224 cal on deer...it worked in the 80's

[603Country]

For quite some time, I've thought (and stated) that 22 caliber bullets were just not enough for deer sized game. Still, I've bought several bullets to try out on big pigs, and if the bullet will work on the pigs, it'll work on deer. One of the newer bullets is that 64 gr Nosler BSB. In getting ready to load some of em up, I dug way back to the front of my loading book (earliest pages were dated in 1984, though I did some pistol reloading prior to that) to find what load I used for the 63 gr Sierra SMP. While looking around for that, I found the loading data for the old Nosler 60 gr Solid Base Boattail (for my 220 Swift, in the first barrel the rifle had). It grouped quite well, and I had also made notations on how well it worked on deer. Hmmm....guess I'd forgotten that, but am remembering it again now.

Back then I wasn't exactly hunting deer, but was hosting hunts on a corporate ranch and doing what I guess you'd call 'guiding'. The guests shot deer, and I was along to help them find deer. In the process I'd find lots of pigs and coyotes, so I needed a rifle and I loved that old 220 Swift. And every now and then I'd need to take a doe for the dinner table so we could feed all the guests, and I'd use the 220. And as I now remember, my bullet research back then led me to two bullets that were good on deer - the 63 gr Sierra and the 60 gr Nosler Solid Base Boattail. And there was a list of bullets that didn't work too well. I also now remember how upset I was when Nosler quit making that 60 gr SBB.

I think that the 64 gr Nosler Bonded Solid Base is going to be a good bullet for pigs (and deer) in my 223. If the recoil-shy wife ever decides to pig hunt like she says she will, I'll put that 223 in her hands.

 

[Art Eatman]

Thirty years ago and prior, most factory loads were quite suitable for varmints--but not for such as deer. But the majority of users were varmint hunters and thus the market determined the type of bullet. The original loading for the Swift was a 40-grain bullet at 4,140 ft/sec, and that's what was on the shelves.

IMO, it was the advent of the .223 Rem that pushed a growing number of bullet makers into the R&D which has given us a wide selection of bullets which will work quite adequately on most deer.

 

[tahunua001]

while I was in the navy I decided it would be cool to own an AR15 so I tol my brother that I was going to send him $2400 for some colt monstrosity that was recommended online(probably on this very forum) and he laughed and said to wait until I came home on leave and we'd talk about it. well when I came home on leave he let me shoot a DPMS Ar15 he picked up for uber cheap for 1/4 the price of the colt I wanted and it was so fun he said he'd build me one with anything I wanted. so while I was spending long nights on watch with nothing to do but surf the interweb and wait for something to break, I started piecing together parts and sending them to his house, each new part that arrived was followed by more and more complaints from him saying that the rifle would end up weighing 20 pounds and become virtually unusable. well about 3 weeks after I shipped the last part, I got an email with a picture attached.

all it said was, "I hate you, this thing is awesome"

a lot can still be said for a 223 with a decent bullet construction. I might play around with barnes TTSX 55 grainers next year. this year I'm playing with my most recent evil black rifle in 6.5 grendel.

 

[Brotherbadger]

Thirty years ago and prior, most factory loads were quite suitable for varmints--but not for such as deer. But the majority of users were varmint hunters and thus the market determined the type of bullet. The original loading for the Swift was a 40-grain bullet at 4,140 ft/sec, and that's what was on the shelves.

IMO, it was the advent of the .223 Rem that pushed a growing number of bullet makers into the R&D which has given us a wide selection of bullets which will work quite adequately on most deer.

Very true. Today there are a wide array of .223 rounds out there that are great for Deer. Obviously shot placement is key, but a quality .223 round designed for deer(read: not a varmint round) in the right place will drop a deer pretty easily.

 

[eastbank]

i have killed deer with a rem 722 in .222 rem and my brother killed them with a win 43 in .22 hornet,but the shots were all pretty close with no brush in the way with head or center neck shots. if you can pick your shots carefully i see no problem with useing a 223-22-250 or 220 swift with the right bullets. eastbank.

 

[Barnacle Brad]

Indeed! Here are two turbo goats taken with the Nosler 64gr BSB...

 

[603Country]

I no sooner put that post out there a couple days ago when I got a pm chastising me for suggesting that folks use 224 caliber rifles to shoot deer. The fact is that I most often suggest that they don't use 224 cal rifles for deer. That said, back in the 80's I often needed to shoot a doe for camp meat though my primary mission was varmint control. Hardly anything is better than the 220 for varmint control, so I carried that. The first time I was asked to take a doe by the ranch manager, I had absolutely the wrong bullet in the 220. Well...ya learn from your mistakes. Next, I loaded up some 63 gr Sierras and they worked great on deer and pigs at 100 yards or so. Then I tried the 60 gr Nosler SBBT and they worked great too.

What I told the guy that pm'd me was that half the world went out and got an M16 clone, shot paper with it and then wondered what else they can do with this thing. They went to shooting varmints and then deer and they are going to continue doing that no matter what anybody says. Therefore, folks like me think that it's good to at least tell folks what works pretty well. And I think that the new Nosler 64 gr BSB might a good choice for those that intend to use the caliber on deer.

Took me 3 powders to find a good load for shooting that bullet in my 223 (warmish load of H335). I haven't tried it in the 220 yet and I'm not sure that I will. I might get the 64 grainer to stabilize for 100 yards, but I need something that's good to 300 or more, and I have big doubts that I'll get that from the bullet.

 

[Barnacle Brad]

How high do you have to stack the carcasses to convince the nay saying elitists?

 

[Panfisher]

Its all fake, everyone knows a .223 cannot kill a deer, the bullets simply bounce off.

 

[Barnacle Brad]

(snickering)

 

[jmr40]

The 22-250 caught on here in the 1980's among a group of local hunters. I know about a dozen guys who put away their bigger guns and made the switch. These were the guys who always killed the most and biggest deer around and they all swore they saw quicker kills with the 22-250 than they ever did with bigger guns.

Before that I know of a few old timers who swore their 22 Hornets were plenty. It was the only centerfire many had so that is what they used. Up until the 1970's deer were pretty rare here. Almost no one owned 30-30's because no deer were here to hunt. Guys owned shotguns for small game and 22 Hornets for varmints years ago. By the time deer became plenitful most hunters went straight to bolt rifles. There is a long tradition of using 22 centerfire for deer around here.

 

[loic]

I just love my 22-250, I reload it with nosler 55gr and it us very accurate (better than hornady vmax) I need a new barrel for it, I'll probably put a 1-8 twist so I can shoot much heavier bullets.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Depends on what you are shooting and how well you shoot.

We have used .222, .223, and .224 for years to cull deer, hogs, varmints, etc. Those calibers work like a charm when you headshot any animal. If you are hunting trophy, then you take your chances that a heartshot will work, at least without having to track. The message boards are awash with ".223 won't work on hogs" type talk, but we've harvested dozens and dozens and dozens of hogs of all sizes with it, even with children behind the trigger, so I know that is bunk. All that being said, I would not trust these calibers with an immediate kill beyond an effective range of 100-150 yards on a larger-than-a-varmint animal without it being a true head shot.

 

[Guv]

Winchester has sold 223 with a 64gr powerpoint for many years (20)? The powerpoint is their standard deer bullet with a heavier jacket than say their 55gr sp. Never seen it offered in their other loadings, haven't really looked lately though.

 

[tahunua001]

nice pair of turbo goats brad, I miss the meat, I wish I could get one, bring me back to my childhood.

 

[Old Stony]

I have shot a lot of hogs using 5.56 military fmj's and do so on a regular basis. They work quite well, as long as the placement is good. My shooting is always 100 yds or less and often with night vision. I've found that if I place the shot in the shoulder area they drop immediately...but the bullet seldom exits. If you hit it behind the shoulder into the rib area, chances are you will find the pig in the next county. Yeah...the .223's will kill game, but bullet placement is everything. I use them all the time, but I still feel that bigger is better and offers a better chance of success.

 

[Barnacle Brad]

So here is the challenge Old Stony: load up some of the 64gr BSBs and shoot ten hogs behind the shoulders where your bullets is failing, and let us know the results.

Since this thread is about the 64gr BSB, I don't think it is fair to make a comparison with it and FMJ bullet unless you provide performance information to back it up.

I keep hearing people say that "shot placement" is everything, as if with larger cal rifles it is not. Shooting a large cal does not automatically guarantee a successful one shot kill while disregarding shot placement. When hunting any animal regardless of caliber, shot placement is the foremost consideration...

 

[603Country]

I'm with Barnacle in that I believe that if you use the right bullet (and place it well), a 224 cal will kill deer. My cousin raised his kid (now a big city lawyer) shooting a 223 for deer, and the kid is proud to say that he never lost a deer and never had to shoot one twice. That's good, but personally, I don't plan to do that. A couple of years ago, I was coyote/pig hunting quite a bit on my place and I was using the 220 Swift and the 55 gr Nosler BT. Works like a laser beam on coyotes, but it just wouldn't always drop a big pig without my having to track it to where it died, and there are some briar patches here that I don't want to revisit. So I ramped up the next biggest caliber (260) and downsized to the 100 gr Nosler BT and nothing has needed tracking since. But...I love that old 220 and wanted a good pig bullet for it. I just recently found the load for that 64 grainer in my 223 and I'll load up some for the 220 and hope that they'll work. Gotta at least try it, though I'm expecting to fail. If I do fail to stabilize that bullet in the Swift, I'll think about a new barrel with a faster twist. So far I can't convince myself to do it, but I keep thinking about it.

 

[Panfisher]

Hmm shoot them behind the shoulder with a 7.62 FMJ and see how far they run. Bullet placement is only part of the equation, bullet construction is also a big part of it. Bullets designed for the task, placed in the proper spot will equal dead critters. Note that the "proper spot" may be different depending on the bullet, caliber, critter, etc.

 

[Guv]

603,

I used to shoot 60gr Hornady in my Ruger 77 220. It would put 5 shots under a half inch at a 100 yards.