9mm HD: 124 gr + p vs. 147 gr

[40caljustice]

No. You didn't say anything that ridiculous. I did.

And if you didn't say something so ridiculous then ignore it. I thought you were ignoring the rest of the thread anyway. I was simply exaggerating the way some folks sound when speaking about different topics. Its all in interpretation. If you thought I was speaking on your comments then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[mavracer]

if he read all the info, he did indeed come to the wrong conclusions. i call it like i see it.

OK I tried to stay out of it.
Don Glock please please tell me exacticly what's wrong about my conclusions.

 

[ice monkey]

As a satiation I would suggest that pouring over numbers is a BAD thing to do with regard to bullet performance lol . For more than just the reasons you mentioned. Hence, I am going to recommend youtube. Type in 9mm ballistics review. Tons oh helpful stuff!

I am a big fan of this guy - tnoutdoors9 – I think he’s reviewed every 9mm out there lol! But like I said - tons oh stuff out there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZMgyqWgW7M

If it makes any difference I load 147 in my baby Glock.

By the way, and for what it's worth,

“i've yet to see a documented case of someone going to prison because of their choice in ammo selection.”

Ok that might be bad advice. A good lawyer who knows a little about handguns and ballistics can make a good argument against a guy who hand-loads, mixes ammo or uses exotic ammo … but then I only play a lawyer on t.v. … but be careful.

 

[Don Glock]

I don't remember making any comments at all about applying statistics to one shot stopping anything. I do remember saying that statistics has taught me to be leery of any study. I think you need to read my comments more carefully and not put words in my mouth.

then why did you even mention the fact that you're a statistician?

Don Glock please please tell me exacticly what's wrong about my conclusions.

i've already done that in my numerous posts.

 

[Don Glock]

People react badly when their heart stops working, very quickly. So yes a heart shot might not immediately incapacitate, but obliteration? I think that would have dramatic effects.....

it's not always instant though. many folks refer to things that take a few seconds to have an effect as "instant".

plus, a shot that either obliterates the heart completely or cuts off the heart from the rest of the body while letting it remain largely in tact have the same affect. i quoted dr. fackler and used the term "obliterated" to stress my point as he did lol

however, it is rare, and worst case scenario, but it does happen.


it's something that dr. fackler has seen, and noted in his autopsy reports.

 

[TunnelRat]

@ Don Glock
Again, reading is your friend.

"I do remember saying that statistics has taught me to be leery of any study"

I mentioned I am a statistician because being one has taught me that many of the studies you read, even if performed by good doctors, can be performed poorly. This can make those results, though good intentioned, inaccurate. I know many people who take studies at their words, maybe not you, but there are those who do. My point is that everything should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[ice monkey]

everything should be taken with a grain of salt

LOL

A very LARGE grain oh salt!

 

[mavracer]

you've done all the reading, but come to the incorrect conclusion

My suggestion is still.
find a reputable load that functions 100% and hits POA.

Let me get this straight in your infinate wisdom. we should pick ammo that has a bad reputation,that jams and is wildly inaccurate.

i just try to help out folks to make an informed decision, however you can lead a horse to water.

With that kind of help. Do me a favor if you ever see me being attacked by a bear you help the bear

 

[Don Glock]

 

[MikeNice81]

All of this arguing over statistics is kind of pointless. Actually most of this arguing is pointless.

The 124gr+p HST is every bit as effective as a .40S&W 180gr Federal HST in the OIS reports I have read. Once you get in to the realm of 124gr, 124gr+p, 147gr, or 147gr+p 9mm the answer is simple. They will all work if you are using a modern design hollow point and know what you are doing.

The bigger question is, does it feed in your gun. The second biggest question is can you shoot the round well. Then you should think about weight and the purpose of the gun. For home defense I would definitely want a 147gr bullet. There is a better chance I might have to shoot through a barrier such as a couch or my bed room door. That is where the 147gr has an advantage.

If it is my EDC gun, I would use anything from 124gr to 147gr+p. With modern designs both weights should be equally effective when smacking skin and muscle.

My order of importance:
Is the gun reliable
Does the ammo feed
Can I shoot the combination well (control)
Bullet weight

Weight is at the bottom of my list.

 

[TunnelRat]

@ Mike
I agree with what you're saying. I am on the hunt for a box of 147 gr 9mm so I can practice with them, but it's proving a pain in the ass to find in a local shop or even Walmart. I try to avoid ordering online unless I am going to order a larger quantity so that the shipping cost gets spread out.

As for the arguing, not really my choice or desire. Sadly it happened. However, I don't think this thread was pointless if it at least gave some people ideas as to good ammo choices. If it helped convince people that weight isn't the end and be all, even though that wasn't my original goal, well that's good too.

 

[MikeNice81]

Any thread that teaches isn't a waste or pointless. That was the wrong choice of wording. After pulling the over night I was too tired to attempt to phrase it better.

 

[Marquezj16]

My order of importance:
Does the ammo feed
Can I shoot the combination well (control)

I have three 9mm in the house. I bought different weight fo SD ammo, 115, 124, and 147 from same manufacturer (Hornady) and three different types (Custom JHP, Critical Defense and TAP). I fired all them in each gun, taking pictures and sorting out which has the best groups for each. All of them functioned flawless. When I was done, the XDm 3.8 Compact likes the 115 gr Critical Defense, the 92 FS Compact likes the 124 gr TAP and Custom and the SP2022 likes the 147 gr Custom. So when my wife carries her XDm, she uses the ammo that it likes and when I carry my 92FS, I use the ammo it likes and the SP2022 stays home as my nightstand pistol with the ammo it likes. So using the above criteria, yes the ammo feeds well and yes we shoot it well.

Shot placement is very important in self defense and you have to be accurate or no matter what bullet weight you have if you don't hit the target, then what good is your SD ammo?

 

[ice monkey]

Ok well, back to business here. Check this out!

http://www.gunblast.com/ExtremeShock.htm

And I always thought this ammo was an overpriced gimmick! And if I read it right … this ammo is 115gn!!!

As for the original posters concern of a balanced bullet that has both stopping power and will not over penetrate, go to the manufacturer’s web-site at the end of the story, they have all kinds of exotic ammo.

Here's boxo'truth review http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot23.htm

 

[MikeNice81]

@Tunnel Rat
Try SG Ammo. They have a really good price on their 147gr Ranger FMJ and 147gr Super X FMJ.

I just ordered

3x 147gr Winchester Ranger 147gr FMJ
1x 147gr Winchester Ranger 147gr Bonded JHP
1x 147gr Federal Hi-Shok 147gr JHP
Total w/shipping $95.75

The three boxes of Ranger 147gr FMJ will only run $50.85 shipped. That is only $5 more than three boxes of cheap Remmington or Federal at my local Wal Mart.

@Marquez

Accuracy is what I meant by control. Can I control the combination well enough to stay "combat" accurate. To me that means putting four shots in a space the size of my hand in less than 4.5 seconds, from a draw.

A gun loaded with +p+ isn't doing a guy any good if he can not shoot accurately. It is better for a person to shoot a 124gr bullet they can handle than a 115gr+P+ or 147gr+P that gets away from them.

I admire the lengths you went to in finding the right bullet. I must admit I haven't went that far. Now I feel like I need to order up some more ammo to be sure I have the right stuff. Well, looks like I need to pencil in some more range time. Thanks a lot for making me have to put in so much extra "work."

 

[Marquezj16]

@MikeNice81 - I used the same principle for my rifles and it only makes sense to find the ammo it shoots best. Plus going to the range is so much fun and after finding the right combo it just feels so rewarding. So buy up more ammo, and safe shooting.

 

[mavracer]

it only makes sense to find the ammo it shoots best. Plus going to the range is so much fun and after finding the right combo it just feels so rewarding. So buy up more ammo, and safe shooting.

Of course all that practice leads to better hits and makes what bullet you use lesss important. LOL