Destructo6
New member
I believe gwalchmai was alluding the fact that Gold Dot can also be readily identified by the, well, gold dot at the center of the expanded bullet.
Winchester Black Talon...
- Thread starter larryf1952
- Start date
Yes it was the 93 SF shooting and the 94 pathologists report AND a howl from Trauma docs that the sharp edges cut surgical gloves that got Winchesters attention. Thats why the nasty Ranger Talon is LEO only ammo. It happens to be the most reliably effective .45acp ammo in my opinion and that has nothing to do with any sharp points! 
Danindetroit
New member
Is hydra-shok the only bullet that uses a post in the middles of the HP to try to keep the HP clear of material? They have a pretty distinct look about them, also. Sorry Like I said in a previous point I am not too bright, so the fact of a bullet being identified, or not identified, is now understood. Thank you for the help. I thought that an ammo company mad an HP with a regular looking HP, then it had like a sump about 1/3 the DIA, and just as deep, maybe another way to clear the HP? G why is the RT in .45 so effective?
Avizpls if you think they are going to work, and function well, I would worry about what happens after you come out allright.
I thought that an ammo company mad an HP with a regular looking HP, then it had like a sump about 1/3 the DIA, and just as deep, maybe another way to clear the HP? G why is the RT in .45 so effective?Avizpls if you think they are going to work, and function well, I would worry about what happens after you come out allright.
From my memory, which is still pretty decent compared to my looks and eyesight, I remember Black Talon being written up in American Rifleman or G&A back then (I knew I shoulda saved them old magazines!). The main point was the ballistic tests by the FBI showed almost double the damage than a standard hollowpoint. The pics of the ballisic gelatin were really remarkable. It was still used by the FBI after being pulled from the civilian market, I believe.
I bought HP ammo with center posts 5 or 6 years before Black Talon came out, I forget the brand name (oh great, now the memory is following the looks and eyesight!). The smith at my local shop turned me on to them.
I bought HP ammo with center posts 5 or 6 years before Black Talon came out, I forget the brand name (oh great, now the memory is following the looks and eyesight!). The smith at my local shop turned me on to them.
Danindetroit
New member
http://www.winchester.com/products/...bol=S41PTHP&cart=NDEgUmVtaW5ndG9uIE1hZ251bQ==
I believe you.
This is the pic for the .41 mag on the web site, you can see the look of the sharp petal in the cut bullet, but they don't show the cuts. I guess a pic that has 130 x 87 pixels, and only about 8 bits per pixel is no match for having the cartridge in hand. I guess this is the bullet with the deep sump too, if it even is the right bullet. This is the 2nd time a pic on the win website has been wrong.Here are some pretty good picks of the golden sabres. Does not list caliber, or weight, just HPJ, so they are not the bonded, which the FBI prbably likes for auto glass performance.
Mike Irwin
Staff
The ammo was never banned.
When I was with American Rifleman back in the early 1990s, when Black Talons came out, I had a long conversation with Winchester's PR director at the time. I told him that I thought the name was going to be a BIG liability for the company, and he more or less (more, actually) laughed at me.
It only took about 18 months for the publicity to become so bad, and so negative, that Winchester pulled the Black Talon from general circulation.
When I was with American Rifleman back in the early 1990s, when Black Talons came out, I had a long conversation with Winchester's PR director at the time. I told him that I thought the name was going to be a BIG liability for the company, and he more or less (more, actually) laughed at me.
It only took about 18 months for the publicity to become so bad, and so negative, that Winchester pulled the Black Talon from general circulation.
It's only the friendly names that keep antis from getting their knickers in a twist about the Glaser Safety Slug and MagSafe. My thought at the time was that Winchester should have gone with "Blossoming Petal Home Defense Round"...
I had a whole case of the stuff in .40 S&W that I let go when I was forced to liquidate my firearms collection back in late '95. I practically gave it away, and it makes me positively ill to see the prices folks'll pay for a box of the stuff today.
I had a whole case of the stuff in .40 S&W that I let go when I was forced to liquidate my firearms collection back in late '95. I practically gave it away, and it makes me positively ill to see the prices folks'll pay for a box of the stuff today.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"it makes me positively ill to see the prices folks'll pay for a box of the stuff today"
Fools and money are soon parted.
There's nothing particularly spectacular about the Black Talon.
The Remington Golden Saber has proven to be as effective in its ability to mushroom and hold together and also has a good reputation for effectiveness in several of its calibers.
The Speer Gold Dot is another good design that gets high marks.
BT's "whirling petals of death"? They never really proved to make that much difference in gelatin testing.
Fools and money are soon parted.
There's nothing particularly spectacular about the Black Talon.
The Remington Golden Saber has proven to be as effective in its ability to mushroom and hold together and also has a good reputation for effectiveness in several of its calibers.
The Speer Gold Dot is another good design that gets high marks.
BT's "whirling petals of death"? They never really proved to make that much difference in gelatin testing.
No kidding.
Black Talon versus early JHP's, Hornady XTP's, or HydraShoks? I'll take the Talon.
Talon versus Gold Dots or Golden Sabers? I'll climb over a pile of Talons to get to the latter two. Handgun bullets have evolved since the early '90s; even the designer of the Winchester projectile went on to design the improved Golden Saber...
FirstFreedom
Moderator
Blossoming Petal Home Defense Round
Bwaaahahaa. Maybe they should have scented it with some lovely perfume too.
Reminds me of Honda changing the name of the "Hurricane" cycle to the "CBR" back in the late 80s, in order to help its owners get a lower insurance rate.
Bwaaahahaa. Maybe they should have scented it with some lovely perfume too.
Reminds me of Honda changing the name of the "Hurricane" cycle to the "CBR" back in the late 80s, in order to help its owners get a lower insurance rate.
larryf1952
New member
Silly as it is, perception is everything...especially when you're a liberal. What might the courtroom ramifications be for a civilian who used a Talon or a Golden Sabre, et. al., in a self defense shooting? I always hear about not using handloaded JHP rounds in one's defensive weapon, but what about the high performance commercial stuff? Whether one loads Golden Sabres in their own rounds, or shoots them out of a Remington box, I'm not sure I understand the difference?
Truthfully, If it was me the bullet was intended for (and hitting), I don't care whats it's name is, or what it looks like, or what it's made of. I am sure it's gonna hurt like HE** and I want no part of it. Be it a .22 lead roundnose or a .44 JHP......thay all hurt real friggin bad(so I have heard). Can you tell I don't like pain? I figure my Hydra-shocks will get the job done, but if I mix in a few Talons in the clip I wonder if a BG could explain the difference after receiving a few of each?
and I want no part of it. Be it a .22 lead roundnose or a .44 JHP......thay all hurt real friggin bad(so I have heard). Can you tell I don't like pain? I figure my Hydra-shocks will get the job done, but if I mix in a few Talons in the clip I wonder if a BG could explain the difference after receiving a few of each?Danindetroit
New member
I still think the new "t" series is a pretty good bullet. It is an improved talon. I think they are bonded cores. The t's are really close to the gold dots in testing thru glass, expansion. The golden sabre in the regular bullet is it a bonded round, or unbounded. The pics of the unbonded, show what seems to be core/jaket seperation, this might be desirable in a ccw round, and only the police really like, or need the bonded.
Larry I think they say use good factory ammo in a carry gun, or defensive gun, because handloads are not as reliable. Most Self defense loads or going to be powerful, and well checked for quality. I have heard for shooting paper, up close, people use the least powerful accurate load, with a lead bullet, that functions the slide in a .45 to minimize recoil. In plate or other forms you probably want a different load, or the min to make your power class. I could be wrong, I have always wanted to see some of those types of shoots.
Larry I think they say use good factory ammo in a carry gun, or defensive gun, because handloads are not as reliable. Most Self defense loads or going to be powerful, and well checked for quality. I have heard for shooting paper, up close, people use the least powerful accurate load, with a lead bullet, that functions the slide in a .45 to minimize recoil. In plate or other forms you probably want a different load, or the min to make your power class. I could be wrong, I have always wanted to see some of those types of shoots.
six 4 sure
New member
I've got a box of 9mm somewhere.