5.7 Good Enough for You?

[joshua]

With the PS90 gaining popularity I was wondering how you guys feel about using the 5.7 to defend your home and family. Most guys using this sub gun/carbine have their job dictating the use of the FN P90 or PS90. Would you rather have the ballistics of 221 Fireball or a bigger diameter bullet? This is strictly for defensive purposes so it is not a SHTF/ITEOTWAWKI scenario.

Also post your carbine of choice if you have one and rely on it for defense.

josh

 

[FirstFreedom]

Frankly it's a useless joke of a cartridge in a long gun (except for just fun plinking).

UNLESS it's select-fire. The ones I see for sale are not, so..... The non-military semi-auto versions with the castrated mags are useless as teats on a boar hog, IMO. There's no reason I can see not to go to at least a .223 in a shoulder-fired, nonconcealable weapon.

It's plenty good enough for me to kill large rats with, however.

 

[Geronimo45]

I imagine it'd be good enough... I expect that there's considerably less muzzle flash and muzzle blast from the 5.7 than there is from a full-power 5.56 Nato.
Still, I understand that it's a darned loud beastie to fire. I'd prefer the 5.7 Pistol to the rifle in a HD role, myself... just because I'm of the opinion that a pistol's easier to use when you don't have a team of guys backing you up - but to each his own.

Carbine of choice? M1 Carbine, of course.

 

[MDman]

Well I don’t think the .223 has enough punch, so definitely not the 5.7, When it comes to HD I think the shotgun is king.

that being said, I think most people will give up on stealing your TV regardless of what they’ve just been shot with.

 

[kozak6]

Would you feel safe defending your house with a .22 magnum rifle?

The PS90 is way too expensive for me, as is the ammo (which is also rather hard to find).

I'm more of a shotgun guy anyways.

 

[BMARM4]

Does anyone who has answered this thread so far actually own a 5.7? Didn't think so.

I own all three, an AR, a FiveSeven pistol, and a PS90. If you say the 5.7 is not enough gun, you don't know what your talking about.

First, the question is a little too broad. It really depends on the cirmumstances like where you are, are you inside the house or out? Are there family members in adjacent rooms? Is the area where a gun fight is likely to take place open or tight.

If I'm dealing with someone on my property who is shooting from the outside at some distance, then the AR makes sense. If I'm dealing with a threat inside or medium range then I want the PS90. If I'm CCW out and about or in my vehicle 20 rounds in my FiveSeven pistol are hard to beat. Though my CCW is a .45.

Here's the deal, the .223 or 5.6 carries a lot of energy and with most ammo missed shots are going to penetrate many walls. Walls with potential family members behind them. And in the home, an AR is NOT a graceful weapon.

But if the threat is outside and at some distance, say 50 yards or more go with the AR. Actually I take that back. If the threat is behind some cover such as a car or a wall that you are certain no family or friendly is beyond, let them taste .223 or 5.6 slicing through car skin like paper, or a wall like a loaf of bread.

The 5.7 on the other had is designed to fragment on impact with hard surfaces, except for the armor pearcing which you won't have as a citizen anyway. The PS90 sweeps much faser and is much quicker to both aquire the target and get back on for repeat shots. And with the 50 round magazine, you have plenty of those. Oh, and it is deadly accurate out to 200 yards. With light and / or laser mounted on the rails and an Eotec on top, the short pup held near the center of the upper body swings fast and effortless. And don't be fooled, that little bullet (if you have purchased the right ammo) is moving at closer to 2100 fps rather than 1800 as stated earlier.

The FiveSeven pistol. Take 20 rounds of the PS90 ammo, place it in a small CCW with bottom rail for light/laser. But remember, it isn't so much about how much or how big, but where you put it. Make your shots count and you won't need but 1 round.

 

[BMARM4]

"Would you feel safe defending your house with a .22 magnum rifle?

The PS90 is way too expensive for me, as is the ammo (which is also rather hard to find)."

The 5.7 ain't no .22 mag! The PS90 is a little on the costly side, but compared to what? An Ed Brown 1911, no. The ammo is easy for me to find. I can buy off the shelf locally and as much as I want. But I have the RCBS holders and dies and collect my brass and reload. Cuts the price down considerably.

But you are correct...a shotgun is probably the best all around home defense weapon.

 

[mdao]

For my personal usage, there are better options. I personally prefer a AR-15 as it's more versatile, has better a terminal ballistic effect range, and the recovery time difference isn't that big for me.

But, for people with minimal gun experience, I can't think of a better option than a FN PS-90 with an EoTech or Aimpoint. Easy to aim, fast handling, almost non-existent recoil, plenty of ammunition, and reasonably decent ammunition performance. Sure, there are cheaper alternatives that perform almost as well in this role, but the PS-90 is a perfectly good choice.

The 5.7 ain't no .22 mag!

Just about.

The SS197 load shoots a 40 gr V-Max at about 2000-2100 fps. Penetration in gelatin is 9-10" with expansion to ~ .35"
Remington's equivalent .22 Mag load shoots a 40 gr JHP at about 1900 fps. Penetration in gelatin is ~ 10" with expansion to ~ .35".

Source: Brassfetcher.com 5.7x28mm Brassfetcher.com .22 Magnum

There's less penetration than the FBI standards recommend, but perfectly serviceable and not any worse than many premium pistol JHP rounds. When compared to .22 Magnum, 5.7x28mm has centerfire reliability, higher capacity magazines, and pistols/carbines more suited for self defense usage. The Five-Seven and PS-90 make for much better SD tools than the Single Six and 10/22 Magnum Those factors make 5.7 mm a much better self defense cartridge than .22 Magnum.

 

[mikejonestkd]

I am in the same camp as FF on the ' merits' of the 5.7.

It looks like a fun round and the one rifle I have seen shot was nice, but it has no advantage over an easily affordable AR or AK style rifle and is short on terminal performance compared to the 5.56 nato or the 7.62 x 39

Personally I would use an 870 pump with a +2 mag extension...but that's just me. Cheap, effective, tons of energy and battle proven.

 

[joshua]

No doubt that the 5.7 is a fun cartridge to shoot through the PS90. With a $1600 price tag and high cost of ammo, a SBR AR-15 is cheaper. Honestly if I had the money, I'd buy one, but to use for a self defense scenario I think I will stick with my reliable firearms. I usually keep a 45 ACP Colt commander and a S&W 5906 on standby with enough magazines to drive a gang away. I also keep a Mossberg 8 shot loaded in the safe. I do have a carbine and it is a 16" AR. josh

 

[c4igrant]

The PS90 is a fun gun and like them, but it does not compete with an AR. One interesting thing is that the 5.7 ammo now is cheaper in bulk than most of the quality .223 ammo out there. Figure that one out.


C4

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Here's the deal, the .223 or 5.6 carries a lot of energy and with most ammo missed shots are going to penetrate many walls. Walls with potential family members behind them. And in the home, an AR is NOT a graceful weapon.

Huh? An AR can shoot a 40gr VMAX around 1,000fps faster than the 5.7... how is that going to result in MORE penetration? Of course if you load up with 62gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw .223, you'll get more penetration - just like 5.7 will shoot through houses handily with the LE-restricted ammo available. In any case, if shooting through walls is a concern, your best bet is not to miss the target.

 

[Tamara]

The 5.7 ain't no .22 mag!

Sorry, but the terminal ballistics say otherwise. Wound cavities don't care how cool-looking the gun was, what Spec Ops teams used them, what science fiction movies they were in, or how much they cost; all the wound cavity cares about is the bullet's weight, construction, diameter, and velocity.

The poster above gave you your best advice in re.: overpenetration.

 

[p99guy]

And no Barth, the LEO SS190 doesnt "shoot through houses", or exit people generally.far safer than 9mm fmj out of a pistol. ( I have used it.)

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

And no Barth, the LEO SS190 doesnt "shoot through houses", or exit people generally.far safer than 9mm fmj out of a pistol.

Actually, I had read of a friendly fire incident where SS190 passed through a garage and injured an officer outside the garage during an arrest. I believe it is over at Tactical Forums in the archives; but it has been a while so I may be foggy on the details. That is what sparked the comment.

However, considering that SS190 won't penetrate 12" in gel, you are probably right that it won't penetrate far in a house either. My main point was just that choosing the type of ammo plays an important role in penetration.

 

[Manedwolf]

You should practice a lot with any gun you think you might use for defense.

And practicing with the PS90 could make you go bankrupt.

One interesting thing is that the 5.7 ammo now is cheaper in bulk than most of the quality .223 ammo out there.

Like what sort of prices? I can still get Guatemalan 5.56 pretty cheap, and that's excellent, hot stuff.

 

[Medula Oblongata]

First of all, the SS197 round from a 5" pistol is faster by several hundred feet per second than than the 22 magnum from a 26" rifle barrel. When fired from the 16" carbine its nearly 700 feet per second faster.

Second of all, the FBI 12" standard isn't met by a great number of 'premium' factory self-defense loadings INCLUDING the Federal EFMJ and the Remington Golden Sabre (in .45 ACP).

Thirdly, a shotgun is quite useful in the home...but only when 0 or larger shot is used. Defending yourself with cheapo Wal-Mart #7 1/2 birdshot is stooooopid (notice all the 'o's'?) as it will not penetrate the human torso or skull. Don't believe me? Read the "box o truth" testing on the subject. No, I won't post the URL, do some research yourselves..Although judging by some of the responses here that is an ability some lack; so I better post it or the retards won't be able to find it. Here you go:http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm Scroll to the bottom of the page, or better yet, read the whole site. It'll dispell a lot of the nonsense that some of you believe as gospel.

And the final point I will make is thus: Don't believe anything you read on a gun forum. Its as pointless as going to a tree huggers website to learn about global warming. Think for yourselves and don't believe anything unless you have personally researched it or the findings are consistant with what you know to be true.

Oh yeah, and one more thing. Having put a 5.7x28 round into a living, breathing badguy; the round is pretty good. I choose to carry it over the .40 caliber typically worn in my department. I like having 60 rounds at my fingertips, and I like the controlled recoil.

 

[mdao]

First of all, the SS197 round from a 5" pistol is faster by several hundred feet per second than than the 22 magnum from a 26" rifle barrel. When fired from the 16" carbine its nearly 700 feet per second faster.

I don't buy that, and neither do chronograph results.

|---------------P90-------|----------PS90---------|------FiveseveN----|
SS197 |----(1950 fps)-----------(2100 fps)-------------(1700 fps)-----|

FN PS90 firing SS197 at bare gelatin. Shot impacted at 2054 ft/sec
FN PS90 firing SS197 at heavy clothing. Shot impacted at 2063 ft/sec
FN 5.7 firing SS197 at heavy clothing. Shot impacted at 1932 ft/sec

With a 40 gr bullet for 5.7x28mm does ~2100 fps out of a rifle, ~1900 fps out of a pistol. The standard .22 WMR load is 40 gr at 1910 fps out of a rifle, 1550 fps out of a pistol. That's an advantage of ~200 fps when 5.7x28mm is compared to .22 WMR in rifles and ~ 450 fps in pistols.

So, 5.7x28mm out of a pistol is dead even with .22 WMR in a rifle, and 5.7x28mm out of the PS-90 is ~ 200 FPS ahead. This is not "faster by several hundred feet per second" or "nearly 700 feet per second faster."

And as noted before, gelatin testing doesn't show much difference at all in penetration/expansion between SS197 and controlled expansion .22 WMR loads.

 

[Webleymkv]

First of all, the SS197 round from a 5" pistol is faster by several hundred feet per second than than the 22 magnum from a 26" rifle barrel. When fired from the 16" carbine its nearly 700 feet per second faster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.7_x_28_mm_cartridge

Have a look at the ballistics. It's got about the same muzzle energy as most major caliber pistols when fired from the P90 (except for the rather puny SS193 load). When fired from the FiveSeven's 5" shorter barrel however, I suspect that the ballistics will suffer greatly. I can see this cartridge being somewhat useful in a carbine or submachinegun, but not from a pistol. For a high velocity round, I'd prefer a hot loaded 9mm, .357 Sig, 9x25, 10mm, 7.62x25, or one of the various Magnum Revolvers due to the increased weight and energy from a handgun.

Thirdly, a shotgun is quite useful in the home...but only when 0 or larger shot is used. Defending yourself with cheapo Wal-Mart #7 1/2 birdshot is stooooopid (notice all the 'o's'?) as it will not penetrate the human torso or skull. Don't believe me? Read the "box o truth" testing on the subject.

People and wall boards are quite different. All that the Box O' Truth article offers is penetration tests in an irrelevant media and unconfirmed anecdotal evidence.

No, I won't post the URL, do some research yourselves..Although judging by some of the responses here that is an ability some lack; so I better post it or the retards won't be able to find it.

Scroll to the bottom of the page, or better yet, read the whole site. It'll dispell a lot of the nonsense that some of you tards believe as gospel.

Wow, you must not want to be very popular. Just what did you hope to add to the discussion with such remarks?

And the final point I will make is thus: Don't believe anything you read on a gun forum. Its as pointless as going to a tree huggers website to learn about global warming.

You seem to have some awfully strong opinions that you've presented as fact. Maybe you should take a bit of your own advice.

Oh yeah, and one more thing. Having put a 5.7x28 round into a living, breathing badguy; the round is pretty good.

Think for yourselves and don't believe anything unless you have personally researched it or the findings are consistant with what you know to be true

Yes, these last two statements are out of order. However, I think perhaps we should all apply the second to the first. Let us stop for a moment and remember that we're all posting anonymously on the internet. Claims of personal exploits are rather hard to prove when they are made anonymously.

 

[Joe the Redneck]

5.7 is the shape of things to come.

Can you imagine the arguments in the future, "Get yer'self a REAL gun boy, You need a 9mm, that dang ol' 5.7 ain't no good fer nothing."

Meh? Sounds like change. Big hole, little recoil, sound good to me. But I'm a sissy.

Peace
Joe