XTP's For Defense

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rodwhaincamo

New member
I noticed that XTP's did not make the list for adequate defensive purposes according to this
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm
So I googled XTP performance and found this
www.hipowersandhandguns.com/HornadyXT...
It seems they penetrate gelatin just fine, but fell short when the denim was applied. I'm curious how denim layers vs typical winter jackets hinder expansion and penetration.
As for denim, I don't intend on aiming for legs were I put in a position where I have to pull the trigger :D
Should XTP's not be used during winter months?
 
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TacticalDefense1911

New member
The design of the XTP bullet focuses more on penetration then it does expansion. From the tests I have seen, it has shown erratic performance other then test done in bare ballistic gelatin. There are just many more proven and more modern designs available that I would not even consider carrying a load with the XTP bullet. Would I feel underarmed with a magazine full of Hornady TAP ammunition or something else with the XTP bullet?; no, but there are many other loads that are just flat out better. Hornady's new "critical defense" loads are a step in the right direction. Corbon DXP, Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot, Winchester Ranger T and PDX1 are a good place to start.
 
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tjhands

New member
A much better bullet for medium/large sized American game hunting than it is for 2-legged animals. Penetrates a lot before expanding, making it not the best choice for defense against humans.
 
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Webleymkv

New member
XTP's can work well for self-defense, but only when they're driven fast enough. As has been mentioned, XTP's are designed for deeper penetration, so they don't expand as aggressively as many other bullet designs do. When coupled with the fact that Hornady doesn't seem to run them overly fast in many loadings, you wind up with spotty expansion sometimes. Where XTP's do perform well is when you start running them at higher velocities as they will expand reliably at high speed but they also hold together remarkably well for a non-bonded bullet. If you look at the .44 Magnum section in your first link, you will see that the 300grn XTP was judged to be the best loading in that caliber.

While I do occasionally carry XTP's for self-defense, I do so with 10mm ammunition loaded by Double Tap. In that particular caliber as loaded by that particular company, I am satisfied that the XTP will be running fast enough to reliably expand. As a matter of fact, I chose them over Double Tap's Speer Gold Dot loading because I had read too many reports of Gold Dots overexpanding when driven at the velocities that Double Tap loads them to.

Personally, I would only consider using XTP's if their velocity is over 1000fps, preferably faster. I would avoid them in calibers like .38 Special,.380 ACP, .32 ACP, or any other cartridge that is not commonly loaded to velocities in excess of 1000fps. In a cartridge such as .357 Sig, .357 Magnum, or 9mm with 124grn or lighter bullets, I think they are a viable option.

It is worth noting that there are two exceptions to the low-speed problems with XTP's. The first is that they still seem to expand adequately even at low velocities when used in larger-bore cartridges like .45 ACP and .44 Special. The other is the 9x18 Makarov loading. This loading seems to consistently expand well but does not penetrate very deeply.
 
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iblong

New member
The xtp may not be on par with some of the new wonder bullets on the market,but there a verry good bullet and one of the most accurate bullets youll ever hand load i like them a lot.I dont often use them for carry but I
would not hesitate to carry my hand loaded 124gr at 1250fps or my 230's at 880-900fps if needed.
 
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Jim March

New member
I would consider the 140gr or 158gr XTP in 357Mag, but only if driven "balls to the wall" in a full-size gun. Get 'em going fast enough and they'll work and as Iblong says, they have a strong reputation for peak accuracy.

In a slower caliber like 38Spl or 45ACP I would skip them completely in favor of Gold Dots with a large JHP cavity.
 
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rodwhaincamo

New member
I read a lot of posts where Silvertips are suggested as great defensive rounds. These are among the oldest of the "premium" rounds. Do these perform well during winter months of heavy jacketwear?
I have opted to handload my defensive rounds as I am on a tight budget and want a more reduced load. I'm wondering, in the event I must prove I didn't design some "extra leathal" ammo, if that would even be a viable case for a DA to pursue.
Not much in the way of quality ammo for a 44 Spl.
Hornady's 165 grn Critical Defense looks along he lines of what I am after, but I can't find any loadable bullet in that weight for practice.
Cor-Bon has a 165 grn JHP, but I feel it may just be a standard JHP that may not do well against heavy clothing. Anyone knowledgeable on that?
Midway lists ammo made by both Double Tap and Grizzly, but their websites do not show them. I have e-mailed them and await a response.
Buffalo Bore has a JHP as well, but I have read of an unhappy customer getting standard JHPs. Anyone knowledgeable on that?
That leaves me with the Hornady, Speer, and Cor-Bon's DPX load, which is VERY pricy. Especially when my GF will be practicing as well [a requirement of mine].
 
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thallub

New member
i don't have any idea how well the XTP bullets perform in ballistic gelatin.

i have killed a couple hundred wild hogs using my muzzleloader rifles and the 240 grain .430 XTP bullet: Muzzle velocity of my load is 1,750-1,800m fps. Distances have been 10 yards to 200 yards. Put that bullet in the right place and it will drop a 300 pound wild boar in its tracks: It should do the same when used on humans.
 
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TacticalDefense1911

New member
I read a lot of posts where Silvertips are suggested as great defensive rounds. These are among the oldest of the "premium" rounds. Do these perform well during winter months of heavy jacketwear?
Click to expand...

The Winchester "silvertip" is a conventional JHP bullet like the Federal Hi-shock and original Corbon loads which use Sierra JHP bullets. Just like those other bullets I have mentioned they work good in certain calibers in certain barrel lengths. Silvertips provide excellent expansion characteristics but in turn sometimes provide inadequate penetration (back to using these in the right caliber and right barrel length).

If cost is an issue I'd look into the Speer Gold Dot. You can find it boxed in 50-round "LE" boxes for just a few dollars more then their 20-round boxes. This is what I do. Gold Dot is extremely consistent in both penetration and expansion regardless of the type of barriers it has to penetrate.

What caliber are you looking for self defense ammunition for?
 
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RWK

New member
I really like the 200-grain XTPs in my S&W 610 10mm revolver (3.875 inch barrel): velocity approximates 1050 FPS, unfailing reliability and excellent accuracy. Double Tap's 10mm JHPs are also outstanding. I tend to use the Hornady round in the winter (emphasizing penetration through multiple layers of heavy clothing) and the DT 180 grain JHPs (unusually, Gold Dots or Golden Sabers) in the summer (for enhanced expansion).
 
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KyJim

New member
For those of us who don't reload, Fiocchi produces rounds in a number of calibers using XTP bullets at prices significantly less than Gold Dots or other "high end" ammo. For example, at www.ammunitiontogo.com, Speer Gold Dot 158 gr. .357 magnum is $44.95 for 50 rounds and the Fiocchi is $27.95 for 158 gr. XTPs. I would feel very comfortable with these for self-defense.

In .45 acp, the Fiocchi 230 gr. XTPs are $26.95 for 50. No boxes of 50 rounds of Gold Dots right now but Rem. Golden Sabers are $16.95 for 25 rounds. Personally, I will spend the extra money for Gold Dots, Federal HSTs, and Golden Sabers but I'm okay with even FMJ in .45 acp.
 
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Redbullitt

New member
Use what you have. No one will laugh at that bullet.

However, if you are buying ammunition, there are many bullets that should perform better.

check out speer golddot, hornady critical defense, federal hst, winchester ranger there are others of course.
 
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totaldla

New member
WESHOOT2 said:
Both the Speer and Hornady are swaged.
Click to expand...
The XTP is swaged? I've tested the .45acp and 44mag versions and they are pretty tough - must be a fairly stout alloy to begin with.
 
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