XMm 45? G21sf or ??
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tahunua001
New member
5 minutes on google revealed.
portland PD
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x47038
LAPD
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-167530.html
Oakland PD
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xdtalk...-department-recalls-4th-generation-glock.html
there are guys on TFL that have a dozen taurus pistols and have never got a lemon. just because there is an isolated incident like that does not make taurus a highly reliable and trustworthy brand. go to the gun range and rent a few glocks that haven't been cleaned in a while. if you believe that all glocks can go through 300,000 rounds before needing cleaned and never fail once, think again. all guns are going to fail and when companies start cutting corners to turn a profit(the way most gun makers have, glock included) you are going to end up with a product that is inferior to the previous steriotypes.
Officer's Match
New member
Not too surprising a Google search would turn up information on the most sold brand of handgun in the market. One a statistically measured percentage basis, you'd have a difficult time making the case that a Glock is unreliable and/or not durable.
Will Beararms
New member
The slides on M&P's crack for the record. The loaded chamber indicator on an M&P is well-----silly. I don't care for the grip frame of most replaceable Polymer Pistols save the Beretta PX4 line and the Glock. With the others, you take the back strap off and you are looking at a hole in the frame and seeing internal parts. Color me paranoid but in the even of a kaBOOM, the explosion will take the path of least resistance. I want my hand covering a sold frame of plastic. The Glock Gen. 4 uses adaptors instead of back straps essentially. If you take the back strap off of the PX4, it will still work.
I do not care for the grip safety on the XD/xdM lineup nor the loaded chamber indicator. I can't stand that little dingus sticking up on top of the breech-----there again another injury looking for a place to happen (indicator hitting the head or worse and eye upon failure) and one more thing to go wrong. I detest, nay loath the fact you have to have the grip safety depressed to rack the slide. That said, XD/xdM's have proven to be excellent weapons. Springfield Armory tenders excellent customer service.
I guess I am one of the few people in the gun world without large hands----or one of the few who admits it. Any .45 other than the 1911 platform with the flat mainspring housing just does not work for me. I can't stand the fatter grips on larger caliber polymer frame guns.
But hey, these are just my opinions and no jab at any of the fine people here who think otherwise. Since everyone does have an opinion, I would advise going with the Glock 21 Gen. 4. I have owned Glocks on and off doe years starting back in 1993 and I always go back to them. My current Glock is a Gen. 4 Glock 22 with all the recent updates that solved some of the issues they had. It fits my hand better than any larger caliber firearm I have ever owned, handled or shot.
I do not care for the grip safety on the XD/xdM lineup nor the loaded chamber indicator. I can't stand that little dingus sticking up on top of the breech-----there again another injury looking for a place to happen (indicator hitting the head or worse and eye upon failure) and one more thing to go wrong. I detest, nay loath the fact you have to have the grip safety depressed to rack the slide. That said, XD/xdM's have proven to be excellent weapons. Springfield Armory tenders excellent customer service.
I guess I am one of the few people in the gun world without large hands----or one of the few who admits it. Any .45 other than the 1911 platform with the flat mainspring housing just does not work for me. I can't stand the fatter grips on larger caliber polymer frame guns.
But hey, these are just my opinions and no jab at any of the fine people here who think otherwise. Since everyone does have an opinion, I would advise going with the Glock 21 Gen. 4. I have owned Glocks on and off doe years starting back in 1993 and I always go back to them. My current Glock is a Gen. 4 Glock 22 with all the recent updates that solved some of the issues they had. It fits my hand better than any larger caliber firearm I have ever owned, handled or shot.
Officer's Match
New member
WB, have you shot a Glock 37, 38 or 39? The 38 in particular is a sweetheart. Shot a couple of my G38's yesterday - just love 'em.
Will Beararms
New member
No but now I want one or all of them----thanks a lot! 
Officer's Match
New member
Well come on up and try one of mine, can't be more than a 20-25 hour drive.
Will Beararms
New member
It's a Glock---it's worth it. A man has to have his priorities.
A man has to have his priorities.Seriously? Didnt know that. Glad I asked here.WB said:
Although, it might actually be difficult to rack it at all and still avoid the grip safey anyway...?
I'm even looking into the 5.25, but I'm not fond at all of all the safey stuff on the XD's.
And now that you mention it, that loaded chamber indicator isnt an issue when the thing is unloaded and I'm checking it out at the store, but it very well may annoy the crap out of me with one in there.
The Glock 30 is gaining a lot of ground. I like Glocks and I like their simplicity.
I might just go that route and use the $ difference for a 9mm barrel for my G27, been trying to get around to that for awhile now.
How does the G30 feel compared to the kick of a G27?
Officer's Match
New member
Here's another carrot towards the Glock: I ran 100 rounds thru my one of my G38's yesterday at an ammo cost of about $3 since it was wearing it's Advantage Arms 22LR top end. Too much fun!
More than likely you're going to hear about every single problem that any police agency ever encounters with a Glock.
You're not going to hear those same reports on the XDm because they aren't that many LEAs out there carrying the XDm
This thing with Portland sounds like BS to me. One thing about Police Angencies - is that everything is policitcal. Instead of admitting they were firing reloads and all the fallout that would probably come from someone not following procedure - they just blame the gun.
It's like when NJ State Police refused to spend a penny maintaining their HK P7s year after year and then when they began to malfunction they blamed H&K.
I guess the same thing could be said about the FBI with their quest to find a new handgun and cartridge after the 1986 Miami Shootout.
You're not going to hear those same reports on the XDm because they aren't that many LEAs out there carrying the XDm
This thing with Portland sounds like BS to me. One thing about Police Angencies - is that everything is policitcal. Instead of admitting they were firing reloads and all the fallout that would probably come from someone not following procedure - they just blame the gun.
It's like when NJ State Police refused to spend a penny maintaining their HK P7s year after year and then when they began to malfunction they blamed H&K.
I guess the same thing could be said about the FBI with their quest to find a new handgun and cartridge after the 1986 Miami Shootout.
Mrgunsngear
New member
Put me down for the 21SF. The gun handles recoil better than any other 45 I own, including stainless 1911s. Here's my 4000 round review:
http://gunreviewguy.blogspot.com/2012/01/g21-at-4000-rounds.html
You also put in "or" in the title. My runner up to the 21 would be the FNP45 Tactical. More expensive, but it just screams badass
Great gun as well.
tahunua001
New member
interesting that this always seems to come up in the glock vs xd arguments when:
1. what percentage of shooters really needs to train for this option.
2. of the number outlined in question 1, how many have ever had to put this into practice.
3. I have used the 1 hand rack on both of my XDM45s on multiple occasions without any difficulty.
who here has had personal experience with a wounded shooter drill with an XD or XDM? I have no problem with people toting their favorite but when internet rumors are toted as the gospel it grinds my gears.
Officer's Match
New member
Umm, and googling for Glock failures doesn't fit that criteria? Not trying to pick at you, but that seems inconsistant to me.
LOOSE HOLSTER DAN Your special forces friend has miss informed you, the 45acp is the lowest pressure round glock chambers and it is put on the g20 frame which is a much higher pressure round... 45acp = 21,000 psi, 45gap = 23,000, 9mm = 35,000 psi, 40sw = 35,000 psi, 10mm auto = 37,500 psi, 357sig = 40,000. And the 357sig is built on a 9mm platform so pressures are definetly not a problem.
LOOSE HOLSTER DAN Your special forces friend has miss informed you, the 45acp is the lowest pressure round glock chambers and it is put on the g20 frame which is a much higher pressure round... 45acp = 21,000 psi, 45gap = 23,000, 9mm = 35,000 psi, 40sw = 35,000 psi, 10mm auto = 37,500 psi, 357sig = 40,000. And the 357sig is built on a 9mm platform so pressures are definetly not a problem.
Will Beararms
New member
My quips with the XD grip safety come from first hand experience as a former XD-40 owner. It is a matter of personal preference and as such it is no knock on the gun and I did concede the XD/xdM lines are excellent in terms of quality. It just comes down to what works for me.
The PSI is only one value used to figure out how much recoil is being imparted onto the frame.
Compared to 9mm, the larger surface area of the 45 magnifies how much punishment its frame has to absorb even at lower pressures.
There are many other values that factor in - burn rate, total chamber area, and a bunch of other stuff I know nothing about, but...
As a simplistic generalization, increasing pressures and decreasing rear area values of a bullet can be looked at like this:
20000 PSI pushing on 1 square inch of area = 20000 pounds of working force.
40000 PSI pushing on 1/2 square inch of area = 20000 pounds of working force.
80000 PSI pushing on 1/4 square inch of area = 20000 pounds of working force.
Compared to 9mm, the larger surface area of the 45 magnifies how much punishment its frame has to absorb even at lower pressures.
There are many other values that factor in - burn rate, total chamber area, and a bunch of other stuff I know nothing about, but...
As a simplistic generalization, increasing pressures and decreasing rear area values of a bullet can be looked at like this:
20000 PSI pushing on 1 square inch of area = 20000 pounds of working force.
40000 PSI pushing on 1/2 square inch of area = 20000 pounds of working force.
80000 PSI pushing on 1/4 square inch of area = 20000 pounds of working force.
jeepman4804
New member
State your sources... I have only read of a handful of these failures and they all were taken care of by S&W. Only 1 that I know of cause the gun to malfunction. I have never personally seen one crack and I shoot with plenty of people with M&P's.
I personally own 4 that have been flawless. 3 of which have well over 10k rounds through them and are probably closing on 20k. The youngest of the bunch is a 45c and it had around 6.5k through it.
I own (issued) and XD45 and it was pretty good until it had about 2k through it. Then it was having all sorts of FTF (feed) issues. Ended up being the magazine springs, but I no longer trust the gun and switched to my personal as soon as I was off my 1 year probation. I also hated the trigger and the horrible muzzle flip. You can shoot an XD just as well as a Glock or M&P, but it does take more practice. The Glock and M&P's have a very low bore axis which makes for very quick follow up shots.
Between the XD and Glock I would buy a Glock. I hate the way Glocks feel in my hand and despise all the coolaid drinkers, but that is my choice between the two. If you had asked about Glock, M&P, and XD I would have said M&P hands down...