44 if you think a flat profile Winchester soft core jacketed 357 mag pistol bullet driven close to 2000 fps can hold up to the friction from the air as loads approach 2000fps, try some for yourself. They may group at 25 yards, but I know what I observed with those particular bullets at 50. A spattering of silver lead residue on my target paper and I didn't miss. They were fine out of a revolver at around 1450fps. Hornady XTPs are probably a lot tougher but at 2000fps a JSP is a better choice for a 357 mag rifle. Just my 2 cents.
357 Magnum Target Shooting.
- Thread starter Recycled bullet
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Recycled bullet
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I used to shoot lots of 110 grain JHP @17.5 grains of 2400 or @22 grains of H110/W296 through a 4" Ruger SP101 and 2.25" 60-9.
Those loadings are fire crackers.
Also used 20gr./H110 and 17gr/2400 powder charges with the Remington 125 Grain semi jacket scalloped hollow point. Those were the most accurate out of my bolt action 357. I may revisit those loads this winter.
I wish that my 77/357 and Ruger Blackhawk had a 1 and 7 twist like how my Ruger American 300 BLACKOUT does. I could load 3 grains of fast pistol powder in 357 MAG brass with 124 grain powder coated cast lead hollow points and not have to worry about case setback because 357MAG is a rimmed cartridge.
Is 300 BLK a ballistically optimized higher performance 357 MAGNUM?
Those loadings are fire crackers.
Also used 20gr./H110 and 17gr/2400 powder charges with the Remington 125 Grain semi jacket scalloped hollow point. Those were the most accurate out of my bolt action 357. I may revisit those loads this winter.
I wish that my 77/357 and Ruger Blackhawk had a 1 and 7 twist like how my Ruger American 300 BLACKOUT does. I could load 3 grains of fast pistol powder in 357 MAG brass with 124 grain powder coated cast lead hollow points and not have to worry about case setback because 357MAG is a rimmed cartridge.
Is 300 BLK a ballistically optimized higher performance 357 MAGNUM?
44 if you think a flat profile Winchester soft core jacketed 357 mag pistol bullet driven close to 2000 fps can hold up to the friction from the air as loads approach 2000fps, try some for yourself.
I guess I'll have to. The bullets I used were Remingtons and they held up fine to 100yds launched from a Marlin carbine at 2200fps.
Until they hit something. (anything) THEN, they blew up
Simple point of fact, not every bullet is ok at every speed.
The problem is that 125gr JHPs are optimized for self defense at the speeds found in most defensive handgun barrel lengths, and the carbine adds some 500fps give or take and that goes well past the upper limit of the bullet's controlled expansion velocity range.
JSP 125s might do better, I don't know. I do know that 158s, driven into the 1800fps range do much better penetrating and holding together.
Apples and oranges. The .300 Blackout is a rimless bottle necked .30 caliber 55,000 psi cartridge. The .357 is a rimmed strait wall .35 caliber 35,000 psi cartridge.
ONE load with a 125gr bullet from a carbine length barrel happens to have the same approximate velocity. Other than that, they have little in common
I guess I'll have to. The bullets I used were Remingtons and they held up fine to 100yds launched from a Marlin carbine at 2200fps.
Until they hit something. (anything) THEN, they blew up
Simple point of fact, not every bullet is ok at every speed.
The problem is that 125gr JHPs are optimized for self defense at the speeds found in most defensive handgun barrel lengths, and the carbine adds some 500fps give or take and that goes well past the upper limit of the bullet's controlled expansion velocity range.
JSP 125s might do better, I don't know. I do know that 158s, driven into the 1800fps range do much better penetrating and holding together.
Apples and oranges. The .300 Blackout is a rimless bottle necked .30 caliber 55,000 psi cartridge. The .357 is a rimmed strait wall .35 caliber 35,000 psi cartridge.
ONE load with a 125gr bullet from a carbine length barrel happens to have the same approximate velocity. Other than that, they have little in common
44 the challenge will be finding 125gr winchester JHP component bullets. You can't order them for $80/1000 anymore. I used to load jacketed 357 for well under $7 a box but now you'd be hard pressed to load 357 for less than $20/50. Cast lead can still be loaded for around $11 and less if you cast your own. At today's prices, Speer and Hornady seem to have better deals than Remington and Winchester on Jacketed bullets.
bamaranger
New member
carbine 125 gr, and .357 GP load
Quite some time ago I shot a good bit of W-W 125 gr JHP from my Marlin carbine. When my agency finally switched to mag ammo after ditching the +P+ '38 Treasury load, there was always some .357/125 about, and a fair amount of it went through that carbine. The load was terribly destructive on tissue, explosive like, proven on feral's and ethunizing deer at deer v. auto accidents. Ammo manuracture ran the table, some years W-W, other years, Federal or Rem. None of it ever desintegrated in flight and I typically zeroed the little lever gun "on" at 100 yds. I suppose stuff happens, but my experience does not match the commentary.
I have heard and read of bullets "misting away' in flight, usually light .224 dia slugs shot at extreme velocity at or near 4000 fps in high humidity conditions. Common in those accounts were high rifling twist rates.
The .357 mag load I shot the most, and still use, is a midrange load driving a 158 gr LSWC to 1000fps. Powerful enough to seem magnum like, enough authority to handle anything I might want or need to shoot and reasonably affordable, even today. Certain batches of commercial slugs would lead a bit, others would not, and I bought what I could find at the best price. My 4-5/8" B-hawk is still zeroed for that load.
Quite some time ago I shot a good bit of W-W 125 gr JHP from my Marlin carbine. When my agency finally switched to mag ammo after ditching the +P+ '38 Treasury load, there was always some .357/125 about, and a fair amount of it went through that carbine. The load was terribly destructive on tissue, explosive like, proven on feral's and ethunizing deer at deer v. auto accidents. Ammo manuracture ran the table, some years W-W, other years, Federal or Rem. None of it ever desintegrated in flight and I typically zeroed the little lever gun "on" at 100 yds. I suppose stuff happens, but my experience does not match the commentary.
I have heard and read of bullets "misting away' in flight, usually light .224 dia slugs shot at extreme velocity at or near 4000 fps in high humidity conditions. Common in those accounts were high rifling twist rates.
The .357 mag load I shot the most, and still use, is a midrange load driving a 158 gr LSWC to 1000fps. Powerful enough to seem magnum like, enough authority to handle anything I might want or need to shoot and reasonably affordable, even today. Certain batches of commercial slugs would lead a bit, others would not, and I bought what I could find at the best price. My 4-5/8" B-hawk is still zeroed for that load.
bam,
You were using factory ammo and I was using handloads. I think my "misting" loads consisted of a max load of 296 behind the WW125jhp bullets with estimated speeds around 2200fps. It's very likely you were using ammo optimized for handguns that didn't reach those same speeds out of a rifle. Your description of 223 bullets misting away describes my experience exactly. I never had any issues with heavier JHP bullets pushing 1700fps or so out of the rifle or with mid range 357 or 38+P loaded with the same Winchester 125gr bullets. A factory 158grain American Eagle JSP produces about 1800fps from a rifle.
You were using factory ammo and I was using handloads. I think my "misting" loads consisted of a max load of 296 behind the WW125jhp bullets with estimated speeds around 2200fps. It's very likely you were using ammo optimized for handguns that didn't reach those same speeds out of a rifle. Your description of 223 bullets misting away describes my experience exactly. I never had any issues with heavier JHP bullets pushing 1700fps or so out of the rifle or with mid range 357 or 38+P loaded with the same Winchester 125gr bullets. A factory 158grain American Eagle JSP produces about 1800fps from a rifle.
something to consider, when bullets come apart in flight, is that its not just linear velocity, or "friction with air" but the bullet's rotational velocity as well.
Spin a bullet on its axis (twist rate) too fast for what it is built to take, and it comes apart. Rare, but it can happen. The solution is simple, stick to driving various bullets within their intended designed velocity range.
If you don't know, or are unsure, ask the bullet maker, they will tell you what their bullet is built to take.
Spin a bullet on its axis (twist rate) too fast for what it is built to take, and it comes apart. Rare, but it can happen. The solution is simple, stick to driving various bullets within their intended designed velocity range.
If you don't know, or are unsure, ask the bullet maker, they will tell you what their bullet is built to take.
One of the down things about Hornady's velocity guide in the box is that sometimes in the box is the only place you find it, and that may be too late,,,
Some years ago I bought a box of Hornady 87gr JHPs, intending to use them with certain loads in my 25-06. Only AFTER opening the box did I find the little paper warning from Hornady, that those bullets were not to be used in loads exceeding 3400fps.
This was a couple hundred fps slower that what I was looking for and I was not happy about not finding any mention of velocity limits anywhere other than inside the box. I'm pretty sure they do a better job today, and I know they made lots of mention of their SX bullets velocity limitations.
Still, the point is that one needs to be aware of, and if needed do some research to determine if a given bullet is suitable for the use you have in mind.
IF the point is to ring steel at long range, expansion and penetration in game is a machts nichts.
If you already have a game load, learning to ring steel with it at long range is another matter. And, a bit more research will be needed to determine that the game load will still be effective and efficient at that same long range.
And, Particularly when starting velocity comes from the barrel of a revolver, rather than a carbine.
Some years ago I bought a box of Hornady 87gr JHPs, intending to use them with certain loads in my 25-06. Only AFTER opening the box did I find the little paper warning from Hornady, that those bullets were not to be used in loads exceeding 3400fps.
This was a couple hundred fps slower that what I was looking for and I was not happy about not finding any mention of velocity limits anywhere other than inside the box. I'm pretty sure they do a better job today, and I know they made lots of mention of their SX bullets velocity limitations.
Still, the point is that one needs to be aware of, and if needed do some research to determine if a given bullet is suitable for the use you have in mind.
IF the point is to ring steel at long range, expansion and penetration in game is a machts nichts.
If you already have a game load, learning to ring steel with it at long range is another matter. And, a bit more research will be needed to determine that the game load will still be effective and efficient at that same long range.
And, Particularly when starting velocity comes from the barrel of a revolver, rather than a carbine.
Recycled bullet
New member
That may be ("apples and oranges") as they are very different cartridges. 357 Magnum is from the 1930s and 300 blackout is from 2010'ish. I am handloading both -also with cast hollow pointed bullets for each specific caliber. I like them each for their own particular reasons. 38 and 357 have between them almost a century of loading data, reasonable opinions, science and exploration etc available to look at. There are so many bullets in 35 caliber that function very well in a 357 or 38 revolver or both as far as feeding- firing -accuracy -and terminal ballistics for the handgun hunter and fantastic accuracy for the Target shooter. The accuracy and power in 357 Magnum has got me hooked. Out of any caliber that I load 38 and 357 is the one I have the most experience with. I want to buy a progressive reloading machine just to load 357 Magnum. I may do that in the next year or so.44 if you think a flat profile Winchester soft core jacketed 357 mag pistol bullet driven close to 2000 fps can hold up to the friction from the air as loads approach 2000fps, try some for yourself.
I guess I'll have to. The bullets I used were Remingtons and they held up fine to 100yds launched from a Marlin carbine at 2200fps.
Until they hit something. (anything) THEN, they blew up
Simple point of fact, not every bullet is ok at every speed.
The problem is that 125gr JHPs are optimized for self defense at the speeds found in most defensive handgun barrel lengths, and the carbine adds some 500fps give or take and that goes well past the upper limit of the bullet's controlled expansion velocity range.
JSP 125s might do better, I don't know. I do know that 158s, driven into the 1800fps range do much better penetrating and holding together.
Apples and oranges. The .300 Blackout is a rimless bottle necked .30 caliber 55,000 psi cartridge. The .357 is a rimmed strait wall .35 caliber 35,000 psi cartridge.
ONE load with a 125gr bullet from a carbine length barrel happens to have the same approximate velocity. Other than that, they have little in common
300 blackout is very interesting cartridge. It's very -very cast bullet friendly, in spite of my lack of experience with it ...having been loading it for only a couple of months... it has been rewarding.
Looking into the loading data it says that I may be using similar charge mass of the identical gunpowders to push similar weight bullets at similar velocities when fired from rifle length barrels. The shorter the barrel gets the more obvious the optimization of 300 blackout becomes. It looks like 300 blackout can push a 200 plus grain bullet significantly faster than 357 Magnum can each measured from a 7-in barrel. I'd really an afternoon to test a single shot 300 blackout pistol and a chronograph and test that for myself.
300 blackout is a 55,000 PSI cartridge designed to be operated in an AR-15.
However that does not mean that I have to load my brass to that high pressure especially with my homemade bullets I don't think the results would be very good [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]
I've been loading 300 blackout and 357 Magnum to similar low pressure in the results have been okay. Brass seems to last a long time, it doesn't seem to grow terribly fast, and the bolt action rifle is fantastic with 30 round magazines. I have some more work to do as far as getting it to feed perfectly but I'm getting the hang of it.
I wish my ruger blackhawk held more ammunition in the cylinder. If that was a 10 shot revolver it would be the most funnest target shooting pistol ever. Does anybody use 357 Magnum magazines to speed load a single action revolver?
What .357 Magnum magazines might those be??
The only one I know of that you might get your hands on easily (but NOT cheaply) is the Desert Eagle. And, it wouldn't be a good choice for "speed loading" an SA revolver, because the rounds don't "thumb out" easily.
I'd be willing to bet you'd have an easier time, and be faster using a speed strip.
Knew a guy who used a GI 1911A1 mag to "speedload" his .45ACP SA, that worked fairly well, but rounds strip out of 1911 mag easily. I doubt you would have as good luck with a .357 Magazine, DE, Coonan, or one of the uber rare LAR Grizzly's. Speed strip, holds the rounds well, is a bit flexible, and its smaller and waaaay cheaper than any .357 magazine.
bbqncigars
New member
Had to check the Grizzly mag on the 'bay. $500!! That makes the Coonan mags at $350-400 look reasonable.
Speaking of which, this thread inspired me to set up the range bag with the Coonan and MR73 for a magnum plinking outing. Just have to wait for the rain to break.
Speaking of which, this thread inspired me to set up the range bag with the Coonan and MR73 for a magnum plinking outing. Just have to wait for the rain to break.
Recycled bullet
New member
It's less trouble to locate a 308 magazine for my old school Browning BLR then it is to find a quality 357 Magnum magazine I'd like to keep my arms and legs thank you very much [emoji1787]
I'm getting faster for ejecting the empties, and when it's time to reload I can stage the six cartridges by grabbing them between my fingers and use my thumb to push them in.
If the cylinder had a positive stop at each charge hole and if it were possible to rotate in the opposite direction it would speed up ejector rod alignment and help eliminate operator error ejecting empties.
I really should have bought one of these years ago!!! This is the most fun I've had with revolvers since I started.
I'm getting faster for ejecting the empties, and when it's time to reload I can stage the six cartridges by grabbing them between my fingers and use my thumb to push them in.
If the cylinder had a positive stop at each charge hole and if it were possible to rotate in the opposite direction it would speed up ejector rod alignment and help eliminate operator error ejecting empties.
I really should have bought one of these years ago!!! This is the most fun I've had with revolvers since I started.
One of the things some people complain about the Ruger Blackhawks is the cylinder doesn't "click" right into place for ejecting and there is no going backwards with the stock gun.
it can be a pain in .357, less so in .44 & .45, but its not like the gun is considered first line combat equipment, so I'm fine with it being a bit slower.
There is a trick you can learn, that will help with ejecting the fired brass. Just learn where to put your thumb.
it varies slightly (different people) but there is a spot on the cylinder, either over the chamber, or in the flute, or inbetween, but there is a spot you can find and put your thumb there (when rotating the cylinder) so that, when your thumb hits the frame the chamber is lined up for ejection.
it can be a pain in .357, less so in .44 & .45, but its not like the gun is considered first line combat equipment, so I'm fine with it being a bit slower.
There is a trick you can learn, that will help with ejecting the fired brass. Just learn where to put your thumb.
it varies slightly (different people) but there is a spot on the cylinder, either over the chamber, or in the flute, or inbetween, but there is a spot you can find and put your thumb there (when rotating the cylinder) so that, when your thumb hits the frame the chamber is lined up for ejection.