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686 cylinder Locked Up
- Thread starter hatchet
- Start date
Jim Watson
New member
Being careful about which way it was pointed, I would:
Remove grips
Back out strain screw so as to not side load the action pins and studs
Take off sideplate
Start taking out internal parts until something went SPROING and it freed up.
Remove grips
Back out strain screw so as to not side load the action pins and studs
Take off sideplate
Start taking out internal parts until something went SPROING and it freed up.
If you decide to look inside the gun, don't make the rookie mistake of prying the sideplate off.
Having done many action jobs on these revolvers over the last 40+ years, it sounds to me like the cylinder stop is stuck in the up / locked position. This could be because the stop itself is broken or the trigger nose is broken or there's something stuck in there.
Mailing a loaded gun is a super-bad idea. Find a gunsmith who knows what he's doing and have him check it out.
Having done many action jobs on these revolvers over the last 40+ years, it sounds to me like the cylinder stop is stuck in the up / locked position. This could be because the stop itself is broken or the trigger nose is broken or there's something stuck in there.
Mailing a loaded gun is a super-bad idea. Find a gunsmith who knows what he's doing and have him check it out.
HighValleyRanch
New member
Here's my 2 cents for what it's worth!
The only three points engaging the cylinder are:
1. The cylinder stop
2. The cylinder pin on the ejector rod
3. the cylinder pawl to rotate as the hammer is pulled back
Since the cylinder latch moves back and forth, we might assume that the latch is pressing in on the cylinder pin to release it.
So the question for everyone to consider would be what else could cause the cylinder to not open?
The OP has already stated that there is a cylinder gap, so a squibb or bullet between the barrel and cylinder could not be the problem.
A high primer dragging on the rear?
Check with a flashlight to see that the pawl is not engaged, but since the hammer is down, I would assume that the pawl is not.
Someone suggested that the ejector rod might have unscrewed, but couldn't that be solved by looking into the barrel shroud to see if the rod is binding by being unscrewed?
So if there is no bullet in the gap, no pawl engaged, and the cylinder latch pushes in, why not use a rubber mallet to force the cylinder open?
That would be my line of thinking if it was my problem to deal with.
The only three points engaging the cylinder are:
1. The cylinder stop
2. The cylinder pin on the ejector rod
3. the cylinder pawl to rotate as the hammer is pulled back
Since the cylinder latch moves back and forth, we might assume that the latch is pressing in on the cylinder pin to release it.
So the question for everyone to consider would be what else could cause the cylinder to not open?
The OP has already stated that there is a cylinder gap, so a squibb or bullet between the barrel and cylinder could not be the problem.
A high primer dragging on the rear?
Check with a flashlight to see that the pawl is not engaged, but since the hammer is down, I would assume that the pawl is not.
Someone suggested that the ejector rod might have unscrewed, but couldn't that be solved by looking into the barrel shroud to see if the rod is binding by being unscrewed?
So if there is no bullet in the gap, no pawl engaged, and the cylinder latch pushes in, why not use a rubber mallet to force the cylinder open?
That would be my line of thinking if it was my problem to deal with.
Japle & HighValleyRanch,
Thank you both for chiming in with the suggestions. I think what you both have pointed out, sounds like the most probable at this point. I contacted a gunsmith yesterday and am going to take it to him tomorrow. I will run these thoughts by him that you have mentioned.
Unfortunately where I live in Montana, there is no authorized S&W repair options, and the nearest gunsmith is an hour away.
Thank you both for chiming in with the suggestions. I think what you both have pointed out, sounds like the most probable at this point. I contacted a gunsmith yesterday and am going to take it to him tomorrow. I will run these thoughts by him that you have mentioned.
Unfortunately where I live in Montana, there is no authorized S&W repair options, and the nearest gunsmith is an hour away.
Been thinking about this.
When you pull the trigger, either SA or DA, the first thing that happens is the nose of the trigger cams the cylinder stop down. As you describe it, the cylinder won't rotate. Is the cylinder stop engaged? If so, something is blocking the stop and keeping it from rotating and releasing the cylinder. I can't imagine either the trigger nose or the cylinder stop being broken. Never seen that happen.
My guess - and it's just a guess - is there's something that's jammed the trigger or the stop.
I just did an action job on a 686+ and told the owner that it must have been the last gun that went through QC on a Friday just before a long weekend. Really rough with insane number of sharp edges and tool marks. The nose of the trigger that cams the cylinder stop was very sharp and it took over 5 lbs of pressure to release. Just ridiculous. There could be a piece of something left in your gun that's shifted and is gumming up the works.
Several years ago, I bought a 686SSR that had six chambers and seven cylinder flutes. That meant most of the chamber walls were far too thin for safety. I made a huge stink on the gun forums and now I have what's probably the only 686SSR with an unfluted cylinder. Needless to say, I'm not very impressed with S&W's QC.
Let us know what you find out.
When you pull the trigger, either SA or DA, the first thing that happens is the nose of the trigger cams the cylinder stop down. As you describe it, the cylinder won't rotate. Is the cylinder stop engaged? If so, something is blocking the stop and keeping it from rotating and releasing the cylinder. I can't imagine either the trigger nose or the cylinder stop being broken. Never seen that happen.
My guess - and it's just a guess - is there's something that's jammed the trigger or the stop.
I just did an action job on a 686+ and told the owner that it must have been the last gun that went through QC on a Friday just before a long weekend. Really rough with insane number of sharp edges and tool marks. The nose of the trigger that cams the cylinder stop was very sharp and it took over 5 lbs of pressure to release. Just ridiculous. There could be a piece of something left in your gun that's shifted and is gumming up the works.
Several years ago, I bought a 686SSR that had six chambers and seven cylinder flutes. That meant most of the chamber walls were far too thin for safety. I made a huge stink on the gun forums and now I have what's probably the only 686SSR with an unfluted cylinder. Needless to say, I'm not very impressed with S&W's QC.
Let us know what you find out.
Japle,
This is good information to know, and I will share it with the gunsmith tomorrow.
I have a 8 shot TRR8 that I bought 4-5 years ago. I have put probably 500 rounds through it with zero issues.
I also have a couple newer 629's and several older pre-lock 629's from the 80's and 90's, that have never had an issue.
Maybe this if more of an issue with the k frame and/or 686 in general.
Makes me want to go with the 7 shot GP 100 for a substitute for the 686.
This is good information to know, and I will share it with the gunsmith tomorrow.
I have a 8 shot TRR8 that I bought 4-5 years ago. I have put probably 500 rounds through it with zero issues.
I also have a couple newer 629's and several older pre-lock 629's from the 80's and 90's, that have never had an issue.
Maybe this if more of an issue with the k frame and/or 686 in general.
Makes me want to go with the 7 shot GP 100 for a substitute for the 686.
hatchet,
I have ten S&W revolvers right now and have owned and tuned dozens more. Most of them have been pretty good out of the box and excellent after the actions were slicked up.
I've also owned and tuned a bunch of Rugers, but I don't own any now. I could never get anywhere near as good a DA pull on a Ruger as on a Smith.
Most of my revolvers have never been fired SA, even when used in hunting. A M-29 I own has the trigger stop set so far back that it can't be cocked SA, something I didn't even realize until a friend tried cocking it. I shot some hogs with that gun, a couple of them running flat-out all DA.
A set of Bang, Inc springs, an extended firing pin (if your gun has the in-frame pin) and a professional action job makes all the difference in the world. Night and day. Fire and water.
I have ten S&W revolvers right now and have owned and tuned dozens more. Most of them have been pretty good out of the box and excellent after the actions were slicked up.
I've also owned and tuned a bunch of Rugers, but I don't own any now. I could never get anywhere near as good a DA pull on a Ruger as on a Smith.
Most of my revolvers have never been fired SA, even when used in hunting. A M-29 I own has the trigger stop set so far back that it can't be cocked SA, something I didn't even realize until a friend tried cocking it. I shot some hogs with that gun, a couple of them running flat-out all DA.
A set of Bang, Inc springs, an extended firing pin (if your gun has the in-frame pin) and a professional action job makes all the difference in the world. Night and day. Fire and water.
Jim Watson
New member
A M-29 I own has the trigger stop set so far back that it can't be cocked SA,
The guy that set up my M67 for IDPA SSR did that intentionally. He said that if I wanted to shoot SA, just file the stop until the hammer would sear up. Not the usual method of grinding off the full cock notch to make it permanently DAO.
I took it as the firing pin stopped short of hitting the primer.What does the term "half stroked" mean?
-TL
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
No it doesn't have a half cock notch, but you can still pull the hammer back 1/2 way which is what I took as it couldn't be fully cocked.686 doesn't have half cock notch.
-TL
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
So I took it to a gunsmith and dropped it off last Thursday and just picked it back up a couple days ago.
He said there was a particle internally binding the cylinder. Blamed it on a MIM part.
He polished everything, replaced a rebound spring and tweeked the action for a lighter trigger pull. Shoots awesome now.
I dropped off 3 629's with him to do the same action job.
He said there was a particle internally binding the cylinder. Blamed it on a MIM part.
He polished everything, replaced a rebound spring and tweeked the action for a lighter trigger pull. Shoots awesome now.
I dropped off 3 629's with him to do the same action job.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Thanks for the after-action report. I'm happy it was something simple, and that the gun is now better than it was before.