100 Yards: What's your most accurate rifle, the ammo and group size?

5whiskey

New member
Personal best 5 round group (only shoot 3 for load workups) at 100? .4 CTC from a Savage 110 that I rebarreled and built. Its a .270, ammo is my handloads. To be fair federal powershok will also shoot very sub moa

That was 10 years ago when the barrel was fresh. Now its not quite as accurate, but still not bad. FWIW it (and I apparently) shoot significantly better at longer distances. I've shot numerous true 1" groups at 300 yds. Then it seems at 400+ I open back up some. Scope is a 10x fixed... Which explains the 300 yd sweet spot I guess.
 

Don Fischer

New member
Funny thing and I suspect we all do it. Get a rifle down to 3/4" and try to get it to 1/2". Get to 1/2" and we want 1/4". I bet that is totally useless to most of us. We don't seriously compete! I think 1" is fine really but heaven forbid I should except it! Most of us have or have had a 1/2" rifle or two along the way and a 1/2" rifle, no, a 1/4" rifle isn't gonna win us a serious match!

When everything is going right, I just like to show off! When there's some kind of problem, I like to hide!
 

Josh Smith

Moderator
Don,

When I get under an inch I'm already seriously over what my eyes can do with iron sights.

I only find irons interesting these days...

Josh
 

tlm225

New member
My Remington .308 will consistently shoot 1 1/2", sometimes down to 1 1/4". Good enough for me to get a whitetail in the areas I hunt.
 

Picher

New member
Monday 6/10/17: Shot one fouling shot, then 4 in .3", then 3 in .25" with my improved, but factory-stocked .223 Rem, 700 ADL, at 100 yards. Load was 55 grain Sierra Spitzer, 24.0 grains of Varget over a CCI Small Mag. primer.

Leupold VX2 scope parallax is set for more like 150 yards, so had to be very careful to center the image.

Paid $266. for the rifle N.I.B., with a "throw-away" scope at Marden's in Waterville, ME. It was a gun-shop buyout and had a $399.95 Wal-Mart tag on the box. Best bargain for many years!
 

44caliberkid

New member
My first AR build was on a 5.56 barrel I got from GunBroker. The description said, made by a big name barrel maker and guaranteed to shoot MOA. I built a flattop with an A2 stock, and 4-12 variable scope. It had a terrible Mil spec trigger in it and I was getting clusters of 4 to 5 inches. I ordered a CMC drop in trigger, 3.5 pound pull and first group at 100 yards you could cover with a dime.
 

agtman

Moderator
I don't shoot 3 shot groups as they are meaningless to me.
But, the best 10 shot groups I have shot are 5/16 C to C * * * .

I agree.

For the serious rifleman, 3-shots isn't a "group"; it merely indicates you've achieved a point of aim, and are indeed "on paper" at whatever distance.

5-shots is the minimum number of rounds for a "group," in the sense that it's minimally sufficient to provide a basis for evaluating the accuracy of that load in that rifle - whether factory ammo or handloads.

All that said, 100-yds is the newbie's/beginner's baseline distance for accuracy. For experienced marksmen, 100-yds is just a convenient minimum distance.

Real accuracy shows itself at 300-yds, where the confluence of an inherently accurate rifle, a competent shooter, and consistent ammunition all meet for a happy on-target result. :cool:
 
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Picher

New member
I don't agree that anything under 5 shots isn't a group. It's a group to most sporter hunter/shooters, but not to most target shooters.

To me, three shots in a quarter-inch is darned good. Two three-shot groups is even better, especially if they overlap the other group.

If I was shooting a heavy benchrest rifle with reloaded ammo that's benchrest quality, I'd expect 10 shot groups at 200 or more yards to be 1/8-1/4 MIN under ideal conditions.

We rarely have "ideal conditions" for shooting in Maine. It's frustrating to be a benchrester and have to shoot at most ranges here, because of variable winds, often swirling and often, mirage that is crazy. Rimfire benchrest is even harder than centerfire, because the ammo is such a huge factor...believe it.
 

Rimfire5

New member
Which is more indicative of load accuracy potential in a particular rifle?

a) one 3 shot group chosen for bragging rights
b) one 5 shot group chosen for bragging rights
c) the average of all 3 shot groups shot with a particular powder, bullet and seating depth
d) the median and standard deviation of all 3 shot groups shot with a particular powder, bullet and seating depth
e) the average of all 3 shot groups shot with a particular powder-bullet combination regardless of seating depth.
f) the median and standard of all 3 shot groups shot with a particular powder-bullet combination

To me, a) and b) are anomalies that don't represent anything but all the stars and planets being aligned for the shooter and don't represent the true performance of the shooter, the rifle and the load. It can't be claimed to be repeatable.
c) and e) would allow some amount of confidence if the number of groups measured were 20 or more.
d) and f) would allow an additional value if the number of groups measured were 20 or more because you could also calculate the percentage of groups you could expect to be with limits (such as the size range of groups you could expect to fall within 90% of the groups measured).

I measure all 3 and 5 round groups that I shoot and dutifully record them.
I use 3 round groups to test loads recording bullet and weight, powder and grains loaded to 0.1 grain, seating depth to 0.001, primers, and case length trim to 0.001. I generally shoot 6 groups at a minimum and only use the average to judge potential performance.

When I find loads that the rifle shoots consistently, I concentrate on taking larger samples.

I also find that gathering all groups shot with a powder-bullet combination provides additional information on what combinations are really the best performers, regardless of seating depth, velocities and trim length.

There is a difference in average group sizes between 3 and 5 round groups, possibility caused more by shooter variations and potential barrel heating than anything else.

My most accurate rifles show the following measured results. So which is the most accurate?

Savage 12 LPR 6.5mm Creedmoor

Best Ammo Avg. (5 - 3 rnd groups) = 0.161 --------- (5 rnd groups) = 0.302
Overall Average (169 - 3 rnd groups) = 0.259 - (5 rnd groups) = 0.435
Median (169 - 3 rnd groups) 0.249 StDev = 0.096
Group size range (from the smallest 5% to the largest 5%) = 0.233 to 0.265
Best powder-bullet combination (IMR 4350 142 gr TMK - 31 grps) avg. = 0.223
Median = 0.215 Std Dev = 0.086

.308 Savage 10 FP
Best Ammo Avg. (5 - 3 rnd groups) = 0.198 ---------(5 rnd groups) = 0.429
Overall Average (962 - 3 rnd groups) = 0.362 - (5 rnd groups) = 0.472
Median (962 - 3 rnd groups) 0.337 StDev = 0.152
Group size range (from the smallest 5% to the largest 5%) = 0.327 to 0.347
Best powder-bullet combination (IMR 4350 168 gr SMK- 31 grps) avg. = 0.223
Median = 0.286 Std Dev = 0.063

.223 Les Baer Super Varmint
Best Ammo Avg. (5 - 3 rnd groups) = 0.149 --------- (5 rnd groups) = 0.283
Overall Average (839 - 3 rnd groups) = 0.259 - (5 rnd groups) = 0.423
Median (839 -3 rnd groups) 0.266 StDev = 0.119
Group size range (from the smallest 5% to the largest 5%) = 0.257 to 0.275
Best powder-bullet combination (N140 69 TMK - 13 grps) avg. = 0.215
Median = 0.205 Std Dev = 0.080
 
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Don Fischer

New member
Day in and day out, it's my 6.5x06 closely followed by my 243's. But for all time it's my 25-06. Fired a .111" 5 shot group with it, couldn't see more than one hole till I got right on the target, though 4 shot's had missed completely. The load was a 100gr SMK with H120 primer, 53.0 grs IMR 4350. Fired that one group and hung it up. Didn't want to have to try that again. So, I guess the most accurate is that one. Never fired a bigger than .111" group @100 yds with it! :)
 

michaelcj

New member
My 1951 Winchester Model #43 in .22 Hornet will shoot three shot cloverleafs and 5 shot sub .5" all day long at 100yards.

Always use my handloads of: WW brass, WW small pistol primers, Sierra #1210 45gr, and 12.8 grains of Lilgun.
 

darkgael

New member
Reposting my picture (best 100 yard 10 shot group) after the blocking by Photobucket.
 

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Mozella

New member
I usually shoot 5 shot groups, but I do have a 100 yard 3-shot group from my Savage .223 with a 30" PacNor barrel. It was measured as having an MOA of .085. That's a little more than 1/16" center to center.

My best 4 shot group from my Savage 6mm BR Norma with a 28" Shilen barrel is .168" center to center.

My best 5 shot group from my Howa 1500 .223 with a factory barrel is .162" center to center.

Of course this kind of performance isn't "normal" but it shows what is possible with inexpensive guns on a good day. All of these rifles have produced plenty of 5 shot groups below .300 MOA.

It's not easy getting an occasional 5 shot group smaller than 3/16" but it need not be expensive. None of my guns cost over $1000. However, it does require paying attention to good reloading practices.

All these groups were scanned into the very good On Target scoring program and carefully marked and measured to the nearest .001". If you don't have On Target software and if you're interested in developing accurate loads, you should get it.
 

Hanshi

New member
My most accurate rifle is an old Ruger M77 in .250 Sav. With Speer, Hornady or Sierra bullets (100 grains down to 87 grains) loaded with 32 grains of 3031, it will consistently go under 1/2" with occasional 1/4" groups. I'm not that good of a shot but the rifle is. Running a close second is my Remington M700 limited edition classic in .350 Rem Mag. With 200 grain Hornady pointed bullets, it is a consistent shooter hardly distinguishable from the .250. I would not part with either for any amount of $$; well, maybe a LOT of $$.
 

jersurf101

New member
My 1980s Weatherby Vanguard deluxe will shoot bug holes with sierra 130 gk's and IMR4064. It shoots very well with most 130s and that particular load is my pet load.
 

RaySendero

New member
To Quote an Earlier Post:


Smaller than a dime size group(3 shot clover leaf) ..... Off a bench on a good day.



4980Target_270_100yd_DimeSize1_022402.jpg
 
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