224 cal on deer...it worked in the 80's

[603Country]

Guy, it isn't the 60 grainers that are the issue. They will stabilize, as will the 63 gr Sierra SMP. The 60 gr Partition won't stabilize and the 65 gr Sierra GK won't work either. The 64 gr Nosler BSB is a stumpy little thing, similar to the 63 gr Sierra, so I hope it'll work, though I don't expect that it will - due to having checked it out on the various stabilization websites. But...we shall see.

 

[Jack O'Conner]

My daughter killed two mulies with Winchester ammo featuring the 64 grain bullet. 100% penetration and lots of damage to the chest organs!

Jack

 

[thallub]

i've killed a hundred or two wild hogs using the .223/5.56mm. Many of those kills have been bang flops. Most of those were killed using military FMJ ammo. None ever got away wounded.

Have also killed a couple dozen wild hogs using reloads and the excellent Barnes 53 grain Triple Shock bullet.

Hogs, even large hogs, are rather easily killed when shot just behind the crook of the front leg. One of the places i hunt requires the use of rimfire rifles or shotguns with small shot outside of deer season. i've killed lots of hogs there using a .22 magnum and 40 grain CCI total metal jacket ammo.

http://boarmasters.com/hog-anatomy-and-physiology/

http://www.texasboars.com/anatomy.html

 

[Jack O'Conner]

The Winchester 64 grain bullet is a big game bullet. It makes the .223 very effective within reasonable distances.

Jack

 

[Unlicensed Dremel]

thallub, what percentage of .22 magnum piggies are head shots vs. the vitals shot you describe? And what are the weight ranges? And have you tried anything else besides the CCI TMJ 40s for this? I bet you're speaking of Waurika.

 

[Brotherbadger]

I keep hearing people say that "shot placement" is everything, as if with larger cal rifles it is not. Shooting a large cal does not automatically guarantee a successful one shot kill while disregarding shot placement. When hunting any animal regardless of caliber, shot placement is the foremost consideration...

What is meant is that you have a larger margin for error with larger calibers. Obviously shot placement is always important in all hunting, it's just that much more important when using smaller rounds like a 223. You can get away with taking more questionable shots with a 30-06, than you can with a 223(obviously not recommended you do so with any round, but still).

 

[Barnacle Brad]

What is meant is that you have a larger margin for error with larger calibers.

I need an example...

 

[Buzzcook]

If I miss the target by .25" that is a miss with a .22 cal and a hit with a .30 cal.

 

[JD0x0]

I need an example...

Extreme example. Gut shot a deer with .223 rem. Chances are it's going to be wounded, as we all know, the gut is a bad place if to hit if you want a humane kill. OTOH, .50 BMG with expanding ammo, and equal shot placement, that deer is not too likely to walk away.

Obviously that's not an ideal example in real world hunting... Let's say you shoot a hog in the shoulder bone. It could possibly suck that .223 up like nothing happened. Whereas .300 win mag or other 'heavier calibers' would more likely punch through the bone and kill the animal.

Shot placement is always important, but a more powerful cartridge/caliber does open up your margin of error and allows you to make kills at more 'risky' angles, where you may not be able to set yourself up for the 'perfect shot' with a smaller caliber and get the job done. . Otherwise everyone would hunt elk with .22LR and headshots, since you could technically get a kill with .22 rimfire with the right placement.

A larger caliber/cartridge is not going to turn a complete miss into an ethical kill, but if your shot goes a little off target, because of factors like wind, shooter error, or the animal moving during the bullet's flight, it gives you a bigger margin of error and larger possibility that the shot will remain an ethical one, which puts the animal down quickly.

 

[Barnacle Brad]

If I miss the target by .25"

The target being what?

I guess the only chance 22-250 and .223 shooters have, is to continue making surgical shots and leave those risky angling lung shots to the guys with the 'big' guns.

 

[tahunua001]

If I miss the target by .25" that is a miss with a .22 cal and a hit with a .30 cal.

um... can you please get back to us after you look at 4th grade math again?
if you miss the target by .25" then the .22 cal(assuming miss is measured from center of bullet is .14 away from the intended target while the 30 cal is still .10 away from the target:still a miss.

the thing is that 30 cal creates much more hydrostatic shock and carries a lot more momentum, inertia, and kinetic energy with it, meaning that if a 22 cal hits a bone, the bone could deflect it, or the bullet could get lodged in the bone, or it could keep going but without the necessary energy to achieve maximum penetration all the way to vital organs. with a 30 caliber, it is not only likely to continue on it's original path but is also likely to take bits of bone with it acting as secondary projectiles and causing more damage.

with hydrostatic shock, even if no bones are present and the bullet narrowly misses it's intended target, the hydrostatic shock could cause capillaries, veins, and arteries to rupture causing massive internal bleeding where the 22 could just jiggle them around a bit and leave them intact, picture two earth quakes, one measuring 2 on the Richter scale and another measuring 7. one will decimate cities, the other just might shake the buildings a bit.

this is comparing 223 to 30-06 which I have enough experience with to say that this is a real world and likely difference in performance.... not like comparing a 22lr to a 50 BMG.

 

[Unlicensed Dremel]

And as always, I like to mention at this point, just for some perspective, the youtube vide that shows a small whitetail doe shot through the heart with a .50 BMG (no heart left at all), and still bolts top speed 90 yards across a field before dropping. I know the topic isn't "sure thing DRTs", but it's kinda related.

 

[Buzzcook]

um... can you please get back to us after you look at 4th grade math again?

Thank you for your kind reply.

 

[603Country]

My cousin shot a medium sized Doe in the heart lung area with his 50 cal (Amax bullet) and blew the deer in half. Neither half ran very far.

 

[reynolds357]

How dare you suggest using a .223 to kill deer. It is a well known fact that you need at least a .458 Win. Mag. and preferably a .460 WBY to take a Whitetail.

Seriously, the .220 Swift is just a monster in the first place. I love mine. You can push it insanely fast if you want. For deer, the Barnes X is the only bullet I would trust to stay together at SWIFT velocities.

 

[Art Eatman]

For a comparison example: I use the Sierra 85-grain HPBT in my .243. It is definitely a blow-up bullet. So, on Bambi, I have only made neck shots or cross-body heart/lung shots. Basically, DRT. But I won't take an angling shot on a going-away deer.

My '06? Sure, I will and have had quick kills with angling shots.

I pretty much feel the same way about using any centerfire hotshot .22 on a deer. I'd not take an angling shot, just on general principles.

 

[mete]

Semantics -- many do not understand the difference between 'possible' and 'appropriate ' !!

 

[reynolds357]

Mete, a .220 Swift pushing a Barnes X in the high 3000's is very appropriate for medium game at moderate distances. It is simply a death hammer. My favorite hunting load is a 90 grain Norma bonded in a .257 Weatherby. If you hit the deer somewhere between the neck and the guts, it goes down like a ton of bricks fell on it. For me, the .220 Swift has done the same thing with predictable regularity. Technically the 90 Norma bonded is a "Varmint" round in the .257 WBY. For practical purposes, the .257 WBY and .220 Swift are not very different.

 

[603Country]

Well...as mentioned earlier, I did shoot a number of deer with the 220 back in the 80's. PO Ackley even suggested that it was a great round for that purpose. But, fact is that it really isn't a great round for that purpose. It will do, if you use the right bullet and use it wisely, but that doesn't make it great. I'd use it again if I had to, or if I had the rifle at the right (or wrong) time during the season, but I have better deer caliber options. There are quite a number of folks, however, that don't have a better option. That would be the zillions of guys that bought an AR15 type rifle because it looked cool. That's probably the only rifle they have, and by golly they are going to hunt deer with it, since the zombies never showed up. And, like a guy I know, they have a sack of FMJ rounds and don't know diddly about other bullet options, so they'll hunt with what they have. And that, to me, is a shame. Worse, they most likely couldn't track a bleeding elephant through a snowdrift, so they'll wound and lose some deer. It's not you guys that I worry about, but the guys that don't get good advice on a forum like this. There's a lot of them out there. I know a few. I've invited a couple of them out to the ranch to shoot and talk and maybe they'll learn something. But in every case, they weren't here to learn. Thought they knew enough already. But they don't.

 

[reynolds357]

603C, for the record, the orig post stated ".220 Swift." There is a huge difference in 5.56 Nato and .220 Swift. I personally do not believe the 5.56 Nato is a good deer round, but the SWIFT is a hammer.