Mosin-Nagant 91/30, 7.62x54r surpluss, 3-9x POS Scope, 4ft gong, 3 in a row.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl3JRI75SsI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl3JRI75SsI
1000 yard shot, which gun and cartridge?
- Thread starter Sgt. Mike
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This is totally false.
Using representative ballistic data from here, a 550gr at 1350 fps BC of 0.25, here's how it stacks up
Code:
_Bullet_ _BC_ _MV_ 0 300 600 900 1200 1500 1800 | YARDS
338LM 300SMK 0.77* 2750 > 0.00 3.70 15.76 37.96 72.53 121.92 187.88 | wind (inches)
338LM 250LAP 0.675 2950 > 0.00 3.84 16.47 39.86 76.65 129.73 201.21 | wind (inches)
300RUM 240SMK 0.71* 2875 > 0.00 3.77 16.11 38.92 74.82 126.81 196.96 | wind (inches)
300WM 240SMK 0.71* 2700 > 0.00 4.13 17.66 42.82 82.57 139.61 214.91 | wind (inches)
300WM 208AMAX 0.648 2900 > 0.00 4.11 17.69 43.01 83.05 140.86 217.99 | wind (inches)
7mm 180VLD 0.659 2975 > 0.00 3.90 16.72 40.54 78.12 132.47 205.72 | wind (inches)
7mm 162AMAX 0.625 3085 > 0.00 3.91 16.83 40.97 79.27 135.12 210.85 | wind (inches)
.260 139 0.615 2900 > 0.00 4.35 18.79 45.91 89.09 151.54 234.13 | wind (inches)
.308 175 0.51* 2650 > 0.00 6.25 27.68 69.65 136.75 227.31 336.16 | wind (inches)
550gr B.P. 0.250 1350 > 0.00 23.60 83.18 172.51 293.34 449.88 649.04 | wind (inches)
338LM 300SMK 0.77* 2750 > -2.00 -11.41 -74.27 -206.72 -431.28 -779.60 -1294.08 | drop (inches)
338LM 250LAP 0.675 2950 > -2.00 -9.56 -64.91 -184.32 -391.19 -719.46 -1216.01 | drop (inches)
300RUM 240SMK 0.71* 2875 > -2.00 -10.20 -68.11 -191.80 -404.31 -739.22 -1242.96 | drop (inches)
300WM 240SMK 0.71* 2700 > -2.00 -12.15 -79.08 -221.81 -468.01 -857.35 -1441.99 | drop (inches)
300WM 208AMAX 0.648 2900 > -2.00 -10.12 -68.42 -195.07 -416.68 -772.16 -1314.43 | drop (inches)
7mm 180VLD 0.659 2975 > -2.00 -9.37 -64.02 -182.48 -388.73 -717.81 -1218.35 | drop (inches)
7mm 162AMAX 0.625 3085 > -2.00 -8.49 -59.47 -171.28 -368.00 -685.59 -1174.95 | drop (inches)
.260 139 0.615 2900 > -2.00 -10.22 -69.49 -199.56 -430.07 -804.79 -1382.41 | drop (inches)
.308 175 0.51* 2650 > -2.00 -13.73 -92.89 -276.23 -623.37 -1212.91 -2121.82 | drop (inches)
550gr B.P. 0.250 1350 > -2.00 -76.56 -473.59 -1331.50 -2807.49 -5100.95 -8480.61 | drop (inches)
338LM 300SMK 0.77* 2750 > 2750 2428 2129 1852 1597 1377 1202 | velocity (fps)
338LM 250LAP 0.675 2950 > 2950 2570 2221 1902 1614 1369 1180 | velocity (fps)
300RUM 240SMK 0.71* 2875 > 2875 2519 2191 1887 1607 1366 1180 | velocity (fps)
300WM 240SMK 0.71* 2700 > 2700 2358 2042 1749 1486 1269 1113 | velocity (fps)
300WM 208AMAX 0.648 2900 > 2900 2509 2151 1826 1537 1298 1125 | velocity (fps)
7mm 180VLD 0.659 2975 > 2975 2584 2226 1899 1604 1356 1167 | velocity (fps)
7mm 162AMAX 0.625 3085 > 3085 2665 2281 1932 1618 1355 1158 | velocity (fps)
.260 139 0.615 2900 > 2900 2489 2115 1777 1481 1245 1084 | velocity (fps)
.308 175 0.51* 2650 > 2650 2173 1752 1391 1136 992 901 | velocity (fps)
550gr B.P. 0.250 1350 > 1350 983 827 718 630 557 496 | velocity (fps)Wind drift of the "old big bore" is roughly twice the .308 load.
External ballistics are primarily determined by muzzle velocity and BC. You're not going to find a lot of historical big bore bullets with BC values that are even close to what we're shooting now.
if you are just driving around shooting at deer at long ranges with out getting ready,you are right.we shoot at known ranges (range finders) and the same places every year,mostly on mountain sides with snow on the ground and with good glass. in the fall before season we would put up targets and shoot so we had all the right clicks to dial in for elevation. the wind can be watched by tree movements and can be waited out if need be. i don,t long range hunt any more as i,m to old to drag the deer back up the mountain. if it was just about killing deer,i would just stump hunt or buy a big flashlight. eastbank.
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I did a little research on my own just now, using fewer number, mainly because I doubt I'd have much of a choice using just my own stock of ammo. But I couldn't go out to 1,000 yards, so I had to settle for 500 yards. I only compared two loads each of 308 Winchester and .45-70 Government. It does look like the 308 had not energy at 500 yards than the .45-70 however you slice it but the 405 grain .45-70 has as much retained energy at 500 yards, percentage wise, as a 150 grain .308. It appears that the heavier .45-70 load had a higher energy at 500 yards but the lighter .308 (150 gr vs. 180 gr) load had the higher energy, but it started out with less anyway.
I see your point about the ballistic coefficient but that is only one factor. I don't think the trajectory is particularly important, there being a lot of drop in all cases, even is one happens to be twice what the other is. If your time in the army was spent learning to shoot howitizers, and mine was, that just seems to be a given. I couldn't find anything about how to calculate bullet drift. Shooting uphill or downhill might complicate things back in the fire control center.
On the other hand, the time of flight could be a factor if you were actually shooting at a target that could move, but I don't think you would frighten him with the gunshot at that distance.
Interesting topic.
I see your point about the ballistic coefficient but that is only one factor. I don't think the trajectory is particularly important, there being a lot of drop in all cases, even is one happens to be twice what the other is. If your time in the army was spent learning to shoot howitizers, and mine was, that just seems to be a given. I couldn't find anything about how to calculate bullet drift. Shooting uphill or downhill might complicate things back in the fire control center.
On the other hand, the time of flight could be a factor if you were actually shooting at a target that could move, but I don't think you would frighten him with the gunshot at that distance.
Interesting topic.
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midnightrider
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a 338 lapua 300 gr bullet has about 1500 ft.lbs. at grand, thats enough to filibuster a buck.
hey you critics that say its not ethical, if you had a rifle capable of anchoring a buck a thousand and the knowledge to do so your story would change a little. muhahaha.
heres a 300 WSM at 1100 yds full custom win mod 70 receiver lilja 27 inch barrel nightforce glass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbalvYJIwI0
hey you critics that say its not ethical, if you had a rifle capable of anchoring a buck a thousand and the knowledge to do so your story would change a little. muhahaha.
heres a 300 WSM at 1100 yds full custom win mod 70 receiver lilja 27 inch barrel nightforce glass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbalvYJIwI0
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I'm all for harvesting game at reasonable ranges... 1000 yards doesn't fall into that category IMHO. 250-350 yards is about my limit on shooting an animal and only then if conditions are right. The closer you can get to your intended meal the better off you are. It's not that it can't be done, it's just that too much can go wrong at greater ranges resulting in a wounded, or maimed animal. Shooting steel at long ranges is a blast. At least you don't have to worry about one crawling off somewhere to die a slow death because of a botched shot.
I was squadded with a 1000 yard Wimbleton Cup winner, at a 1000 yard match, and we both were discussing how seldom (like never) we ever hit the ten ring first shot. Now this is at a range were we have zeros from the last match, we know the range conditions, and we are familiar with our rifles.
Animals are not paper targets, they deserve better than to suffer a lingering and miserable death because some “Long Range” hunter wants to bean one at 1000 yards.
Animals are not paper targets, they deserve better than to suffer a lingering and miserable death because some “Long Range” hunter wants to bean one at 1000 yards.
mapsjanhere
New member
That's why I'm always seriously impressed with the reports from Zak's safari style shooting matches, one shot per target at variable distances puts a completely new challenge to long distance shooting.
The Steel Safari is a practical-style long-range field match, in which shooters get one shot per target at UKD targets in the 1.5-2.5 MOA range scattered in the field at distances from about 150 to 800 odd yards. The scores for the winners are typically 66 to 75% of the possible number of first-round hits.
The top shooters also generally know when they are very likely to make a first round hit versus not very likely at all.
Without extensive experience shooting "first rounds" at a variety of targets at various distances at various locations and in various conditions, the ability to call a shot as 90%+ sure is absent.
Given the average hunter at "range sight in day" shooting at 100 or 200 yards, they have about the same chance of hitting a target at 100/200 that my competitors do at 400-600 yards.
The top shooters also generally know when they are very likely to make a first round hit versus not very likely at all.
Without extensive experience shooting "first rounds" at a variety of targets at various distances at various locations and in various conditions, the ability to call a shot as 90%+ sure is absent.
Given the average hunter at "range sight in day" shooting at 100 or 200 yards, they have about the same chance of hitting a target at 100/200 that my competitors do at 400-600 yards.
The round is probably still supersonic, so there will be a snap.
I do, and it doesn't. Well, not at 1000, but it still has the horsepower past 600 and I wouldn't take that shot either, and 600 yards is an order of magnitude easier than 1000 yards.
Knowledge is why I say it is unethical. There are too many variables.
Hey, so you get an awesome 1000 yard zero, but that was at 250 ft elevation. You are at 2250 now. Guess what, your elevation will be off by a ten inches, and you windage will be off by 20 inches, in the same conditions.
You sighted in you rifle on a dry day, 20% humidity. But it just stopped raining when Bambi's dad walked into the open. Quick, how much does that change you trajectory? You got your hygrometer with you, right?
When you worked up your zero it was a nice clear day, about 80º. When the muley broke cover it was first light, and only about 50º How much will that change your 1000 yard zero?
A storm is coming in, how much did the barometric pressure change, and what will it do to your trajectory?
All these questions are why long range matches have sighters.
How much you want to bet that wasn't his first shot? How much you want to bet if you took that guy somewhere else and plopped him down at an unknown range somewhere between 800 and 1100 yards he would NOT hit that gong his first shot?
midnightrider
New member
there are many variables, and only a handful of hunters on the planet with a good spotter that can make a 1000 yd kill first shot. but its possible.
Im just listing some good rifles and setups for the guy who does want to be able to take deer at a grand. oh and also you might want to get yourself a very good spotter.
Im just listing some good rifles and setups for the guy who does want to be able to take deer at a grand. oh and also you might want to get yourself a very good spotter.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/
Unless you’re supremely trained with the kind of field craft and shooting skills needed for this kind of hunting, I wouldn't be comfortable trying it. The risk of trauma/terror to the animal is more than I'm willing to risk.
Good Luck.
Unless you’re supremely trained with the kind of field craft and shooting skills needed for this kind of hunting, I wouldn't be comfortable trying it. The risk of trauma/terror to the animal is more than I'm willing to risk.
Good Luck.
Good question. I think a heavy bullet maintains momentum better so even if it starts out slower at the muzzle it may be moving faster at 1000 than a lighter bullet with higher muzzle velocity. I think the world record on Stone Sheep for years was one where the shot was 900 yards. Then there's the issue of bullet expansion at that range.
And 1,000 yard shot at the range doesn't equal a 1,000 yard shot in the field, at that range the parabolic path of the bullet drop is really kicking in, even a slight error in range estimation will result in a miss.
And 1,000 yard shot at the range doesn't equal a 1,000 yard shot in the field, at that range the parabolic path of the bullet drop is really kicking in, even a slight error in range estimation will result in a miss.
Based on the number of people who still think this isn't a stupid idea, this bears repeating:
The 10-ring on the NRA LR target is 20 inches diameter.
People who regularly shoot at 1000 yards, including a guy who won the nationals at Camp Perry, on a known range, with known zero for that location, rarely hit a target larger than the size of a deer's vitals on the first shot.
Slamfire said:
The 10-ring on the NRA LR target is 20 inches diameter.
People who regularly shoot at 1000 yards, including a guy who won the nationals at Camp Perry, on a known range, with known zero for that location, rarely hit a target larger than the size of a deer's vitals on the first shot.
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