45 ACP shooters, do you know/care about 45 Super and .450 SMC?

[Pistoler0]

Fellow 45 ACP enthusiasts,

it has always surprised me how very few 45 ACP shooters that I encounter at the range or the store seem to know about the 45 Super and 450 SMC. These two rounds are higher pressure (32,000 psi) but identical in size to a regular 45 ACP round, and can therefore be shot out of 45 ACP pistols that are rated for it - or slightly modified (i.e heavier recoil spring) to handle it.

In my opinion, these two cartridges bring the 45 into the modern era. Factory offerings from Double Tap and Underwood boast muzzle energies besting those from hot loaded 10mm factory ammo, and can compare to .357 Magnum.

The gun industry and the 45 ACP community seem to have ignored these two loads, and I just don't understand WHY. Why aren't 45 ACP shooters excited or even knowledgeable about these? And why aren't more 45 ACP firearms rated for 45 Super? < when often the same model is available in 10mm >

 

[Pistoler0]

The gun industry and the 45 ACP community seem to have ignored these two loads, and I just don't understand WHY. ... Why aren't more 45 ACP firearms rated for 45 Super? < when often the same model is available in 10mm >

Example:
The Glock 20 and the Glock 21 are basically the same pistol. The Glock 20 is rated for hot loaded 10mm loads, but the Glock 21 is not rated for 45 Super. WHY??

I mean if it were, the 45 ACP pistol you buy could also shoot a round that rivals hot loaded 10mm, and your 45 pistol would be good for hunting and bear defense. I would say (I know I'll probably get hell for saying this) that there is no need for 10mm auto if you have a pistol that can shoot 45 Super.

It just makes no sense that it isn't wildly popular!

 

[sigarms228]

Yes know about 45 Super and supposedly my HK45 can shoot it but I don't really care. If I was where I could be confronted by bears the 45 Super would be better but at that point I would probably be carrying a 44 Magnum revolver.

 

[HighValleyRanch]

I worked on getting my Glock 21 set up for .45 super.
A fully supported Storm Lake barrel and tungsten guide rod with heavy spring.
My brother bought some super case and loaded some up, about +P 45.ACP levels.
Shot nice out of the glock set up.

Got for my woods carry, but dang that glock is thick to carry!

 

[RickB]

My longslide .45 wasn't seeing any use after I stopped shooting USPSA, so I converted it to .45 Super (mainspring, recoil spring, firing pin stop).
I still don't shoot it much, but if I absolutely have to get a 230 grain bullet up to 1200fps, I'm all set.
I rarely ever shoot at anything but cardboard, so I just don't need Super ballistics.

 

[44 AMP]

I've heard about the .45 Super, never heard of the .450SMC (till now), but am not interested in either of them.

And, I'm not interested in pushing a 230gr to 1200fps. Because I push them to 1500fps!

I've got a couple pistols chambered for the .45 Win Mag, and what it does leaves the .45 Super (and, I assume the .450SMC) in the dust, velocity wise.

Granted, they are a bit bigger than service class pistols, but so what? There's no free lunch. A big part of the .45acp's success is that it has proven to have enough power and still being controllable enough to use it at speed, in a package size and weight that most folks can manage.

And I think that is probably the reason there's so little interest in the .45Super, etc, because first, there isn't a perceived need for more power in a duty gun, and second, adding more power in that duty gun adds recoil, which reduces controllability in rapid fire. And while people would like more power they aren't willing to accept bigger, heavier guns or greater recoil to get it.

Unless you're someone like me, who is willing to move fully to the next level up, in terms of both cartridge power and guns big and heavy enough to manage it. And those of us who do shoot magnum semi autos aren't generally interested in niche rounds of lesser ability in duty size pistols, where standard rounds serve adequately.

of course, that's just my opinion, and worth what you paid for it,...

 

[Aguila Blanca]

45 ACP shooters, do you know/care about 45 Super and .450 SMC?

I know about 45 Super and have zero interest in it.

I had never heard of .450 SMC. Now that I have heard of it ... I have zero interest in it.

 

[totaldla]

Seems to be bucking the trend towards 9mm by a new generation of shooters.

The Super doesn't do anything for me as I use 44mag when I'm worried about bitey/scratchy things

 

[cslinger]

Yep. I have fired super, not from any of my guns but do have a USP .45 that should handle it if I got a hair up my butt to do so.

For me personally and my needs/uses they don’t make much sense barring the giggle factor.

 

[Forte S+W]

As a matter of fact, I just recently purchased my first .45 ACP Pistol, the Heckler & Koch USP45 Elite, of which a big part of the attraction lies in the fact that it's rated for .45 Super right out of the box.

I think the reason why .45 Super/.450 SMC aren't more popular is for that very reason, because there are very few firearms rated to shoot .45 Super right out of the box. Sure, most firearms rated to shoot .45 ACP +P can be modified to shoot .45 Super as well, but these modifications tend to be more extensive than many are aware of, and often come at the expense of rendering ordinary .45 ACP unreliable out of the gun. (Some say all you need is a heavier recoil spring, but that's not entirely accurate. You need a barrel with a fully supported chamber for one, not to mention a flat firing pin stop, heavier recoil spring, heavier hammer/striker spring, and in some cases frame buffers are required too.)
Furthermore, .45 Super/.450 SMC really doesn't do anything that 10mm Auto doesn't, so most folks sooner opt for 10mm Auto over .45 Super.

As for why nobody produces firearms specifically rated for .45 Super, it's because the cartridge was doomed to obscurity by greed when the son of the man who invented the cartridge had the name Trademarked, thus preventing anyone from putting out a pistol with ".45 Super" on the slide, as well as ammo manufacturers from loading any ".45 Super" ammo without paying a licensing fee to do so. (For example, the H&K USP45 doesn't officially state anywhere that it's rated for .45 Super by name, merely that it's rated for any factory loaded .45 ACP ammunition.) As for .450 SMC, it just didn't come out soon enough.

Last but not least, not many folks agree with the flawed logic that .45 ACP needs to be updated when it's still just as effective as it has always been, which is generally regarded to be on the upper level of semiautomatic pistol cartridge effectiveness. Also, 9mm Luger is actually an older cartridge than .45 ACP, so the only bit of flawed logic that dictates that .45 ACP is behind the times is that it's a low pressure, subsonic cartridge. Meanwhile, if you consider the relatively high pressure cartridge, .40 S&W, and compare its stats side-by-side, then you'll notice that they're both very close, so where's the necessity for .45 ACP to be high pressure when it's already on par with a high pressure big bore cartridge? Bears, maybe? But there are already better cartridges for the role, so there you have it.

That being said, as someone who didn't already own a 10mm Auto Pistol nor even a .45 ACP Pistol, the H&K USP45 held an attraction which I couldn't deny.

 

[kenny53]

Don't need them, don't want another caliber to try and find. I have tried to stay with NATO rounds more or less. For shooting competition I only shoot against me and I lose most the time.

 

[BornFighting88]

If it isn't broke.... D O N ' T fix it. Dang 230 grain hardball will STILL go through a door, through the next wall, take the crim's arm off, and beat him to a bloody pulp with it.

Just my humble observation. Your views may, of course, differ.

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

45 ACP shooters, do you know/care about 45 Super and .450 SMC?


Nope. Never heard of them, and could care less.

 

[Siggy-06]

If it’s not a caliber that’s easy to find in stores or online, and for a reasonable plinking price, I don’t want it. I would like to see a new cartridge a little bigger that the .45acp but smaller than the .50ae. Something like the .460 or .480 bullet diameter, but could fit in a 1911 or Witness large frame.

 

[eflyguy]

Pretty much most of the above.

Yeah, I've heard of them. Just like 30-06 and .380ACP. I have no use for them.

My 1911 is the only pistol I own "purely for fun" and it happens to be pretty. Everything else is for competition or defense. And I keep JHP in the 1911 at home because, well, as everyone here probably knows, shooting twice is just silly..

 

[Forte S+W]

I've heard about the .45 Super, never heard of the .450SMC (till now), but am not interested in either of them.

And, I'm not interested in pushing a 230gr to 1200fps. Because I push them to 1500fps!

I've got a couple pistols chambered for the .45 Win Mag, and what it does leaves the .45 Super (and, I assume the .450SMC) in the dust, velocity wise.

.450 SMC is just Double Tap's unlicensed variant of the .45 Super which uses a small Magnum Rifle Primer in place of a Large Pistol Primer as a means to strengthen the case head, (addressing the .45 Super's need for full chamber support, as well as mitigating primer flattening/flow) and increasing the pressure/performance a little bit. Typically, .450 SMC runs at 32,000psi over the .45 Super's 28,000psi, and goes anywhere from 50-100fps faster than equivalent .45 Super loads, so it's a bit more powerful, but nothing too special. (Definitely not a .45 WinMag, nor even a .460 Rowland for that matter.)

 

[Shadow9mm]

heard of 45 super and 460 rowland, never head of .450smc

I'm guessing the reason many 45 acp guns are not rated for 45 super and .450smc is two fold. the action itself will handle it. The heavier rounds may need heavier springs making balancing the action for both difficult. and the barrel design. yes most can handle 10mm. however if they are using 45acp dimeter barrel that's a lot more steel in the barrel. with the 45 super and 450smc its higher pressure, but no extra barrel material to handle the higher pressures.

 

[RickB]

The Super doesn't do anything for me as I use 44mag when I'm worried about bitey/scratchy things

Except provide 50% more rounds on target, in 50% less time.

 

[HiBC]

I can understand experimenting with it. I have not,yet. I don't know that I will.

I select a tool to do a job. Always,there are tradeoffs. What is the job ?
If its EDC,the gun I will carry vs leave home wins. Slim and light with reasonable mag capacity shine bright.
My 1911/ Milt Sparks 45 stays home in favor of my M+P 9C. I'm considering a Shield. I have to weigh $ vs benefit.

No need to restate the 9mm vs 45 caliber argument.Once we have ADEQUATE penetration,and good bullet performance. and a gun, getting the holes punched quickly matters. Controllability matters.

For SD/EDC,......I'm not sure the 45 Super takes me in the right direction.

Guns are expensive. I have limited resources. I cannot invest in every whim.

If I have a compact EDC 9mm that suits me,time to move on. Afford to introduce my Grandson to a forty inch Northern Pike.

I'm not particularly concerned about bear guns these days. My 5 in .44 Mag SBH is something I have,and have shot since about 1975. Its familiar. It would hunt,too,as well as a 45 Super. And realistically, a $600 10mm Glock is practical as a strap on bear tool.
I just don't have a need to fill.

There is one other factor. Supply chain vs Murphy's Law. I generally don't think of myself as careless or stupid. Still have 2 eyes and 10 fingers .

Part of that is heading off bad situations. "Only one reloading powder on the bench" is an example .

Going to the range likely will result in more than one 1911 (or 45) at the firing line. Mostly NOT 45 Supers. IMO, to have identical appearing ammo loaded to higher pressure is not a good plan.

Thats why .357 vs 38 spl, 45 Colt vs 454 C, 45 ACP vs 460 Roland use a longer case.

I don't need to worry about it.

But it IS an interesting idea!

 

[Jim Watson]

Yes, no.