stagpanther
New member
The ARC is a very good cartridge--but it's no 6mm PPC or BR IMO. Still, it's "well-behaved" in an AR and I think it excels in that role.
6mm arc?
- Thread starter Shadow9mm
- Start date
You've certainly shown that I need to be more grateful for my judicious purchases. I'm currently loading with Nosler 105gr RDFs, Barnes 105gr MatchBurners, and Hornady 87gr V-Max. My 2 boxes of Hornady Black cost me $63.82...about what I paid for my first 2 boxes.
I'm loading the Hornady V-Max for $1.45 with amortized Hornady brass. The TAC powder is currently my costliest powder.
The Barnes MatchBurner loads run me $0.79 using converted Nosler 6.5 Grendel brass.
Finally, the Nosler RDF loads are $1.10, again with the Nosler brass.
So using Hornady components currently costs me the most, primarily as I haven't found a way to buy bulk Hornady bullets. Boxes of 50 or 100 definitely hurts. I picked up 500 of the Nosler and Barnes bullets. But the Hornady V-Max are sure prettier.
I'm just shooting pukas in paper at short range, so I don't want to price myself out of enjoying the fun.
Quick update and thanks for the help, I have a barrel, BCG, and gas block on the way.
barrel 20in ballistic advantave
Aero 6.5 grendel BCG
aero adjustable gas block
Will be ordering the upper, gas tube, hand guard, headspace gauges, and some factory ammo to get things started next payday.
Getting an aero standard upper in black
aero gas tube
Aero Atlas R-1 in od green cerakote
pacific headspace guages
100rnds of hornady black to shoot and turn into brass
Doing some research on bullet options. This will be mostly a paper puncher for me, but I do want a load that would be adequate for deer or defensive use if needed.
barrel 20in ballistic advantave
Aero 6.5 grendel BCG
aero adjustable gas block
Will be ordering the upper, gas tube, hand guard, headspace gauges, and some factory ammo to get things started next payday.
Getting an aero standard upper in black
aero gas tube
Aero Atlas R-1 in od green cerakote
pacific headspace guages
100rnds of hornady black to shoot and turn into brass
Doing some research on bullet options. This will be mostly a paper puncher for me, but I do want a load that would be adequate for deer or defensive use if needed.
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Couple reasons i decided on 20in
The cartridge was designed around an 18in barrel according to hornady. Their gas gun data also lists an 18in barrel for testing. So using their gas gun data i should meet or exceed published velocities for hand loads and or factory ammo.
Also, I was concerned with gas and dwell time. I wanted a rifle length gas system. 18in was too short and 22+ was too long as i did not want to mess with a proprietary gas system length.
Lastly i was concerned with weight and balance. I am shooting more for dmr/spr rather than target or varmint. With a muzzle device i will probably be in the 22 on range anyway. I am also not a fan of lugging heavy guns around, even if it is at the range.
Based on the number i have crunching. Using data from an 18in barrel, it should be supersonic out to 1200yds. More than adequate for my needs.
jetinteriorguy
New member
The Brass Goat is great, best brass catcher ever for AR’s. I wish they made one for a Mini14.
so, quick update. I now have a 6mm arc build completed on a 20in ballistic advantage barrel.
Brass is an issue as expected. I bought 100rnds of Hornady factory ammo to get me started. Supposedly Peterson was supposed to start making it early this year, but so far it does no appear on their website. I will probably wind up putting some starline 6.5 grendel brass on backorder and forming my own. 100pcs is not enough for what I want to do with it. and I am not going to keep paying for factory ammo to get the brass.
Shot 90 of that yesterday. Had some accuracy issues that I am chalking up to my muzzle device coming loose.
But I did get some rounds over the chrono. the Hornady match box stated they used a 24in barrel. The black did not list a barrel length, however it was only 3g difference in bullet weight and the listed velocity was identical, Id say its probably the same length.
Hornady Match 108g eldm listed 2750fps
Chrono at 15ft
81F
18 rounds recorded
Avg 2570 fps
ES 83
SD22
Hornady Black 105g OTM listed 2750fps
Chrono at 15ft
81F
20 rounds recorded
Avg 2613 fps
ES 39
SD12
Jetinteriorguy
May be having some issues with the brass goat. not 100% sure yet. I noticed after firing the case mouths appeared to be slightly smashed or flattened on one side. nothing crazy but noticible. I took the brass goat off and chased a few down and they looked normal. Also ejection was right at 3:30 with the brass goat off. However i had a fair bit of brass on the shell deflector, making me think the brass goat was causing the casings to bang against it while being ejected. still need to test that theory a bit more.
Brass is an issue as expected. I bought 100rnds of Hornady factory ammo to get me started. Supposedly Peterson was supposed to start making it early this year, but so far it does no appear on their website. I will probably wind up putting some starline 6.5 grendel brass on backorder and forming my own. 100pcs is not enough for what I want to do with it. and I am not going to keep paying for factory ammo to get the brass.
Shot 90 of that yesterday. Had some accuracy issues that I am chalking up to my muzzle device coming loose.
But I did get some rounds over the chrono. the Hornady match box stated they used a 24in barrel. The black did not list a barrel length, however it was only 3g difference in bullet weight and the listed velocity was identical, Id say its probably the same length.
Hornady Match 108g eldm listed 2750fps
Chrono at 15ft
81F
18 rounds recorded
Avg 2570 fps
ES 83
SD22
Hornady Black 105g OTM listed 2750fps
Chrono at 15ft
81F
20 rounds recorded
Avg 2613 fps
ES 39
SD12
Jetinteriorguy
May be having some issues with the brass goat. not 100% sure yet. I noticed after firing the case mouths appeared to be slightly smashed or flattened on one side. nothing crazy but noticible. I took the brass goat off and chased a few down and they looked normal. Also ejection was right at 3:30 with the brass goat off. However i had a fair bit of brass on the shell deflector, making me think the brass goat was causing the casings to bang against it while being ejected. still need to test that theory a bit more.
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shadow...just a thought here for you to check out on your extraction
take a hard look at you extractor...it could need defanging...look at the rim on the ejected brass to see if it has claw marks
also take the bolt out of the rifle and put a case under the extractor..push it over and set it on the bolt face and see if it comes off clean....slowly let the ejector push the brass off the bolt....if it even acts like it wants to hange on the extractor you will need to polish the points on the extractor so it lets go of the case a little sooner, so it clears the deflector..dont be skeerd of really rounding them points...and the edge where the rim sits...looking to change the timing a little ...kinda similar to tuning a 1911 extractor go slow and see what happens...i worked mine over about 4 maybe 5 times...in the rifle shoot a few and back out ,polish and test again...lol...slow is your friend
i had the same issue with my grendel....cases were flipping around and smaking the case deflector causing a flat spot on the case mouth..some of the lighter bullets were giving me some ejection issues...would work ok in warmer temps and in colder temps it would choke..not everytime but it would do it and i wanted it to run all the time...i tried everything and finaly with some input from the guys on the grendel forum we figured out what was really happening and it is running like a sewing machine now with all the loads i have run through it....after i got the ejector working right i went from a 2.9oz buffer to a h2....yeah it changed that much...just because the extractor was hanging on to long.....changed to whole timing of the rifle
the bolt face is the same for arc and grendel so im guessing the case heads are similar or the same...problem doesnt happen with 556-223 because case rim is smaller
may not be your problem but it sure sounds familiar......that case has to come off the bolt face slick as greased snot.....look at the rims on the cases first...they will tell you if the points are sharp and digging into the rim...be 2 scratch lines where it came off the extractor
just some thoughts
ocharry
take a hard look at you extractor...it could need defanging...look at the rim on the ejected brass to see if it has claw marks
also take the bolt out of the rifle and put a case under the extractor..push it over and set it on the bolt face and see if it comes off clean....slowly let the ejector push the brass off the bolt....if it even acts like it wants to hange on the extractor you will need to polish the points on the extractor so it lets go of the case a little sooner, so it clears the deflector..dont be skeerd of really rounding them points...and the edge where the rim sits...looking to change the timing a little ...kinda similar to tuning a 1911 extractor go slow and see what happens...i worked mine over about 4 maybe 5 times...in the rifle shoot a few and back out ,polish and test again...lol...slow is your friend
i had the same issue with my grendel....cases were flipping around and smaking the case deflector causing a flat spot on the case mouth..some of the lighter bullets were giving me some ejection issues...would work ok in warmer temps and in colder temps it would choke..not everytime but it would do it and i wanted it to run all the time...i tried everything and finaly with some input from the guys on the grendel forum we figured out what was really happening and it is running like a sewing machine now with all the loads i have run through it....after i got the ejector working right i went from a 2.9oz buffer to a h2....yeah it changed that much...just because the extractor was hanging on to long.....changed to whole timing of the rifle
the bolt face is the same for arc and grendel so im guessing the case heads are similar or the same...problem doesnt happen with 556-223 because case rim is smaller
may not be your problem but it sure sounds familiar......that case has to come off the bolt face slick as greased snot.....look at the rims on the cases first...they will tell you if the points are sharp and digging into the rim...be 2 scratch lines where it came off the extractor
just some thoughts
ocharry
I went back and got to thinking about this, though you might disagree with my answers...
Is it a good cartridge?
Possibly, if you are limited to AR-15 rifles.
Is it on its way out?
It has been created, some people are interested in it, and brass can be formed from other more widely available rounds, so, even if the ammo makers drop it, it will still be around as a handloading proposition for as long as those interested in it want it to.
Is it easy to load for as a cartridge?
I don't load for that one, but I can't see where it would be any different from any other metallic cartridge of the same general size and shape.
sensitive to bulet weght/length and powder charges?
show me something that isn't. To some degree at least.
"sensitivity" means what, in this case? Only certain combinations being accurate?? Something else??
Do remember that a given load performing, or not performing to your satisfaction relies as much on the gun as the ammo, and the shooter does play a small role in that, as well.
Is it a good cartridge?
"Possibly, if you are limited to AR-15 rifles."
Why is that? Savage offers two different models of 110 plus the Axis chambered in it. Howa offer their Mini Action chambered in it. I personally know 4 people shooting 6ARC in bolt guns and I intent to rebarrel a 223 Savage Bolt rifle into a 1ARC
Reason being mostly that right now brass and tooling are much more available for it than say the 6BR, BRA or Dasher.
"Possibly, if you are limited to AR-15 rifles."
Why is that? Savage offers two different models of 110 plus the Axis chambered in it. Howa offer their Mini Action chambered in it. I personally know 4 people shooting 6ARC in bolt guns and I intent to rebarrel a 223 Savage Bolt rifle into a 1ARC
Reason being mostly that right now brass and tooling are much more available for it than say the 6BR, BRA or Dasher.
My point is that if you're running an AR-15 (because you choose to) that is a certain size "box" in terms of physical dimensions and performance envelope.
The 6mm ARC appears to be a good choice for maximum performance for something that fits inside that "box".
When you go to a bolt gun, you have a different size box. You aren't as restricted to case size, or barrel length or loads that function the action. You have many, many options and many of them provide increased performance over the 6mm Arc.
For his own reasons the OP wants to stay transonic to 1200m with a 6mm bullet. He has chosen to do this (or try) with an AR-15 and a 20" tube. That's his "box".
Did I want the same performance at that range using a 6mm slug, I would chose something else. A bolt gun with a longer barrel and a larger case, more common cartridge.
The OP fired factory ammo listed at 2750fps and from his gun got about 2600fps +/-.
A 22" .243 will push a 105gr into the 2900fps range, other cases will do even more. Barrels can be had specific for the long range bullet designs (optimal twist rate, etc.) and will work fine in a bolt gun, delivering more velocity than the 6mm arc, but those rounds won't fit in an AR-15 "box".
If the desired objective is maximum possible 6mm performance at a given range, there are better things than the 6mm ARC.
If the desired objective is maximum possible 6mm performance from an AR-15 then the 6mm ARC should be a good cartridge for that.
44 AMP
In my case i had a lower, and was wanting to do a portable precision build, kind of along the lines of DMR/SPR.
So i was looking at what cartridge would fit in that magazine. You can do an awful lot without size restrictions.
6mm arc looked great from a design and performance perspective, but its hard to tell real world performance from stats. It had rifles from several major manufacturers out. But hornady was the only one making ammo for it, and only 3 loadings, and brass seems unavailable. Basically a reliaders only game.
I got a good deal on a barrel and some parts and decided to take the plunge. Worst case i can swap back to a 223/5.56 barrel and all im out is a barrel.
In my case i had a lower, and was wanting to do a portable precision build, kind of along the lines of DMR/SPR.
So i was looking at what cartridge would fit in that magazine. You can do an awful lot without size restrictions.
6mm arc looked great from a design and performance perspective, but its hard to tell real world performance from stats. It had rifles from several major manufacturers out. But hornady was the only one making ammo for it, and only 3 loadings, and brass seems unavailable. Basically a reliaders only game.
I got a good deal on a barrel and some parts and decided to take the plunge. Worst case i can swap back to a 223/5.56 barrel and all im out is a barrel.
44AMP, I do not dispute there is difference between the Auto-loading platform and the Bolt platform. My response was to a more general over-all opinion of this cartridge. So then the same could be asked as to why the 6mm BR, BRA or Dasher hasn't been adopted to the AR platform, as everyone believes they are all superior, all fit the dimensional limitations.
From the data I've been following when all 4 of these 6mm rounds are loaded to the same levels, with the same components each is only marginally better than the one below it out to 500/600yds. Then one needs to move up to the 6mm GT, CM or 243 to see significant advantage over the short 6mm.
In a modified Bench Rest league I shoot in it has a firing range of 100/200/300yds. There is no one shooting an AR platform and out of 20 members 9 are shooting some form of short 6mm Bolt rifle. With the 6BR leading that group. 1 member is shooting a 6ARC and I hope to be #2.
From the data I've been following when all 4 of these 6mm rounds are loaded to the same levels, with the same components each is only marginally better than the one below it out to 500/600yds. Then one needs to move up to the 6mm GT, CM or 243 to see significant advantage over the short 6mm.
In a modified Bench Rest league I shoot in it has a firing range of 100/200/300yds. There is no one shooting an AR platform and out of 20 members 9 are shooting some form of short 6mm Bolt rifle. With the 6BR leading that group. 1 member is shooting a 6ARC and I hope to be #2.
Optic is borrowed from another gun. Primarily arms 4-14x44 ffp mil dot reticle. Will probably be getting the moa version fir this build eventually.
Total weight 10.02lb with no mag/ammo
Ill get a pic of the completed build up soon.
You do your thing, and enjoy! The whole point is doing something you enjoy, even if it doesn't appeal or make sense to others,,,
For me, I don't have a use for a 10 pound 6mm anything that isn't a dedicated varmint rifle with the longest barrel practical to get the highest velocities.
I have a .243 and a 6mm Remington. Wonderful little bolt gun carbines, that don't go much over 7lbs with glass. Great at what they were made to do.
Not at all what you're looking to do, but hey, I celebrate diversity in the pursuit of happiness.
Good luck with your project. Hope you get what you're looking for. Either way, you will get experience!
"You do your thing, and enjoy! The whole point is doing something you enjoy, even if it doesn't appeal or make sense to others,,," Completely agree!
I have been working PT for the past 3 years at a very large outdoor range and I get to see the full gamut of people and firearms. The one thing in common is that everyone seems to be enjoying themselves. I see many firearms that I would never own for myself but I can still enjoy watching others shoot them.
I have been working PT for the past 3 years at a very large outdoor range and I get to see the full gamut of people and firearms. The one thing in common is that everyone seems to be enjoying themselves. I see many firearms that I would never own for myself but I can still enjoy watching others shoot them.
Its been a very fun build and experience so far. I have only had it out once but i am really enjoying the 6mm arc as a cartridge.
While heavier for an ar15, its not maxed out. And comparing it to an ar10 it is light weight. Over all im ok with the weight. Easy enough to get to the range. And while battle rifle weight it can be carried around if i need to.
I have a funny feeling i will end up with a bolt gun chambered in 6mm arc in the not too distant future.
While heavier for an ar15, its not maxed out. And comparing it to an ar10 it is light weight. Over all im ok with the weight. Easy enough to get to the range. And while battle rifle weight it can be carried around if i need to.
I have a funny feeling i will end up with a bolt gun chambered in 6mm arc in the not too distant future.