All outta Bullseye. Not getting any more.

[briandg]

dumping bulseye or any other traditional powder for another more modern one or even with another brand is no big deal anymore. there may be a half dozen powders that can perform the very same function, just as well or even better, and unless there is some absolute need to stay with that same powder, why not set aside 2400 for 110, unique for some ball powder of equivalent, or bullseye for 231?

Are you someone who has used pennzoil all of your life, and wouldn't use quaker state unless you were beaten? prestone or die? nothing but goodyear?

Nothing wrong with using what your father used all of his life and passed on to you, but why not switch to something that sounds better?

I don't use his powders, his spark plugs or even drink his beer. I felt that it was a matter of growing up and allowing myself to overcome both his, and my own, dogged persistence on living in the past.

 

[Jeffm004]

You clearly do not know your motor oil.

 

[Slamfire]

You have not found a niche for Unique? That powder is the best I have used in 45 LC and 44 Special. It is very versatile.

I shot up kegs of W231 in the 45 ACP and it is an excellent powder. However I decided to use up all my W231 and use Bullseye in those applications.

 

[briandg]

you clearly do not know your motor oil

When and where did I say what I use,or what I think about motor oil?

I didn't name anything at all in that post. Nothing. But you assumed that I don't know anything about these products just because I used the name. Why?

 

[rclark]

I too have done a lot of testing with different powders over the years. Found a lot of good chronographed loads. Good backup data when favorites no longer available. But I have 'consolidated' to just a few powders as well. 2400 for any hot stuff (rare that I load it), Unique for my .44s (Mag and Spec). Green Dot for .357 and .45 Colt. AA#5 for my .32 H&R Mag. Really like True Blue too, so keep that around. Now this doesn't stop me from buying a new powder to test. For example, I am currently testing BE-86 in all the cartridges I shoot. But when it's gone, that's it! Well, unless it proves to be the 'ultimate' powder which I haven't ran into yet!

Oh, one other powder I keep handy is Triple Seven for my BP revolvers.

 

[Mike Irwin]

The one handgun powder that I will NEVER drop is WW 231.

I've been reloading with it since the early 1980s.

Another powder that I would throw down and fight to keep is Trail Boss.

 

[briandg]

I spent weeks agonizing on a powder to use for .38 and 9 mm maybe twenty or thirty years ago.

Now get this. The three candidates were 231, bullseye, and HP 38.

231 and hp 38 are identical, right? Back then, they were listed in two different data charts, hodgdon and winchester,. This was my first run at reloading pistols. I finally decided against flake bullseye, and spent another week hemming and hawing, then flipped a coin, and as soon as I sent that order, I started having second thoughts to the point that I eventually gave away the 231 and bought the hp 38. it seemed funny that they were so similar.

 

[Mike Irwin]

They are identical now, yes.

It was always the subject of much debate if they have always been identical, though.

 

[briandg]

This same tendency makes buying a six pack of beer difficult. I generally just eliminate anything over $8 and then spend ten minutes deciding what sounds best out of the remaining stock.

Doesn't work for powder.

 

[Slamfire]

They are identical now, yes.

It was always the subject of much debate if they have always been identical, though.

Without pressure gauges and chronographs, how would we know the difference? Before this became common knowledge, I tested W296 and H110 in the 44 Magnum and came to the conclusion that they were the same powder, the only differences were due to lot differences.

It just shows the knowledge asymmetry the Industry has over shooters. I am currently reading about Agnotology : the study of culturally induced ignorance or doubt (sic) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnotology It is in no one's benefit to educate the shooting community, and HP-38/W231; H110/W296 are excellent examples of how manufacturer's are able to maximize profit by with holding information from the shooting community. I have a Handloader magazine article by Ken Warner. In testing the 45 ACP he praised to high heaven HP-38 but in the article, says he had "given up" on W231. Now we know these are the same powders, so it calls into question whether Ken knew this, and therefore was shilling for Hodgdon, or whether Ken was able to shoot straight enough not to see a difference. Regardless of who wrote what article, I am certain the gun literature of the past 50 years is loaded with comparisons of these powders, one article Hodgdon beating the same powder in a Winchester can, and another article, the Winchester beating the same powder in a Hodgdon can.

 

[briandg]

Agnotology : the study of culturally induced ignorance or doubt

A very complicated way to say "letting the people make informed decisions is a stupid idea."

I'm nearing sixty, and I honestly can't remember when I first realized that this was an enormous, nation wide, earth shaking problem

One that really sticks out was when I asked how big the large pizza was and was told "8 slices." That's how they measured them. 8, 6, small.

 

[briandg]

Ken warner didnt have any credibility with me. He wasn't really an expert at anything, he was just an editor. He suggested that people could shoot 180 grain lead bullets at high power loads with 4831. "shoot cast bullets hot!"
John amber was the editor of the book, and seriously, he put a warning over the title. something like "None of the data or information included in this story are confirmed and readers are cautioned to experiment with this information at their own risk"

Never saw that on any other articles.

Going over his work day after day as a younger guy i noticed a lot of that same stuff. all he was was a writer.

 

[Metal god]

Agnotology : the study of culturally induced ignorance or doubt

Politicians do this for a living . I'll refrain from saying which major party I feel does it more and better then any in history

One that really sticks out was when I asked how big the large pizza was and was told "8 slices." That's how they measured them. 8, 6, small.

That reminds me of the old joke

Guy orders large pizza ,

Pizza maker ask would you like that cut in 6 or 8 slices

Guy says 6 slices please , I don't think I can eat 8

 

[TfflHndn]

I guess I'm the one swimming against the flow. I haven't found any HP-38 loads that I like better than other powders I use. So it doesn't come off the shelf much. OTOH, I love Longshot for .45 auto jacketed loads and WSF for high-pressure loads (.327 mag, .40 s&w). I'd trade HP-38 or Unique away for any of a dozen other powders. In fact, I've been loading Unique in 12 ga. shells lately just to use it up. I'm unlikely to buy it again. Powders I would not be happy to run out of include WST, Red Dot, AA#5 and HS-6.

 

[briandg]

With literally hundreds available it's not surprising that you can find superior results from one product than another equally reliable product. If I could find a ball powder that functioned as well as 4350 in my .243 I'd change, and tell the world about it. I could never afford to go through them pound by pound until I found it.

 

[Rifletom]

Hmm. We've all gone thru the powder trials. It seems we keep going back to what worked in the first place! With all these new powders out there, I keep going back to and using in my two pistols: .38spl Unique or "Clays". .45acp, again, Unique or "Clays". Glad I have a 4 lb'er of Clays! Rifle's: H4350, H4831sc, and 748. Simply things that worked before and all is good.

 

[hapaxl]

The nice thing about Unique for 9mm is there is absolutely no danger of a double charge -- I can barely get a single 5 gr. charge in the case

 

[A pause for the COZ]

Bullseye is my favorite pistol powder. I use it in 45acp, .380 and 32L.

I think I am down to my last 1/2 pound. Most loads I have been able to substitute Reddot or Promo. I think I have 20 pounds of that combo so should be ok for a while.
But I will buy some Bullseye if ever I see it again. Been three years now so not holding my breath.

 

[TfflHndn]

Recob's has Bullseye in 1 or 8 pound kegs in stock.

 

[sawdustdad]

Nick_C_S and I have followed similar paths--as we've noted before--shooting and reloading a lot back in the 80s, then had life's other adventures take a front seat for 25 years or so.

I got back into shooting and reloading in late 2013--really at the height of the shortages. I had no clue. I called my older brother (much more experienced and knowledgeable than I) and asked him "what's up with no powder on the shelves at Greentop? (large LGS). I think I was actually looking for .22LR ammo and that was nowhere to be found. He schooled me on the situation.

I bought a lot of different powders over the ensuing year, scouring Gunbot for opportunities, and buying anything that would work for my needs. Some were bad decisions. 800x, for example. Some were great discoveries, 700x is one. I bought a LOT of powder(s).

But Nick_C_S and I are in different places now. While simplification is a good idea, I like variety. I'm a tinkerer. I like having 20 different powders on hand to play with. I feel like a kid in a candy shop. I get an idea, do some research, and then go to the powder locker and rummage around for that unopened bottle of HS6, or AA7, or whatever.

Every day I'm tempted to buy another powder, just to play with. I can't imagine just having a just a few powders on the shelf.