35 Whelen
- Thread starter oldbear1950
- Start date
"It also had a resurgence a few years back in single shot rifles with exposed hammers, as states like MS and LA allowed it for primitive season deer hunting."
That's something that never made any sense to me.Back in the day when single shots ruled, especially for the heavier cartridges the was at least one falling block rifle available that I can think of and there may have been more that just weren't all that common. Think Sharpe's Borchart. Just because the Ruger #1 doesn't have an exposed hammer it's illegal to hunt with one during that "special" season. Frankly, that's total BS. I know if I lived in one of those states I'd be raising some serious unholy hell trying to get that changed.
Paul B.
That's something that never made any sense to me.Back in the day when single shots ruled, especially for the heavier cartridges the was at least one falling block rifle available that I can think of and there may have been more that just weren't all that common. Think Sharpe's Borchart. Just because the Ruger #1 doesn't have an exposed hammer it's illegal to hunt with one during that "special" season. Frankly, that's total BS. I know if I lived in one of those states I'd be raising some serious unholy hell trying to get that changed.
Paul B.
"It also had a resurgence a few years back in single shot rifles with exposed hammers, as states like MS and LA allowed it for primitive season deer hunting."
That's something that never made any sense to me.Back in the day when single shots ruled, especially for the heavier cartridges the was at least one falling block rifle available that I can think of and there may have been more that just weren't all that common. Think Sharpe's Borchart. Just because the Ruger #1 doesn't have an exposed hammer it's illegal to hunt with one during that "special" season. Frankly, that's total BS. I know if I lived in one of those states I'd be raising some serious unholy hell trying to get that changed.
Paul B.
Close to 20 years ago. If you think that's bad. All the primitive weapons seasons after Nov. 30th it's your choice on private lands. If a rifle is legal during regular gun season you can use it in primitive weapons season, that includes your AR with 30 round mags.
stagpanther
New member
I got one sorta like that--I was bow hunting once out of a portable ground blind (i'll never do that again) which I set up facing a stream with known deer paths. The shooting portal was facing into the wind and there was a berm behind me about the same height as the top of the shelter on the downwind side directly behind me. I thought it was a great spot--and it was--except when I heard the crunch crunch in the leaves it was coming from behind me, all I could see through the narrow view slits was a set of hooves maybe two feet away. I tried moving as slowly as I could to see if I could exit--but he was gone--I think he was contemplating pissing on the shelter maybe.
Game rules are exactly that, GAME rules. Sport hunting times, places and allowable equipment are created by State Fish & Game depts for exactly that, a sporting game. What makes sense or doesn't is up to the Game dept, and you can have input. Doesn't mean they'll change anything right away, because its about what they consider best for the game animals, and the majority of hunters not about what makes things easy for you or I.
True and oftentimes the rules don't make sense. The reason MS has loosened up it's primitive weapons rules is we have 1.75 million deer. Most areas in the state are overpopulated. Game laws are much more relaxed than when I was a teenager and we didn't have enough deer. I can remember when you had to have tags and it was only one or maybe two bucks a year and there was only one day a year when you could take a doe. Inlines didn't exist and no scopes were allowed on muzzleloaders. Crossbows were only legal for the disabled. Now we can take three bucks and five does. No tags and no checkpoints. Kill a deer, take it home and butcher it. Nobody is going to know how many deer you kill.
"Game rules are exactly that, GAME rules. Sport hunting times, places and allowable equipment are created by State Fish & Game depts for exactly that, a sporting game. What makes sense or doesn't is up to the Game dept, and you can have input. Doesn't mean they'll change anything right away, because its about what they consider best for the game animals, and the majority of hunters not about what makes things easy for you or I."
I can agree with you for the most part but do so when they discriminate against one style of rifle because it do not have an external hammer. A single shot rifle in just that. One shell in the chamber and one has to reach for a source of another round and chamber it to fire another shot. It take just about the same amount of time depending on ones dexterity to reload a Browning B78 or the Ruger Number One. I have both style rifles and I can load them rather quickly and see no noticeable difference in the speed of reloading for another shot. In fact, on a good day I can chamber another round about as fast as the average hunter can using a bolt action should I need to do so. I just fail to see their logic.
Paul B.
I can agree with you for the most part but do so when they discriminate against one style of rifle because it do not have an external hammer. A single shot rifle in just that. One shell in the chamber and one has to reach for a source of another round and chamber it to fire another shot. It take just about the same amount of time depending on ones dexterity to reload a Browning B78 or the Ruger Number One. I have both style rifles and I can load them rather quickly and see no noticeable difference in the speed of reloading for another shot. In fact, on a good day I can chamber another round about as fast as the average hunter can using a bolt action should I need to do so. I just fail to see their logic.
Paul B.
"I have 35 Whelen AI build on Rem action with 23" Kreiger barrel @ total 9.4 lbs. If I decide to take it for elk, I'll shoot 225gr AB."
You might want to try thr 225 gr. Barnes TSX. That bullet has smacked down six elk so far, each a one shot kill. The TTSX may work as well or maybe better but I haven't tried then. I would imagine the Accubond would work as well but the time I tried the 225 gr. AB none of my .35 Whelens liked the bullet.
Paul B.
You might want to try thr 225 gr. Barnes TSX. That bullet has smacked down six elk so far, each a one shot kill. The TTSX may work as well or maybe better but I haven't tried then. I would imagine the Accubond would work as well but the time I tried the 225 gr. AB none of my .35 Whelens liked the bullet.
Paul B.
jetinteriorguy
New member
I’m just taking a wild guess, but possibly the rule for an external hammer is a safety issue? The unexposed rifle would depend on a manual safety which may accidentally get disengaged unknowingly creating a dangerous situation, where an external hammer needs to be manually cocked which may be construed as being safer. Of course carelessness or user error can defeat either of these arguments.
MarkCO said:
While the Barnes X and possibly the TSX bullets might have required a 2200 fps velocity to provide reliable expansion. I'd say your off on what they require currently in the TTSX and LRX lineups. Here is what Barnes has to say about some commonly used .308 bullets.
So the best way to find out what kind of wiggle room you have is to contact Barnes directly. However, I'll agree the more velocity the better as a general rule with all mono metal bullets.
"Originally Posted by MarkCO
The only issue with the TSX and TTSX is they NEED velocity to be over about 2200 fps to expand. That is, therefore limiting them in range."
I have taken elk as distances from about 75 yards (twice) to 350 yards as laser measured by my guide. Cartridge is the .35 Whelen, 225 gr. TSX ay 27710 FPS MV. Trajectory is about the as a 30-06 with 180 gr. spitzer flat base bullet.
Paul B.
The only issue with the TSX and TTSX is they NEED velocity to be over about 2200 fps to expand. That is, therefore limiting them in range."
I have taken elk as distances from about 75 yards (twice) to 350 yards as laser measured by my guide. Cartridge is the .35 Whelen, 225 gr. TSX ay 27710 FPS MV. Trajectory is about the as a 30-06 with 180 gr. spitzer flat base bullet.
Paul B.
It's the spirit of the game. I understand that. What I don't understand is why they even bother with a primitive weapons season when they only use it for public lands and the first primitive weapons season on private lands.
Good placement, or fast enough.
I put a good shot on an Elk at 405y, penciled straight through, unlucky to hit no bone on the way in. Laid down, but was not dead. When I got to about 50 yards, it got up and I anchored it with very close to the same shot, just a little higher. Two Very different internal ballistic profiles. My call to Barnes was enlightening, and when I stopped using them on Elk.
I did call Barnes, and the .33 caliber bullets just need more, and that was confirmed to me. I still use them in the .22 to .284 calibers, and they work great and don't need to be going as fast.
Jack O'Conner
New member
I bought a slightly used Winchester model 670 and had it re-barreled to 9.3 X 62 for an elk hunt is Wyoming. A medium sized 5 X 5 bull was downed with two shots at a distance of about 200 yards. I'm certain that a 35 Whelen would be just as effective. - Jack