Would anyone else be interested in slimline double stack subcompacts chambered in other cartridges?

[Forte S+W]

Currently slimline double-stack subcompacts like the SIG P365, SA Hellcat, S&W M&P Shield PLUS, and Ruger Max-9 are all the rage, but personally my interest in them is limited. If I can have a gun in that size, then I'd rather it have less recoil with faster follow up shots in .380 ACP or have slightly lower capacity with more muzzle energy and better straight-line penetration throw hard barriers with .40 S&W.
Sadly, so far nobody has stepped up to plate to offer either, but I think that there's a market for both, possibly even more.

Obviously, folks who already own and are happy with their 9mm P365, Hellcat, Shield PLUS, or Max-9 aren't interested, so your feedback is irrelevant, although I'm sure I'll get it anyway because no way is Santa going anywhere without his sleigh, but I digress, is there anybody in the house who would be interested is seeing such firearms offered in alternative chamberings?

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I think offering those pistols in .380 ACP would be a no-brainer, but that's just me.

 

[HiBC]

I'll say up front,I don't have a .380. I've fired a PPK some,and I have a PA-63 in 9X18 Mak.
Its been quite a while since I've fired it.

I also have a S+W M+P 9Compact.

While not all small 380's are blowback,many are. As I recall,recoil is sharp and snappy.

If gun size and weight is similar,I think the recoil of a locked breech 9mm X 19 is no disadvantage compared to a blowback .380.

Mag capacity will be the same. There is no double stack advantage to the 380 vs 9x19.
We are in an odd supply chain time,but ordinarily,9 mm is more widely distributed.

True,there are tiny .380s that might fit a pocket better than a Shield or Glock 43.
But that does not tip the scales for me.

It would seem your question tends toward the 32's . In a 32 rimless,thats a 32ACP. I'm not interested.

Going the other direction the 38 Super like cartridges? I doubt there is much short barrel advantage. I'd not choose 38 Super for a compact.

I have zero experience with the 40 S+W.

I suppose an arguement could be made for a new cartridge..like a 21 to 25 mm length version of a 30 carbine. It might double stack a little slimmer.

Sort of a rimless 32 H+R. Maybe,I guess.

 

[Forte S+W]

Most modern .380 ACP pistols aren't straight blowback, (my Ruger LCP isn't) and obviously neither would be say an Shield PLUS in .380 ACP.

I own both a Walther PPK/S and a Ruger LCP in .380 ACP, and having shot my brother's Ruger LC9, I can safely say that pistol of similar size to a PPK/S with a locked breach has substantially less felt recoil. Even though the LC9 weighs substantially less than my PPK/S, (17oz vs 23oz) and fires a more powerful cartridge, the LC9 has substantially less felt recoil firing 115gr Federal HydraShok JHPs than my PPK/S firing 90gr Remington UMC FMJs.
Straigh blowback pistols with fixed barrels like the PPK, Makarov PM, or FEG PA-63 transfer a substantial amount of recoil back into the shooter's hand because the action is only held closed by the combined weight of the recoil spring and mass of the slide.

 

[HighValleyRanch]

Why not just use lower power 9mm ammo with a reduced recoil spring to get the same results?

 

[wild cat mccane]

I wouldn't imagine anyone with a P365 getting another in 380 or 40.

I don't see many choosing the 380 or 40 in a P365 over the 9mm.

That the P11 wasn't taken by SCCY or Ruger in 40, which has a very similar sized mag to the P365, I think you have your answer on 40.

SCCY and Ruger did copy the PF-9 Kel Tec in 380. So the LC380 Max is likely.

I think you likely will not see 40.


What will make more money than any gun ever has will be a gun like the DB9 in 9mm that is the same size of the LCP. Just needs to be from a bigger company and work. At a Magguts of 7 in a stock mag, it should give make a P365 future purchaser consider this gun over the P365.

 

[HighValleyRanch]

Well, if you can shoot the .40 in the little bitty Kahr PM40, I'm sure it will work with any of the other ones.

 

[wild cat mccane]

I did own the PM40. I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just saying a buyer base for a 40 P365 is probably not very large.

I bet a 380 P365 buyer base would be larger. Even then I bet it would be small.

 

[Siggy-06]

I think S&W and Ruger would be the most likely candidates to do a 380 version of their micro 9’s.

 

[Shadow9mm]

SMH... Ok here we go
380 and 40 are not as popular as 9mm, thus less focus from the makers
380 is considered under powered for defensive use by many. I think its ok given very careful bullet selection
9mm does better on barriers than 40 due to the smaller diameter
40 is larger than 9mm and you will lose the extra capacity advantage in the sub compact slim frames
40 recoil a good bit more than 9mm, and a lot of people would probably find it unpleasant in a sub compact frame

Also, criticizing people and calling peoples opinions irrelevant for buying and liking something. And then trying to dictate their interests is foolish at best and the response I would expect from a petulant child. You can only buy what is available, and the guns you mentioned are all good options. They may make better options in different calibers, but until then we will have to make do with what we have.

I have had 380s. 9mms, 40s. And 45s. I have shot sub compacts, compacts, and full size guns in all the above calibers and liked most of them.

380s are generally handicapped by straight blowback designs causing more recoil than similar sized 9mm guns, and poor triggers in my experience. But there is a lot if potential in the 380.
9mm is usually my choice because I have found it to be the most common and cost effective for my needs. And my 12yr old can manage the recoil.
40 is a good cartridge, but I just personally don't like it. Recoil would be stout in a slim sub compact. And based on the rounds size you would lose the capacity advantage of the slim double stacked 9s.

What I would personally be really interested is a slim micro compact in 32acp. Recoil would be very mild and it should have a nice capacity bump over 9mm.

 

[Ed4032]

Variety is the spice of life. I believe many would have both because they can.

 

[Mustang Jon]

I would love to have a 365 in 40 S&W! When the G43 came out I was hoping they would make a 40 cal. version but so far I’m still waiting. I’m glad there is someone else out there instead in a 40 sized 365. I guess I’ll settle for my G29 for right now as my little hand cannon.

 

[D-Ric902]

Hmmm.
Thinking of my old Glock 36

If there was a market interest in it, I’m sure they would make it. Maybe a Lipseys order

 

[Sarge]

40/180/975 fps is the lightest centerfire load I shoot, stock and reload for. I'd like to see more small pistols chambered for it, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[shafter]

I think interest would be pretty limited. I have no interest in anything other than 9mm in the micros with the only exception being possibly a 380 if capacity was significantly higher.

 

[Jim Watson]

How about a nice .32 with a LOT of shots on tap?
Or the European efforts at what one might call a ".32 Super" in the 7mm Penna and 7.92 VBR?

 

[dyl]

Well the trend is a firearm that's "built around the magazine", and going from double stack transitioning to single stack near the feed lips.

My mind jumps to a large EDC round like 45 ACP, and the smallest I can think of: 22LR. Whenever I flip a 1911 or Gen 3 Glock upside down and look at the magwell I think: how much of this grip space was "wasted" to provide contour/width, finger grooves, or ridges? The slabs of the 1911 grips are really just are there to take up space.

I'd be curious to see if 45ACP and 22LR mags / pistols can still be optimized further.

 

[ballardw]

How about a nice .32 with a LOT of shots on tap?
Or the European efforts at what one might call a ".32 Super" in the 7mm Penna and 7.92 VBR?

Or .25.
I recently ran across expanding the mouth on 5.7x28 to take .25 caliber bullet. Maybe too long as is but a ".25 Super" should allow a significant increase in a magazine width that holds 9mm in a double stack.

 

[Jim Watson]

The two-into-one magazine is ok in a pistol, but it was a weakness of SMGs like STEN and MP40. Thompson, Beretta, Sterling, and Uzi have alternate feeding like Mauser rifle.

Double stack magazines operate best at a particular stagger angle.
Smaller caliber is not going to add a lot unless you go to the complicated four column.

I once read that W. H. B. Smith designed a .22 auto with magazine that would hold a box of shells.

 

[Urbanrecon]

I would like to have an opportunity to compare felt recoil from a P365 .380 vs 9 mm P365 Sig. If it is as much softer as I suspect it might be, having the 15 round mag attached might be a nice setup.