.300 Magnum Usefullness?

[roy reali]

re:JohnO

I sell guns at one of the larger retail stores. Can't tell you how many people want a "flat" shooting caliber. Yet, they have never shot past 100 yds, on a bench.

Years ago I was talking to an Elk guide/outfitter. He was a most pleasant gentleman. I was asking him what he thought the ultimate Elk cartridge is. Guess what he answered, .30-06. I asked hum about the magnums.

He said when a client shows up with a magnum he gets nervous. He has seen more then one hunter with a magnum that developed a flinch and barely even fired his weapon due to its blast and recoil. He said that when a fellow shoes up with '06, he has practiced with it. He is not afraid of his gun and therefore is likley to actually hit an elk.

I have been to rifle ranges the week before opening day. I have seen the shooter with his brand new magnum rifle. I have seen those guys with such a bad flinch that the only reason bullet is even hitting the backstop because it is wide and tall.

Again, I am not saying magnums are useless. I am not saying they are ineffective. In fact, I'll admit they are more effective then nonmagnum rounds. But that improvement is smaller then many think.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Not sure how anybody knows what other people think.

What would make you happy? 500 FPS increase?

If the velocity increase is less than what many people think would it not follow that the recoil increase is less than what many people think?

Could you not say the same thing about 308 Win up to 30-06? 30-30 Win up to 308 Win? 30 carbine up to 30-30? 300 Win up to 30-378 ? ad nauseum.

Shoot what you can shoot.

If a man can't figure out in short order whether the recoil of any rifle bothers him then I don't have any confidence that he knows enough about what he is doing to shoot anything well.

Personally, I don't care for 300 Magnums. But, if somebody does it suits me.

 

[roy reali]

re:zerojunk

If the velocity increase is less than what many people think would it not follow that the recoil increase is less than what many people think?

The increased amount of powder in a larger cartridge also contributes to increased recoil. I know there is a formula for this, I just don't know it off hand.

 

[taylorce1]

Calculate Recoil Energy by using the formula E=1/2 MV Squared.

 

[roy reali]

re:taylorforce1

In other words, you simply square the velocity of recoil, which is easily calculated when we know the weight of the bullet and powder charge and its velocity when exiting from the muzzle.

This is a quote from the above referenced website. I knew that the powder charge was involved in the calculation. Thanks for the reference.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Part of it is simply equal and opposite force to move a projectile. The other part is the push from the expanding gases. Regardless, to move an equal weight bullet a couple hundred more feet per second does not amount to that much. It has always been curious to me that men will shoot 3 1/2 00 Buck at deer and not think anything about it and then all of a sudden any rifle cartridge that has magnum attached to the name is supposed to be some kind of monster. Maybe if they had just left the magnum name off everybody would have something else to worry about.

 

[roy reali]

re:zerojunk

I believe there is also recoil velocity. Again, maybe someone smarter then me can post a link to that. But from what I understand, the faster the projectile the faster, or sharper the recoil.

I have little single shot rifle in .45-70. It does kick when you crank up the loads. But it feels more like a push. A friend has a similar rifle chambered in .30-30 Winchester. I swear his gun kicks more, at least it feels like it does.

Another factor involved in "felt" recoil is muzzle blast. Louder guns seem like they kick more. The extra powder in a magnum does increase its decible level. So I guess part of the recoil factor is mental.

Again, I am going to type it slowly and largely this time;

I don't think that 300 magnum rifles are useless. I don't think they are ineffective. I think their effectiveness is a bit over exaggerated.

 

[ZeroJunk]

I didn't use a formula, I just shot the things. Hunted with a 300 Weatherby a couple of years. Shot some of my best groups ever with it. It is about 400 FPS faster than a 30/06 and you definitely notice it when you pull the trigger. Also, hunted with a 300 Win a couple of years. I have also shot the 308 Norma and 300 RUM. The 308 Norma and 300 Win are not so bad. Any are OK to shoot off the bench. But, I'm right handed and have occassionally needed to shoot a deer left handed. I want no part of the Weatherby or RUM left handed, or prone for that matter. Another man might handle that quite easily.

They are all useful for their intended purpose, shooting quite flat and blowing a hole in something on the other end.

I can't disagree with what others think they will do or comment about it's exaggeration since I have no idea what others think they will do.

 

[BIG P]

I built My 300WM for power lines,cutovers,& beanfields.Ive owned it for over
20 years. I practice from 500 to 1000yrds.have took game outside 750yds.
I use range finders & wind guage & shoot of sandbags.I hunt alot of places
other guys wouldnt scout do to no cover.I really think the 300mag works really well for that purpose the rifle has a HART custom heavy barrel & a sniper stock its a heavy rig low recoil with 180gr.bullets. So yes 300MAG are
very useful MY freezer is full.If you hand load it dont cost that much to hunt
all season with it.

 

[JohnO]

Roy, I don't think mags are useless either. Nothing wrong with a good ole 300 win mag, as long as you can shoot it well.

Another example: My range (private) allows the public to sight their rifles in over the weekend. It opens to the public. I usually do my "work party" for renewal credit during this time. I see people every year with their big mags shooting 4" groups, or more, over a bench, at 100 yds.

One guy this year was having a hell of a time getting his gun to shoot at 200 yds. Then, he told us he use to shoot a 30-06, but this year decided to get a Rem 300 LA Ultra Mag and said he was having a tough time with it. Why he made this change I dont' know. Probably a buddy of his telling him he needed more gun and the Rem Ultra Mag was the ultimate Elk gun. Now he has a new gun he can't shoot.

I've considered picking up a 300 Win Mag but with all the great bullet designs given to us today my 30-06 continues to push forward.

 

[lt dan]

when a foreign hunter(especially American), asks me what caliber to bring to Africa for a plains game hunt, i always say you don't need more than a 30-06.

when comparing 30-06 with a 300mag then there is truly little difference in drop and the so called knock down power.

but here is the thing a 30-06 can do what a 300 do with with less powder less recoil and less noise. but then again my 308 can do what the 30-06 does with less of all.

as the 30-06 owners believe their rifle is the true balance and the 300's are not "necessarily" so the 308 believers think that the 30-06 are wasting energy and recoil for no real additional benefit.


i use a 300H&H magnum and a 308 for most of my hunting and range needs. i am often amazed at the 308's performance.

 

[langenc]

Most of those 200-250 yard shots if ever measured would be 110 to 140 yards.

 

[JohnO]

That's funny, but your probably right.

 

[sc outdoorsman]

I work with 2 guys who both use .300 mags as their primary deer rifle. They do not hunt together and both are good shots. They both have other rifles available but choose the mags because they have confidence in it and both say that it is the most accurate rifle they own. I think as far as that goes they are right. If you take the the rifle you are most comfortable with, the one you are surest of when you pull the trigger, then it is a useful weapon. Both say it is probably overkill on whitetail, but I can't argue with their thinking.

 

[Cowboy_mo]

To echo what others have said, when I went to S. Africa to hunt plains game I rented a rifle from the outfitter because it was easier and cheaper than shipping one of mine. They provided me with a .30-06 that proved more than enough for the game we took. They also told me that a .375 H & H is required when hunting dangerous game.

The only time I ever fired a .300 weatherby mag, I got the only 'scope bite' I ever had. When I told that story to my guide in SA, he chuckled a bit and related a story of a previous client. The client brought and was using a .300 weatherby mag. After missing 4 animals, the guide strongly suggested and the hunter agreed to switch to a .30-06 and then proceeded to make every shot after that.

I have no doubt the big magnums have a place for those who can use them well. I also have no doubt that there are many people shooting them who shouldn't be.

 

[lt dan]

+1 cowboy mo. to many foreign hunters pitch up here thinking they need some sort of a cannon because of the so called tough African plains game.

i have always believed that when you go bigger than 30-06, the ability to handle what you shoot comes heavily into play.

 

[aaalaska]

My choice of the 300 WM was made after moving to Alaska, growing up in Pa I hunted with a 6mm , or a 30-30 for the thick stuff, those and the 22-250 for varmints were all I needed. After a to close encounter with a brown bear my first year, I decided a upgrade was in order, so I spent the next year shooting every caliber in every combo I could lay my hands on, the final choice a Ruger 77 in 300 WM,to me the recoil was no worse that the 30-06. The 338 and up just wasn't fun to shoot, and I love shooting. Do I need a Magnum , probably not ,but I am very comfortable with mine it does everything I've ask of it ,with bullets from 165 to well over 200 grs. And the extra little bit is reassuring when your standing in a track that sticks out on all sides of my boot.
Alex

 

[ZeroJunk]

After a to close encounter with a brown bear my first year,

That is something to think about even in MT. I have been close to a grizzly, and a friend was hunting with a guy that got beat up badly by a grizzly. That's one of the reasons I usually hunt with something a little bigger than what you need for elk.

 

[Quick Karl]

I have a new .30 caliber cartridge design that will satisfy all the magnum lovers that think they are going to make a 1000-yard shot at an Elk, off hand, from a half-sitting / half-standing position in a blizzard at -12-degrees, in the fog...

I've necked down a 50BMG case to accept a 300g 30 caliber hand made UVLD bullet with a BC of 1200... Has a MV of 5,200 FPS.

I'm going to call it the 30-50BMG Phallic which is sure to make-up for any shooter's "inadequate shooting performance" and "size-identity" questions. And each box of ammo will come with a custom made 10"x7" belt-buckle.

 

[myshoulderissore]

I have a new .30 caliber cartridge design that will satisfy all the magnum lovers that think they are going to make a 1000-yard shot at an Elk, off hand, from a half-sitting / half-standing position in a blizzard at -12-degrees, in the fog...

I've necked down a 50BMG case to accept a 300g 30 caliber hand made UVLD bullet with a BC of 1200... Has a MV of 5,200 FPS.

I'm going to call it the 30-50BMG Phallic which is sure to make-up for any shooter's "inadequate shooting performance" and "size-identity" questions. And each box of ammo will come with a custom made 10"x7" belt-buckle.

I'll take 3, please. Seriously, though, that does sound like it could be a fun cartridge to shoot if it were ever made. Wouldn't use it for anything but blowing up watermelons personally, but man would it make some mist!