Mike Irwin
Staff
For the most part the calibers are still with us...
The cartridges, on the other hand... not so much.
The cartridges, on the other hand... not so much.
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300 savage why no love?
- Thread starter 458winshooter
- Start date
bamaranger
New member
performance
There's no doubt that the performance level of the .300 Savage is more than adequate for whitetails. I've got an '06 carbine that is a vicious kicker and terribly noisy with full power '06 loads. I load it to .300 Savage levels ( 180@ 2450) and it kills just fine at woods ranges.
There's no doubt that the performance level of the .300 Savage is more than adequate for whitetails. I've got an '06 carbine that is a vicious kicker and terribly noisy with full power '06 loads. I load it to .300 Savage levels ( 180@ 2450) and it kills just fine at woods ranges.
My Uncle, now 89 and not doing well, just handed off his guns for me to hold onto until his Grandson moves out of California and into a gun freindly State in the future. May be a few decades as he works in the film industry.
Uncle's favorite gun is a well worn Remington 760 Gamemaster pump from the 50's, wearing a 4X Weaver. He shot LOTS of deer with it over the years, he still swears by it now, even as his mind is fading. It's a .300 Savage.
If he can recall where he put the clips, I may hunt with it this fall. Several boxes of vintage ammo (Remington Kleanbore snd Winchester Super X), came with the rifle, along with a TON of empty brass. In my family, ammo was / is a luxury; you buy a box of ammo or two, sight in your rifle and then thereafter, 1 shot equals one deer.
Uncle's favorite gun is a well worn Remington 760 Gamemaster pump from the 50's, wearing a 4X Weaver. He shot LOTS of deer with it over the years, he still swears by it now, even as his mind is fading. It's a .300 Savage.
If he can recall where he put the clips, I may hunt with it this fall. Several boxes of vintage ammo (Remington Kleanbore snd Winchester Super X), came with the rifle, along with a TON of empty brass. In my family, ammo was / is a luxury; you buy a box of ammo or two, sight in your rifle and then thereafter, 1 shot equals one deer.
Last edited:
handlerer2
New member
15 thousand PSI less?
Ok, I'm having a little difficulty wrapping my head around how the 300 Savage can produce ballistics in the same ballpark as the 308Win at 15k PSI less. Wouldn't that be a good thing?
I have been reading about the Savage cartridges since I took up reloading after Deros in 1975. I'm college edified and like to think that I can figure on most subjects, the more I figure on this, the more questions I have.
How does it produce nearly equivalent velocities at significantly lower pressure? Is it the place in the pressure curve where the pressure occurs? If the pressure spike is early, perhaps it's defeating all the inertia involved and adding early momentum, allowing for this.
Maybe someone with a newer issue brain cell can explain this, or does it take an engineer to understand and explain?
Ok, I'm having a little difficulty wrapping my head around how the 300 Savage can produce ballistics in the same ballpark as the 308Win at 15k PSI less. Wouldn't that be a good thing?
I have been reading about the Savage cartridges since I took up reloading after Deros in 1975. I'm college edified and like to think that I can figure on most subjects, the more I figure on this, the more questions I have.
How does it produce nearly equivalent velocities at significantly lower pressure? Is it the place in the pressure curve where the pressure occurs? If the pressure spike is early, perhaps it's defeating all the inertia involved and adding early momentum, allowing for this.
Maybe someone with a newer issue brain cell can explain this, or does it take an engineer to understand and explain?
How does it produce nearly equivalent velocities at significantly lower pressure?
I don't really have a good answer, but I think some of your confusion is coming from using a specific standard number and general performance numbers and expecting perfect matches.
What is "about the same" or "nearly equivalent"?? specifically??
Is it within 50fps? 100fpr? 200? because that is also a trap.
The trap part is the performance of the individual rifles used in testing. Pick one set and you get "nearly equivalent" swap one of the rifles and you could change to "almost exactly the same" or it might change to "not even close", because every rifle and ammo combination while similar, has the potential to be significantly different then the expected average.
Most things fall in the middle of the bell curve, but there are always things at each end. I've got a Hornday book showing the same speed (2800fps) with the same bullet (150gr) using the same powder (IMR 4064) in BOTH .300 Savage and .308 Win. THe only differences are the Savage had a 24" barrel and used 44.0gr (max) and the .308 used a 22" barrel and 44.9gr (max) of the same powder to get the same speed with the same bullet.
A different pair of rifles would most likely show different numbers. GENERAL similarity would remain the same, but exact specific data would be different. Perhaps a little, perhaps a lot, every example can be different in either direction.
44 AMP said:What is "about the same" or "nearly equivalent"?? specifically??
Is it within 50fps? 100fpr? 200? because that is also a trap.
The .300 Savage case holds about 4 grains less of H20 (42 vs. 46) in its case compared to the .308 Win. This usually equates to a 4-6 fewer grains of powder in the .300 Savage and around 200 FPS difference in velocites on paper with same bullet, powder, and primer and all other things being equal. What I get in the real world is a little closer to the same velocites.
HOWEVER! My two rifles in .300 Savage have 22" and 24" barrels, my .308 has a 20" barrel and my new .308 will have an 18" barrel. So 4 grains more powder is roughly a 10% larger powder charge, and why the .308 operates at higher pressures. And while 200 FPS doesn't seem like alot of extra velocity, it adds up when you start talking about targets beyond normal hunting ranges of the average whitetail hunter.
[How does it produce nearly equivalent velocities at significantly lower pressure?/QUOTE]
I'm not going to look up specifics,but as a general rule,folks often get led astray on pressure numbers due to the different processes of measurement.
I suspect the pressure data typical of the 300 Savage would be Copper Units of Pressure (cup) Its an older technology that was the standard a few decades ago. As newer tech had not yet emerged,folks often incorrectly called the cup figure psi.
Its not unusual to see 308 or 7.62 NATO pressure in psi,measured by piezo technology (or other)
PSI does not equal CUP. I don't know the exact numbers,but just as an inaccurate example, 50 k CUP might equal 60k psi. Pressure would be the same,its a different scale of measurement.
While a 60k psi load might be a safe,SAAMI load, 60k CUP would be much higher actual pressure,and probably dangerous.
That said,,the .308 does operate at higher pressure than the 300 Savage.
Make the comparison using cartridge data in
https://saami.org/wp-content/upload...99.4-CFR-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf
https://saami.org/wp-content/upload...99.4-CFR-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf