327 Magnum questions

[CraigC]

The higher numbers listed (federal 100 gr. 1500 fps, Speer 115gr. 1380 fps) are from longer pressure test barrels which make a big difference.

In custom guns, the velocities have been reported at 1650fps for the 100gr American Eagle load, 1600fps for the 85gr load and 1580fps for the 115gr Gold Dot load. Not pressure barrels. Those numbers can be improved upon through handloading.

Similar performance can easily be achieved with the .32-20 in strong guns like the SAA or custom Old Model Blackhawks with significantly shorter case life and a significantly heavier sixgun than a long cylinder Single Six. The .32-20 offers a slight advantage in velocity but it doesn't fit in a Single Six without a custom, oversized five shot cylinder. Something that adds greatly to the gunsmith's tab.

 

[laytonj1]

In custom guns, the velocities have been reported at 1650fps for the 100gr American Eagle load, 1600fps for the 85gr load and 1580fps for the 115gr Gold Dot load. Not pressure barrels. Those numbers can be improved upon through handloading.

No doubt. However, the discussion was about velocities from a 3" ruger. I would be willing to bet that Federal's published 327 data is from a test barrel, longer than 3".
Speer's site claims their 327 data is from a 4" test barrel.
Although, in the long run it may not matter. Call it negative, but Rugers luck with new caliber introductions ain't been the best.


Jim

 

[Sarvisian]

It's not a Ruger cartridge, it's a Federal. Ruger was simply the first one to chamber it, Charter Arms also offers the chambering and now it looks like Taurus and Smith and Wesson will produce them. The Shot show looks to show several new .327's this year. The more guns made and the more ammo sold, the cheaper the ammo will be to buy and the sooner cases will become available to reloaders.

I'm enjoying the heck out of mine and wish you folks would give it a try too.

 

[laytonj1]

It's not a Ruger cartridge, it's a Federal. Ruger was simply the first one to chamber it

True. But it's not like Federal just up and decided to make a new cartridge and then see what would happen with it. Ruger and Federal worked together in a joint effort to bring out both gun and ammo.

Jim

 

[BillCA]

Layton,

The higher numbers listed (federal 100 gr. 1500 fps, Speer 115gr. 1380 fps) are from longer pressure test barrels which make a big difference.

You might think so, but I'm doubting it. Let's look at a few relevant points. First and foremost is that Federal did not specify the barrel length for the velocities published for any cartridge on their site (none I've looked at anyhow).

Second... published data for the 100g and 85g out of 3" Ruger are 1400 fps and 1330 fps. Their website shows 1500 and 1400 fps respectively. A 70-100 fps jump is not exactly indicative of a long unvented test barrel, but more like being fired from a 4" revolver. This observation is based on the differences observed between the old .357 Magnum published specs (circa 1977) and chronographed shots fired from 4" and 6" guns. In the case of the .357, the velocity difference was closer to 180fps to 200 fps between a revolver and the 7-inch test barrel.

Speer's LE-ATK site lists the 115 GDHP at 1380 fps from a 4" barrel while the previously published 3-inch barrel specs show it at 1330 fps. The 50fps difference is about right for an inch of difference and certainly not an unvented test barrel. Even their website claims velocities are to "the nearest 10 fps".

I suspect this is really a moot point. Many people will opt for a 2-inch or 2.5-inch S&W or other revolver chambered for the round. Some will opt for a 4-inch wheelgun for hunting or CASS type shooting. Still others will badger Ruger for a 6-7.5" Single Action with much more potential.

I think the chart does the cartridge justice. It shows that it fills a niche between .38/.38+P and .357 Magnum nicely. Plus encompasses the same performance envelope as 9mm and .40 S&W autos. That's quite a resume.

I'm hopeful that other companies will offer slick packages for the .327 that cater to different segments. Certainly it was designed with the SD/CCW market in mind, but that should not stop Ruger and others from producing some nifty "game getters" with longer barrels. And this round is begging for someone (Hello, Marlin?) to chamber a lever or pump rifle for it. A 16-18 inch lever rifle in .327 could be a fantastic gun for destroying varmints around a farm or ranch.

 

[PWK]

This review seems pretty thorough and addresses many of the issues raised in this thread:
http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-SP101-327.htm

 

[HoraceHogsnort]

Harry Anderson looks like one of them pudgy kids that always got picked on in school.

 

[CraigC]

But it's not like Federal just up and decided to make a new cartridge and then see what would happen with it. Ruger and Federal worked together in a joint effort to bring out both gun and ammo.

You could say that about a great many cartridge developments, it does not change the fact that it is the .327 "Federal" magnum, not Ruger. Just as it is the .357 and .44 "Remington" magnums, not S&W. Sometimes ammunition manufacturers take the lead on cartridge development, like the .327, .17HMR, etc. Sometimes it's the firearms manufacturers such as the .480Ruger, .375Ruger, .32H&R, etc.

What point are you trying to make anyway? Somehow that because you think it 'should' carry the Ruger name that it is doomed to failure? Maybe that somehow is because you perceive the .480 to be a failure? Is the market always just? Hell no! If it were, the .307WCF would've been a big hit years ago and there never would've been a .308Marlin Express. But no, the market is fickle, largely because of shooters like yourself who don't "need" another new cartridge, regardless of what it is, what it can do, or what gap it fills. Shooters who arbitrarily dismiss the arguments of folks like myself, gak and BillCA. Not because the cartridge is not viable, because of the attitudes of shooters. I have to wonder if the much-beloved .357 was greeted with such resentment???

For those crying about the name, because it uses .312" bullets and not .327's, get over yourself. It has been that way since the beginning. It's a hell of a lot closer to a .32 than .429 is to being a .44.

 

[Hammer It]

Harry Anderson looks like one of them pudgy kids that always got picked on in school.

Hello Horacehogsnort
I bet he did not take much Guff from anyone. I can't Imagine being a Cop Back then carrying a .32 S&W Long cartridge revolver for protection during the Mobsters Prime time span. He also was not Privey to doing hard work as he died at 56 Years old of a masive heart attack..Hammer It

 

[kgpcr]

.327 and power house do not belong in the same sentence!! Are we talking a jumbo shrimp here? I see no need for it. My .357 snub with 7 shots is fine for pocket carry and i know that will get the job done.

 

[Sarvisian]

So enjoy your .357! I enjoy mine (several) as well, why does that mean we can't enjoy our .32's? Give it a rest, the .44 blows away your .357 and the .454, .460 & .500 blow away the .44's. What point does it make? .22's still outsell every other round out there.

Nobody is trying to unseat any other cartridge, just adding to the fun.

 

[rogertc1]

The .327 is a good round for someone who can't take much recoil or a girl. Charter Arms has one out..

 

[BillCA]

.327 and power house do not belong in the same sentence!! Are we talking a jumbo shrimp here? I see no need for it. My .357 snub with 7 shots is fine for pocket carry and i know that will get the job done.

Why do people insist that anything in .32 caliber is wimpy and "for girls"? The .32 S&W Long is certainly not impressive as a defensive round. The .32 H&R Magnum increases the performance considerably, but only manages to get into 38 Special territory. The .327 Magnum almost doubles the velocity which means quadrupling the energy.

For the thinking impaired, we can display a comparison chart.

This shows that the .327 Federal Magnum carries the same energy as the .40 S&W round. That is more energy than the .38 Special +P or even the 9mm Luger. Pretty impressive for a round you can stuff into a J-Frame.

Thus.. if your .357 will get the job done, there's a very good chance that the .327 with a 115g Gold Dot or 100g JSP that produce up to 500 ft-lbs will also "get the job done".

If you're carrying a 7-shot .357 Magnum, you're either carrying an L-frame S&W or a Taurus that's slightly larger than a K-Frame. And in a snubby you won't be getting the 585 ft-lbs from a 125g JHP. More likely, you'll get about 470 ft-lbs from the shorter barrel. And you're carrying a big, bulky wheelgun as compared to the J-Frame.

The .327 is a good round for someone who can't take much recoil or a girl. Charter Arms has one out..

Ignoring the obvious macho-chauvinist reference to women, there certainly are a lot of people who can't take much recoil for legitimate reasons.

• The elderly with less physical strength - folks 70+ years.
• The disabled.
• People fighting serious illnesses like cancer, leukemia, etc.
• Victims of carpal tunnel syndrome.
• Accident victims with reconstructed hands, wrists or forearms.
• People of small stature/size: Small men, some teens, certain ethnic groups.

From what I'm hearing, the .327 Fed Magnum recoils approximately like that of a .38 Special or maybe a .38 +P in the 3-inch Ruger SP-101. If one can handle the .38 with it's barely adequate 280 ft-lbs, one can handle the same gun in .327 Mag delivering 500 ft-lbs. Why carry a five-shot .357 that doesn't provide a significant improvement in power? Even a six-shot is evenly matched.

Where's the downside here? What am I missing that makes certain people turn up their noses and wave their hands like you mentioned a .25 ACP? That is, other than failing to use the grey matter to analyze the information?

 

[CraigC]

Ya know, the excuses get wilder and wilder yet the facts still go ignored. For all you naysayers who think it will go away because of a lack of factory guns, USFA is gearing up to produce a mid-frame single action aimed directly at the .327 cartridge. As well as a large frame for the traditional magnums.

 

[publius]

If someone will offer a good 4-6" revolver w/adjustable sights I'll buy one. The adjustable sights are a dealbreaker for me, if they are not offered I don't want one. I guess it's a pretty good defense round but I think it's real potential is for casual plinking and small game. How bout breaking out the old Security-Six machinery, (while it's out why not make a few .357's too).

 

[BillCA]

Publis, I hear you and agree. The Security Six series was a nicely done platform. A six or seven-shooter .327 would be way cool here and in something like the Single Six for cowpokes.

S&W is bringing out the J-Frame 632 with adjustable sights as a small 3" gun for DGU and as a hard hitting kit gun. I'd love to see them also offer a .327 in something akin to the old Model 12 Airweight (Scanidum?) M&P, K-frame with steel cylinder & 4-inch barrel. This would be available in a 4-inch Fixed sight model which would be a definitive Home Defense revolver that'd compliment a 5-inch and/or 6-inch Model 16 with adjustable sights.

 

[Hammer It]

S&W is bringing out the J-Frame 632 with adjustable sights as a small 3" gun for DGU

Hello Bill
I would like to see that, But doubt they will venture down that road again after the soft sales on the 631 Kit Guns made in the late 1980's I had a 631 4" Kit gun and it's accuracy was not good at all. I First thought it may have been me, so put together a ton of different hand-loads and still accuracy suffered. I then received a Magazine article from a friend where John Taffin ran a Test on the 4" Model 631 and he too had accuracy issues from it. I can say that my 2" model 631 was a Tack driver and this always amazed me that a 4" Barrel revolver in the same caliber never came close to the accuracy of my Snub model. later I was lucky to come across the Model 16-4 .32 H&R magnum in a K-Frame and that revolver is the Hot ticket for the .32 H&R Magnum round but again soft sales forced S&W to Drop it from their Line up. S&W is all about Making Money and if a Caliber or new released Model revolver does not move well, it get's left in the dust. I think they Only made a little over 5000 of them in the model 631-J-Frame and that would include the 4" Kit Gun along with the 2" Snub and the 2" lady Smith model along with around the same production figures on the K-Frame model 16-4. I feel after the sales slumped in all the frames they made the .32 H&R Magnum round, They would be reluctant to bring out another .32 Magnum being the New .327 Magnum. I hope they are seeing the strong Demand Buyers are showing for this New Round in a Ruger handgun as Perhaps this will coax them to Build one. I would sooner think if S&W ever came out with this .32 caliber in their revolver's again it would be in a target form K-Frame model due to the potency of the load, and Longer case dimension it may be difficult to build it in a six shot-J-frame cylinder due to the shorter cylinder window they have. I do know if they ever come out with in a target form K-Frame I will own one to add it to the Other .32 H&R magnum caliber hand guns I have now and it would round out the group well with my 6" K-32 Pre-16 masterpiece, along with my 6" Model 16-4 chambered in .32 H&R Magnum that I have now, adding another K-Frame S&W in the Hot .327 Magnum Caliber with a 6" Barrel would in my Eyes complete the .32 Caliber Masterpiece series... Hammer It



The K-32 Masterpiece Circa 1951

The K-32 Magnum Masterpiece Model 16-4 Circa 1990

 

[BillCA]

Hammer,

Don't go off "half-cocked" quite yet. This is from Lipsey's website.

Smith and Wesson 632 Power Port 327 Federal Magnum
170329 Smith and Wesson 632 Power Port 327 Federal Magnum
632CC 327FED 3" BLACK PORTED 170329 CARRY COMP / PRO SERIES MSRP $980.00

I don't see the need to port a steel framed .327 Mag, but maybe S&W thinks that adds something. If people buy it, I'd look for them to resurrect the Model 16 next.

I'd love to do some testing with the .327 to see how it penetrates on things other than tissue. I'm thinking that with the light bullet it might be a very good home defense gun with a much reduced risk of blowing through four walls of the house or apartment. If true, a nice 4" fixed sight model would be awesome.

 

[Hammer It]

Hammer,

Don't go off "half-cocked" quite yet

Hello B ill
A Fixed sighted-J-Frame for $1000.00 ? I bet that will collect Dust on the stocking shelfs. Other than a Ported barrel I can't see that much different to make up the $500.00 More asking price than they got for the 431 PD that was dropped due to lack of sales. I Guess they feel the steel frame will suck up recoil better. I can see a K-Frame target sighted model being offered at a Grand but not a fixed sighted-J-Frame. I Guess I will hold out till I see it in a K-Frame Target Model, or Buy the 632 Rejects that may not sell in Three years for Half price...Hammer It

 

[funon1]

It is far from dead or useless

And I see this is a caliber(s) that bring out passion in people. I can attest to the .32s mystical qualities. Okay, maybe other calibers can do what the .32(s) do, but very few do so many things so well. Of course, any discussion of the .327 really must include it's predecessors, especially the .32 H&R Mag. Like many shooters I was unfamiliar with the .32 until I happened upon a slightly used K-.32 for a song. The gun was perfect for fun or defense. It had just enough power to carry and enough velocity to be flat shooting and fun. Before I knew it, I had discovered the joys of the older .32s. Power/recoil ranged from .22 Mag-like to .38 Special-like. I was hooked.

Sure the .22s can plink, but they lack stopping power, and the .357 has stopping power, but is just a wee bit much for a day of plinking with the kids. The one thing the older .32s lacked was real magnum-type punch for those times when it was really wanted or needed. With the introduction of the .327 the last base is truly covered. Now there are plenty of bullets and cases along with enough variety of loaded ammunition that the .32 is truly an all-around, do-it-all caliber.

The Rugers are neat little guns, but what I really want is a k-frame .327. I really love the .32s and think that if there is a perfect all-around handgun caliber, this very well could be it. Ah, now I gotta go shooting. Where did I put those earplugs...well, see what y'all have done. Now I gotta go enjoy the .32s.

If you haven't tried em, I urge you to do so. As another pointed out, they may not replace anything, but they sure make one heckuva nice addition to the stable.

Funon1