Am I missing something on a Glock replacement trigger?

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warningshot

New member
I am not one for the Nanny-State

And I've been called names for shooting IPSC style shooting since the 1980s; holsters, fast draw, crasy kid, I've heard it all from the 'traditional' shooters of the time. But a 3 lbs. trigger on a pistol with no active safety?

Might that be a something ready to......
 
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Burner

Moderator
Might that be a something ready to......
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I can understand why it might make you feel uncomfortable, but I'm not sure it is rational. The weapon is holstered until it is about to be fired and finger is wrapped around the front side of the trigger guard until the post is on target. Something that would cause a negligent discharge like holstering with finger on the trigger or dropping the weapon and snatching it out of the air would cause one regardless of the trigger being 3 or 5lbs. In other words, if you're following the rules I don't think anymore danger is being injected into this equation.

Along these lines, when I carried a 1911 I had to rack the weapon with the safety off before putting the safety on which for a while didn't make me happy. Real or perceived danger is everywhere with firearms. Assuming the weapon is mechanically sound, your holster is secure and you respect the gun you are good to go.
 
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Nanuk

New member
Massad Ayoob makes a good case of supporting his claim that prosecutors will try to capitalize on things like lightened triggers.
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And that is the empire he created for himself. Mas is a great guy, I just think he is a little paranoid.

A good shoot is a good shoot, even if you used a Deathsweeper 2000 with a 1/2 lb trigger pull. It is the questionable shootings that get people in trouble. Engage your brain and keep your finger of the trigger until you are ready to shoot. It is a training issue.
 
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Burner

Moderator
Nanuk, read on, I agreed even though I admitted Massad Ayoob crafts a good case.

(the) prosecutor assigned to your case, he wants a win and he will go after you with anything real or imagined. Along these lines you better stop shooting IDPA or that will be seen as premeditation. I think as long as you make a righteous shoot you will be okay and the issue will never even come up in the first place. I say lighten your trigger all you want as long as you handle the weapon safely.
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RC20

New member
I don't think its glock bashing to question the trigger pull.

Its obviously a problem for many or there would not be a whole industry out there making it lighter.

For competitive shooting that may make sense (depends on the type of competition). But for normal day in day out carry?

Previously there were two standards.

1911 with a safety (no one suggest you carry that gun cocked and not locked and it is not designed to be safe with the hammer down as there are no interlocks).

The other was the DA pull from the PPK type that is 10 lbs (and they had a safety on those type of guns).

DA/SA evolved from that and revolvers, and that pull is 10-12 lbs (and no safety).

The purpose of a safety (or a safety feature) is to keep something bad from happening when things DO NOT GO RIGHT.

Space shuttles, Chernobyl, Thresher, Titanic, you name it, things went wrong and the they did not have robust enough layers of safety to stop.

I question that the glock or any striker trigger that has less than 10 lbs is safe (and none of those feature is really a safety as they do not stop the gun from firing, safer yes, safeties no.).

And then you hit the wall when they say its works better for consistent trigger control. That is not an argument it safe, its an argument that you can't train your personal to shoot (and valid but sad).

A heavy DA pull is not a safety, but it is a safer feature. It takes a lot more to push it over the edge (ergo the first shuttle if the O rings were good to zero woad never have happened). Not safe, but virtually zero chance of it letting go launching from Florida but maybe not Katziksstan.

Is a DA/SA fully safe? Can you exceed the limits, yes.

The glock was designed form combat, not LEO or personal use.
 
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Emuricah513

New member
I am not a fan of outfitting a carry weapon with a lighter trigger than is shipped with the gun. If you ever had to use it in self defense the prosecutor will have a field day with it.
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^ Couldn't agree more that's why I decided against carrying my Glock, or if I do I would put the factory trigger assembly back on it. The standard is 5 or 5½ lbs I can't remember exactly. I know a lot of folks who like a lighter trigger pull on their glock, I've seen as little as 2 lbs on a glock trigger and that's a little crazy in my opinion. If you sneezed with that thing in your hand it would probably go off. But to answer your question no its not uncommon. 4/5 people I work with have modified their trigger assembly with a lighter pull. Just keep that quote in mind up there if you plan to carry it. ^
 
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TunnelRat

New member
People can do what they want with their guns, I'm not the safety police.

My issue is this: what is wrong with a 5lb trigger? For a competition gun I can see the point of a very light trigger if we're talking shooting at distance. But at the ranges and adrenaline levels of the standard self defense situation, are you honestly telling me that 5 lbs is too heavy and won't allow you to effectively engage a target? Good lord how did police ever hit anything with DA revolvers. Go watch what Hickok45 can do with a stock Glock trigger.

I've owned two Glocks and I'm no expert marksman but I have no trouble drawing and shooting it accurately in a mock scenario. Can I hit a quarter with it at 50 yds? No, but it's a service pistol. That isn't it's original intent in the first place. Take that money you're going to spend on the trigger and buy some ammo and I think it will do more good. YMMV.
 
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iamdb

New member
why blame the shooter when you can blame the equipment ;) Internet forums place to much emphasis on triggers.

Internet Warrior Check List:
  1. Glock
  2. Attachable Tac-Light
  3. Laser
  4. Night Sights
  5. Drop in Trigger
  6. Metal Guide Rod
  7. Aftermarket Recoil Spring
  8. Avoidance of Actual Training
  9. Extensive Knowledge of Which Gun is "Better"
  10. Large Face Watch Inside of the Wrist
  11. Paracord Bracelet
  12. 5.11 Wardrobe
  13. Kahki or Black Colored Ball Cap
  14. Aggressive Attitude
  15. Spare Tacti-Cool Flashlight in Cargo Pocket
I'm sure I'm forgetting something. :D
Mall "Operators" please feel free to correct this list.
 
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Burner

Moderator
For a competition gun I can see the point of a very light trigger if we're talking shooting at distance
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For me personally, it is my competition gun, a Glock 34. Cadet pay isn't a financial disaster, but it is not enough to afford a pistol for every purpose or tacticool scenario with enough spare change to still have a high round count every month.

Since I got the trigger in February, I've probably fired 5,000 rounds of ammunition instead of the 5,000 + 500ish I could have gotten for the same money plus the trigger cost. And that's just in the last six months.

Unless I was going to find my inner Annie Oakley in those 500 rounds I could have shot and those foregone rounds only, I think the value of them over the entire life of the weapon is pretty low. If you're a shooter who may only be shooting 50 every month due to cost, you'd be better off with the ammunition. If you have any kind of normal round count, a few hundred rounds not shot isn't really any difference in level of practice.
 
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TunnelRat

New member
For me personally, it is my competition gun, a Glock 34. Cadet pay isn't a financial disaster, but it is not enough to afford a pistol for every purpose or tacticool scenario with enough spare change to still have a high round count every month.
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Yup, probably why I said I understood doing it for a competition gun.
 
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Burner

Moderator
TunnelRat,
Your post contained more which I felt like addressing and if you read more was the purpose of the post.

Take that money you're going to spend on the trigger and buy some ammo and I think it will do more good
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I feel pretty confused about how a meager few hundred rounds of practice is more valuable than a modification to the weapon's configuration that makes it permanently more user friendly and was wondering if you would elaborate - I don't think pistol trigger jobs are just for competition shooters and mall operators. Even rule crazy IDPA seems to acknowledge they are pretty standard on pistols.
 
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TunnelRat

New member
I feel pretty confused about how a meager few hundred rounds of practice is more valuable than a modification to the weapon's configuration that makes it permanently more user friendly and was wondering if you would elaborate - I don't think pistol trigger jobs are just for competition shooters and mall operators. Even rule crazy IDPA seems to acknowledge they are pretty standard on pistols.
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I don't need to elaborate, as I already posted my thoughts above. Going from a 5 lb to 3.5 lb trigger is, IMO, unnecessary for a service pistol. If you want it for competition okay then, but I don't think it's needed for duty or carry. If you disagree you're more than welcome to. The great thing about a forum is that we're all entitled to our own opinions. :D
 
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Burner

Moderator
Yes, we certainly are, and generally with handguns I find as long as people are using quality firearms and products they'll shoot best with what they like and feel comfortable with. What is better on a spread sheet or some checks and minuses weighed against each other is pretty much irrelevant in the final calculus.

That being said, I don't feel like you're addressing my question but I'll leave it where it lies.
 
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iamdb

New member
Reminds me of when they made shoes with pumps on them. People were swearing it made them a better basketball player. :D
 
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warningshot

New member
I ignore or trivialize Mas's work at my own peril. As he once said, and I do paraphrase, 'If I don't believe it than some member of the XYZ Gang will explain it to me in the shower room at Rikers Island'.
 
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rgrundy

New member
The way a Glock trigger works is that the bar needs to slide up an incline as it cocks the weapon. The lighter trigger pulls usually have a much longer length of pull because the connector has a longer less steep incline. A short trigger pull will have a heavier pull. To actually get combat reliability (hard enough hit on the primer) you can't lighten the striker spring much, all you can do is put a heavier trigger spring in and lengthen the incline to end up with a long lighter pull (2 pounds advertised = 3.5 to 4 pounds usually if you measure it to the center of the trigger where your finger will be not the end). They are safe to carry with a good stiff holster that covers the trigger. The long trigger pull means you have to sweep the trigger 1/4 inch to get it to go bang. Besides if things are bad enough to warrant drawing the pistol you should probably be using it.
 
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Burner

Moderator
Reminds me of when they made shoes with pumps on them. People were swearing it made them a better basketball player.
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Considering the attention paid to optimizing trigger pull by manufacturers of 1911s and the fact that practically nobody runs a fully stock Glock or M&P trigger in competition, it is probably not trivial.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=151328

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?p=2405972

Hardly scientific, but it appears the consensus is that trigger jobs will help you shoot better if you've got the skills to take advantage of it.

On the other hand if what you're saying is that if I handed someone who isn't much of a handgunner a weapon with a smooth, short and crisp 3-4lb pull and then we compared his shooting when he used a weapon with a stacky/gritty/slacky/mushy/spongy/etc 5lb pull based on criteria of speed and precision, I agree the difference would be null.
 
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