You can't give a gun as a gift!

[hogdogs]

I think I am technically correct even with the hair splitting...

The actual act of making the purchase is the "straw man act"...

The crime is making a false statement on the form...

If I lie and say I have no drug abuse issues while crocked outta my mind on heroin... I made a false statement... Not a straw purchase...

If there was no form to fill out but the same forbidden person laws were in effect, the crime would be based solely on the straw purchase rules...

A straw purchase is any purchase wherein the purchaser knowingly acquires an item or service for someone who is, for whatever reason, unable to purchase the item or service himself. This term can be applied to any such purchase, but it is most widely used in relation to the sale of firearms, especially in United States federal gun laws.

I ain't no "fiddletown" or Bart Roberts but that is how read into it.

Brent

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

I've given guns as gifts, all they had to do was go to the store, fill out the forms, pass the background check and then take delivery, all I did was order it and pay for it

 

[orionengnr]

On another somewhat related note: Do all Bass Pro Shops keep trigger locks on their guns? Or just the one near me?

Yeah, the one near me does too...but they are happy to take it off if you want to look at one.
My BPS does not have good "every day" prices, but has some pretty good sale prices. And their counter personnel are friendly and knowledgeable.

 

[C0untZer0]

I'm all for Bass Pro, and Cabella's selling guns.

Some of the gun dealers in my area are reasonable with their prices and others have outrageous prices. I think the competition is good. I think the Internet and out-of-state transfers are great too!

 

[dogtown tom]

hogdogs I think I am technically correct even with the hair splitting...

The hair splitting is often needed to keep someone from violating Federal law.

Most people think a straw purchase is when someone attempts to acquire a firearm on behalf of a prohibited person.
Actually, a straw purchase occurs anytime someone attempts to acquire a firearm on behalf of another person.

Examples:
1. Bob comes into my store and says "I want to buy that Desert Eagle as a gift to my wife".......not a straw purchase as Bob is the actual buyer/transferee & "gifting" is completely legal.

2. Bob comes into my store and says "I'll take that used Glock right there...my cousin gave me $450 and said to pick him up a handgun next time I went to town".....straw sale. Doesn't matter if the cousin is a prohibited person or not.

3. Jack & Jill come into the store and Jack spends a few minutes looking over the guns. Jack then tells Jill "buy the Hi Point"........very possibly a straw sale as Jack MAY be the actual buyer.....the dealer is prohibited from completing the transaction if he merely suspects that Jill is not the actual buyer....but acquiring the firearm on behalf of Jack.

4. Sam comes into the store and spots a Tauras 1911 Ninja Special......he knows his best friend has been wanting that gun since it was featured in Mall Tactics Monthly....he calls his friend who asks him to buy it for him......straw sale.

5. Tommy gets a $500 gift from grandma for his HS graduation. He goes with his dad to the local gun store......where he picks out a Glock 17. As Tommy is only 18, he gives his $$$ to dad to complete the purchase......straw sale as Tommy's dad is not the actual buyer.

 

[Onward Allusion]

Uncle Buck
You can't give a gun as a gift!

Bass Pro... gotta luv 'em. I stopped going there.

Yes, you can give a gun as a gift. With regard to the 4473, you're not lying when you say that you are buying the gun for yourself. Just like you are not lying when you are buying a toaster for yourself to give as a gift to the bride & groom.

 

[8shot357]

I hate Bass Pro more and more. Every time I hear stuff like this, it just re-enforces the reason not to shop there.

It there price's that kill me.

 

[hogdogs]

straw sale as Tommy's dad is not the actual buyer.

Tommy is forbidden from buying though...

Hogdogs knows junior wants a .22mag single six... Sees one used in gun shop and buys it. Takes it home and gives it to 18 year old junior... Not a straw sale.

Brent

 

[montelores]

"so it would be registered in his name."

So now we need to register our guns?

Monty

 

[hogdogs]

Monty.. it must be a new law we knew was comin' that got snuck in on us...

Brent

 

[hogdogs]

And I do know it is illegal for me to pick up a gun on the behalf of a legit person if they will ultimately be the one paying for it.

Brent

 

[dogtown tom]

hogdogs

Quote:straw sale as Tommy's dad is not the actual buyer.

Tommy is forbidden from buying though...

Doesn't matter. It's a straw sale because the father was not the actual buyer/transferee.

Tommy will have to stick to purchasing rifles or shotguns from dealers. He can buy a handgun from a source other than a licensed dealer.

 

[hogdogs]

Doesn't matter. It's a straw sale because the father was not the actual buyer/transferee.

And I do know it is illegal for me to pick up a gun on the behalf of a legit person if they will ultimately be the one paying for it.

Brent

Right...
Brent

 

[Tom Servo]

You ARE the actual purchaser if you use YOUR money and then GIVE the gun as a gift. If you use someone else's money to purchase a gun and then give it to them, you have violated the law. Their ability to make the purchase DOES NOT MATTER.

Brickeye is correct.

As far as I know, Missouri does not register guns.

My best guess is that Bass Pro has a corporate policy forbidding the practice, and that employees were improperly briefed. Firearms laws can be confusing to folks who don't have a vested interest in guns, and that includes the counter help at many jack-of-all-trades big box stores. It might be worth a call to the corporate office for clarification.

Michael Bloomberg's little round of undercover stings a few years ago had a chilling effect on firearms commerce in this regard. One retailer local to me also refuses to allow purchases with the intent of gifting. In fact, they insist that every buyer sign a separate disclaimer swearing that he is not buying the firearm on behalf of someone else.

If it is Bass Pro's policy to forbid such transactions, it would be up to your sister to determine whether or not she'd feel wrong in simply not telling them what her plans were for the weapon. In any case, she would not be breaking any federal law under the circumstances you described.

 

[Uncle Buck]

She also lives in Missouri.

You would think a company which caters to outdoors type people would know the law. This is not my first go around with this store either. Apparently it is also more important to discuss who got drunk with whom last night than it is to actually help a customer.


Fish: I have been told that I very closely model my life around the real Uncle Buck. When the nephew was younger, I gave him a framed movie poster from Uncle Buck.

 

[Southern Rebel]

4. Sam comes into the store and spots a Tauras 1911 Ninja Special......he knows his best friend has been wanting that gun since it was featured in Mall Tactics Monthly....he calls his friend who asks him to buy it for him......straw sale.

Nope - I have every right to purchase a gun with full intent to resell that gun. The fact that I plan to resell it to a friend that I happen to know wants that particular model does not mean that I am not purchasing it for myself. The devil is in the details. I haven't used his money and I am the legal owner until such time as I agree to sell it to him. (Exception granted if I state outright that I am buying for my friend or he has provided me the funds beforehand.)

 

[Frank Ettin]

4. Sam comes into the store and spots a Tauras 1911 Ninja Special......he knows his best friend has been wanting that gun since it was featured in Mall Tactics Monthly....he calls his friend who asks him to buy it for him......straw sale.

Nope -

Yes, it is a straw purchase. It's a straw purchase because your friend asks you to buy the gun for him. That makes you his agent (or intermediary or proxy -- those are fairly equivalent terms) for the purposes of buying the gun on his behalf. You are therefore not, in the contemplation of the law, the actual purchaser. Your friend is, but he is buying the gun through you as his agent.

...I am the legal owner ...

Not really under the law. Because you bought the gun on behalf of your friend, at his direction, the law would view you as merely holding the gun as your friend's agent in trust for him.

...The devil is in the details...

Yes, the devil is in the details. And the fact that, as posited, your friend asked you to buy the gun for him, and you then did, is a detail that makes all the difference.

If there was no form to fill out but the same forbidden person laws were in effect, the crime would be based solely on the straw purchase rules...

A straw purchase is any purchase wherein the purchaser knowingly acquires an item or service for someone who is, for whatever reason, unable to purchase the item or service himself. This term can be applied to any such purchase, but it is most widely used in relation to the sale of firearms, especially in United States federal gun laws.

I ain't no "fiddletown" or Bart Roberts but that is how read into it.

But let's see how ATF reads it.

See the ATF publication Federal Firearms Regulation Reference Guide, 2005, at page 165 (emphasis added):

15. STRAW PURCHASES

Questions have arisen concerning the lawfulness of firearms purchases from licensees by persons who use a "straw purchaser" (another person) to acquire the firearms. Specifically, the actual buyer uses the straw purchaser to execute the Form 4473 purporting to show that the straw purchaser is the actual purchaser of the firearm. In some instances, a straw purchaser is used because the actual purchaser is prohibited from acquiring the firearm. That is to say, the actual purchaser is a felon or is within one of the other prohibited categories of persons who may not lawfully acquire firearms or is a resident of a State other than that in which the licensee's business premises is located. Because of his or her disability, the person uses a straw purchaser who is not prohibited from purchasing a firearm from the licensee. In other instances, neither the straw purchaser nor the actual purchaser is prohibited from acquiring the firearm.

In both instances, the straw purchaser violates Federal law by making false statements on Form 4473 to the licensee with respect to the identity of the actual purchaser of the firearm, as well as the actual purchaser's residence address and date of birth. The actual purchaser who utilized the straw purchaser to acquire a firearm has unlawfully aided and abetted or caused the making of the false statements. The licensee selling the firearm under these circumstances also violates Federal law if the licensee is aware of the false statements on the form. It is immaterial that the actual purchaser and the straw purchaser are residents of the State in which the licensee's business premises is located, are not prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms, and could have lawfully purchased firearms...

 

[fisherman66]

Fish: I have been told that I very closely model my life around the real Uncle Buck. When the nephew was younger, I gave him a framed movie poster from Uncle Buck.

I brought the name thing up not because of the movie, but Bass Pro Shops uses the name Uncle Buck for their more "novelty" brand name tags. "XPS" and "Red Head" are others.

Big Box store clerks are not what they used to be (perhaps they never were). I have no expectations for them to be knowledgeable. But BPS offered the lowest price on two models I bought. The nearest couple "gun shops" were almost 20% higher. I consider myself a rational shopper. I don't pay for research I can do on my own. Some of the local GS treat patrons with the jaundice eye and look like they are on constant alert against being robbed. Seriously, what kind of idiot would rob a GS that encourages employees to open carry? I'll take the big box goofs over the local "special ops" from my old stomping grounds.

Geeze, I'm sorry. I had no intention of ranting. I need a couple ibuprofen.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I had no idea Bass Pro use the Uncle Buck moniker on any thing. Funny though.

 

[therealdeal]

I like basspro but that's just me. Getting some gator bites nextdoor(same bldg but next room) is fun too but the restaurant is the overpriced part. I have found good prices on guns at bass + good turnaround time on waiting for a gun to arrive so they can call you. I've only purchased two there, but the signs you can buy for your home and other knicknacks are nice too not to mention the pepperspray and pretty much anything else you need. I saved 10% on the purchase too by getting a basscard and cancelling it after paying it off(I use amex for my cash back)...had the wife do it the 2nd time and saved a good amount of cash. I used the points on the rewards card for about 30bucks in purchases as well.

glad I found this thread - now in the future I don't have to buy the gun ahead of Christmas or kid's birthday months ahead(I buy ahead of time) and then do a small "sale" to make it legal. I can just give a gift. I always thought of the sale route because technically where I live you don't even need a paper trail but I could keep a signed bill of sale for a small amount of cash just to cover my butt. I mean giving a gift shouldn't be encroached on - I plan on giving my daughter a revolver when she gets married someday so they have a HD weapon.

PS: I'll probably do the "bill of sale" bit and actually get my 5bucks for it to avoid the hassles. It should be like a car. You care allowed sell for a dollar to family but nhave to pay taxes unfortunately...but if immediate family you don't pay the taxes and do NOT need to sell it. keep it simple