone looking for the minimum number of guns for self defense, a 9mm Glock, 9mm Ruger PC converted to Glock Mags and a 12 gauge Pump would be a very versatile HD battery. Add a 10/22 or 17hmr bolt gun for small game and a 22 conversion kit for handgun training and you really don't "need" any other guns except maybe for deer hunting.

Alternatively a 357 Revolver and Lever gun with a 12 Gauge in reserve can do even more with a marginal ability to serve as a deer gun out to 100 yards or so without dedicated centerfire big game rifle.

 

[MarkCO]

There are several PCCs that can deliver 150+ grain slugs at velocities near 2000 fps. That is not a slouch for Deer and Pigs. Pretty dang close to the energy levels of a 12g non-magnum slug as well.

 

[Pistoler0]

I bought a Hi Point Model 995 a while back. I just wanted something cheap and fun - and that would use the same ammo that I used in my pistols. Besides being cheap and fun, it was surprisingly accurate to about 75 yards.

I am with you on the Hi-Point. Who cares if they are ugly, let the gun snobs talk it down.

I got mine in .45 ACP and I've even shot 45 Super out of it. It is fun, reliable, accurate and cheap.

In my State of CO it cannot be used for hunting, so in that respect it is not very useful outside of plinking and zombie apocalypse scenarios.

Regarding the OP: I think that PCCs have their place when desiring to shoot out of a carbine/rifle platform for precision, but at a lower cost in $ and recoil than when using rifle ammo.

However nowadays even pistol ammo is becoming expensive to shoot, to be honest the only stuff I can afford to shoot is 7.62x39 Russian ammo.

 

[BourbonCowboy]

I am with you on the Hi-Point. Who cares if they are ugly, let the gun snobs talk it down.

When I first bought the gun, some of my gun snob friends laughed at it...and me. A few months later, I installed the Hi Tower stock on it. The HTA stock doesn't show any Hi Point markings. When I took it out to shoot with my friends, they were drooling over it. The accuracy was still there, so they were even more impressed. I didn't tell them who actually made the rifle.

At the end of the day, a couple of them were asking if I'd think about selling it. I said no, but I could tell them where it came from, if they'd like one. I wish I had a photo of their faces when I told them that it came from Hi Point.

 

[zeke]

Have a 9mm High point, and it is surprisingly accurate. Pain to strip down and clean though. A lot of fun, as is the folding keltec.

 

[Pistoler0]

Have a 9mm High point, and it is surprisingly accurate. Pain to strip down and clean though. A lot of fun, as is the folding keltec.

I am not planning on stripping down and cleaning mine until it literally jams, he he. I'm gonnu let her get duurty. I'll keep track of the round count.

The manual says to clean the barrel after every 300-400 rds, and to disassemble for cleaning after 1500 rds.

And the process doesn't seem to be so bad either, there are a few YouTube videos that are excellent tutorials.

 

[zeke]

I am not planning on stripping down and cleaning mine until it literally jams, he he. I'm gonnu let her get duurty. I'll keep track of the round count.

The manual says to clean the barrel after every 300-400 rds, and to disassemble for cleaning after 1500 rds.

And the process doesn't seem to be so bad either, there are a few YouTube videos that are excellent tutorials.

Am not cleaning mine till it needs it for function either, not after the first time

 

[SIGSHR]

The 22RF is the original handgun/long gun round.
Trying to fire a rifle round out of a handgun is the one I think makes no sense. Lower muzzle velocity, awkward handling. I have read that a shoulder stock on a handgun turns a good pistol into a bad carbine, IMHO a "pistol" derived from a rifle does the same thing going the other way.