WIN!! Bateman v. Perdue: N.C. Emergency Powers Ban

[Fishing_Cabin]

thoughts

Just a thought, since parts of King NC are in both Stokes and Forsyth County, why is only Stokes being sued and not Forsyth?

 

[Tom Servo]

Shouldn't a crime that is severe enough to warrant the permanent loss of fundamental rights be a felony?

Perhaps not always even then.

Consider: a guy falls on hard times. He kites a few checks. They add up to just enough of an amount to qualify as a felony. The guy gets convicted and does his time. Once released, he is a law-abiding model citizen.

Does he deserve to be stripped of certain civil rights for the rest of his life? Should he be treated the same as a violent predator? These are questions we've yet to adequately answer.

Regarding the Lautenberg amdnement, we suffered a loss. Basically, the 7th Circuit chose to find the law constitutional on grounds that look suspiciously like interest-balancing. The 4th could decide to act in the same way, arguing that the government's interest in maintaining order during a crisis is "compelling."

(I wonder if attacking the Lautenberg amendment head on might have been a bad idea, given that it's harder to generate sympathy for a plaintiff in such situations.)

 

[gc70]

The 4th could decide to act in the same way, arguing that the government's interest in maintaining order during a crisis is "compelling."

It might be a bit more difficult for the government to claim an interest in maintaining order when, by statute, the government has admitted to being "unable to maintain public order or afford adequate protection for lives or property." I suspect that may be a factor in the choice of the North Carolina law as Gura's next target.

 

[blume357]

Are you sure about that sixgun67?

that's now how I understood it.

I have a residence in N.C. and would be willing to exercise my rights to buy and sell in NC with private sales if not for how I understand the state law....

 

[gc70]

From the NC Attorney General's booklet on firearms laws (page #4):

This requirement to obtain a permit prior to the transfer of a pistol applies not only to a commercial transaction, typically at a sporting goods store, but also between private individuals or companies throughout North Carolina. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-402(a)

 

[DG45]

There's a lot of corruption in North Carolina government but any Southern state that still elects Democrats is going to be portrayed as "progressive" by the liberal media, no matter what. The states gun laws don't look too onerous on paper, but there are some problems. Citizens have to apply to their county sheriff for their CCW permit, and its a pretty expensive item. Afterward, the citizen has no control over how long it takes that county sheriff to get his paperwork in to the state bureau of investigation, who must check the citizen out before the permit will be approved. If and when the citizen passes the SBI check, the state doesn't send a CCW permit directly to the citizen, it sends an ok to issue a permit back to the county sheriff, where, once again, the citizen has no control over how long it takes to get that permit back to him/her. As a result, in this age of instantaneous electronic communication, the CCW procedure in North Carolina can literally take up to four months. Of course, there may be a way to cut through the red tape. I've heard that soon after you apply for your CCW permit or a renewal of it in North Carolina, you get a letter from the sheriffs re-election committee requesting a contribution.

 

[andrewstorm]

law soot

n.c. is pro gun as you can get,you can open carry anywhere ,even in your car.without a permit,you can purchase a handgun from an individual in most countys,charlotte has bad crime,west coast style gangs,and has purchase permits,to buy pistols,good ol boys selectively enforce gun laws on a us and them basis,most places down east they all carry hogleggers,for snakes n rats n such,on several occations in my younger days the sherrrif searched my truck and returned my pistol unloaded,and informed me to keep it on the seat in plain view,he could of messed up my whole day if he was an anti

 

[SVO]

As for carrying during a declared emergency, one only needs to look at New Orleans in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. There were cases there where the LEO's entered private property to disarm citizens who were threating no one by being armed.

 

[sixgun67]

blume357, if I am wrong on this one, then I know first hand of quite a few that are up a creek, so to speak.


**Just called a local gunshop that I deal with a good bit and one of the owners (trustworthy man and has excellent reputation in this area) explained that, by strict word of law, Yes a permit is required. But, in this area, a bill of sale identifying both parties and make model serial and such of gun will suffice, to keep seller out of hot water.**

No offense to any members here, but this is a man that I trust also.


DG45, I've got my CCW and haven't received any 'donations wanted' calls. Maybe these were coincidences that timed well with the renewals? I hope so. My county sheriff's office certainly leaves a lot to be desired. They will not be getting money from me.

 

[celtgun]

NC Gun Law

A permit or valid CWP is required to purchase any handgun in NC, FFL or private sale. I do not care what your local gun store says, your are in violation of state and federal law if you don't have one or the other. Explain it to BATFE or the SBI, Oops, you can't.
The permit to purchase came about as an anti union move to prevent labor from arming itself during the struggle ro orgaize textile plants. Or so I have read several places.
The whole system is a pain, the real problem being that your are dealing with the goverment. Many sheriff's office employees are political hacks, in some counties. Some departments are very pro-gun. All depends on the high sheriff, and you get what is elected. Sometimes good, sometimes bad.


Pray and Shoot Daily.
Lee Jones(Celtgun)

We do not have government by the majority; rather; we have government by the majority who participate. Thomas Jefferson

 

[sixgun67]

celtgun, that's fair enough. I would then ask how is an individual to know, after calling an 'authority' (which is what I at least would reasonably assume a licensed dealer to be) for an answer to this question, that the said authority is giving false info?

Myself, I don't worry. I use my CCW. But, how would the general non-licensed populace know?

 

[Aguila Blanca]

celtgun, that's fair enough. I would then ask how is an individual to know, after calling an 'authority' (which is what I at least would reasonably assume a licensed dealer to be) for an answer to this question, that the said authority is giving false info?

Myself, I don't worry. I use my CCW. But, how would the general non-licensed populace know?

I guess I would wonder why you would consider a shop keeper an expert on law. Your dealer guy didn't give you "false" information. I'm sure he thought it was correct. He gave you "incorrect" information ... because he's a shop owner, not a lawyer. The same applies to police officers. One might assume that they know the laws they are supposed to enforce ... but they don't.

A number of years ago I was dating a woman whose nephew is a police officer. Her son-in-law is a private detective who has a CHL and often carries when working ... but he NEVER practices. We talked about going to the range with him, and at the time I had not gotten my CHL. We encountered nephew LEO at a 4th of July family BBQ, so I asked him if it was okay for me (with no CHL) to take a pistol from home to the range to practice with [name]. He said, "Sure ... no problem."

Good thing I didn't get around to taking [name] to the range, because what nephew LEO told me was flat-out WRONG. In my state, it's a felony offense to carry a handgun, even unloaded, outside the house (even on my own property) without a CHL. The only exceptions are transporting (not "carrying") from the shop where bought or to a shop to sell; to a gunsmith for repair; or to or from MY (not my employer's) place of business.

Laws are typically not written to be clear to laymen. It ensures a need for lawyers. And it works -- if you want to know what the law says, ask a lawyer, not a shop keeper. (Or a cop.)

 

[wmreid]

Just for your info, the "State of Emergency" statutes in here in NC were passed after the MLK riots in 60's. Laws prohibiting firearms in or near a "riot" were also passed at the sametime. So that's the frame of mind the legislatur was in when the law was passed.

Purdue has tried to say that her declaration of emergency for some hurricane did not include any prohibitation on the transportation of firearms & ammo. However, a simple reading of the declaration shows that the law containing the prohibitation was specificially included. Also, the NC criminal statutes REQUIRE the prohibitation when a declaration of emergency is issued. The Governor, the Mayor (in King) and the Chairman of the County Commission of the county being sued could not exempt the prohibitation on carrying firearms & ammo - they don't have the option.

So, even though that hurricane came no where close to the western NC mountains where I live, I could not transport my firearms legally while that declaration was in effect. To top it off, the declaration was issued just before opening day for dove season but I believe it was lifted in time.

 

[wally626]

Good thing I didn't get around to taking [name] to the range, because what nephew LEO told me was flat-out WRONG. In my state, it's a felony offense to carry a handgun, even unloaded, outside the house (even on my own property) without a CHL. The only exceptions are transporting (not "carrying") from the shop where bought or to a shop to sell; to a gunsmith for repair; or to or from MY (not my employer's) place of business.

I will not say your state does not allow it, not knowing your state, but very few states, I know of, prohibit you transporting a lawfully owned gun to a range. Usually it falls under the same exceptions you list above about shops and gunsmiths, hunting. In many states it would have to be cased and locked in a trunk or similar arrangement and would have to be cased when carrying to the car.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I will not say your state does not allow it, not knowing your state, but very few states, I know of, prohibit you transporting a lawfully owned gun to a range. Usually it falls under the same exceptions you list above about shops and gunsmiths, hunting. In many states it would have to be cased and locked in a trunk or similar arrangement and would have to be cased when carrying to the car.

I respectfully suggest that you may be extrapolating. I know with absolute, 100 percent certainty what my state law says, because I looked it up and I keep a copy next to my desk. And I also know (but with less than 100 percent certainty) that my state is not the only state to limit where you are allowed to transport a firearm. I suspect if you were to review the laws of all fifty states, you would find that there are a lot fewer than you think that allow transport to and from a range without a license. Remember, we're talking about handguns. Some states are less restrictive with regard to long guns.

What I wrote was exactly correct -- if a resident of this state sets foot outside his/her own house with a handgun, and doesn't have a permit, they are committing a felony offense. The only exception is transport to and from a range for participation in an organized competition, or for formal training.

 

[tet4]

In states like that, how do you get the hand gun from the store to your house when you buy it? (I'm honestly curious because I've always wondered how that works).

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

I suspect if you were to review the laws of all fifty states, you would find that there are a lot fewer than you think that allow transport to and from a range without a license. Remember, we're talking about handguns. Some states are less restrictive with regard to long guns.

What I wrote was exactly correct -- if a resident of this state sets foot outside his/her own house with a handgun, and doesn't have a permit, they are committing a felony offense. The only exception is transport to and from a range for participation in an organized competition, or for formal training.

I get the impression that in a majority of states, being in possession of a handgun in ANY location without having a permit would be a felony offense, possibly with the exceptions that you list.

In states like that, how do you get the hand gun from the store to your house when you buy it? (I'm honestly curious because I've always wondered how that works).

There are situations where it is not technically legal to do so. NY state issues (rarely) a "premises" permit for handguns. That permit only allows for legal possession of the handgun at the EXACT location listed on the permit and absolutely NO WHERE ELSE. It is technically against the law to transport the handgun from the dealer where it was purchased to premises listed. I have been told so by DAs, lawyers and judges.

Fortunately, at least in this area, those permits are virtually never issued and virtually anyone can at least get a hunting/recreation permit and almost everyone can get concealed carry and, when those permits are issued, everyone involved understands that there must be SOME way of getting the gun home, so the technicality that the law does not provide for such a method is ignored by all involved.

 

[wally626]

As I said I do not know what state you are in Aguila Blanca, but your state, as you said, does have an exception for shooting ranges but it is more restrictive than my state of VA. VAs is listed below:

3. Any regularly enrolled member of a target shooting organization who is at, or going to or from, an established shooting range, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

Note: this applies only to concealed carry, open carry is fine. I may pick a few states at random to check, but I expect there is a range exemption for transport of weapons in most states for those otherwise legally able to posses them. Some, like your state may only apply to official ranges and organized events.

 

[raimius]

Wouldn't the FOPA have some relevance to transporting legally owned firearms from one legal location to another?

 

[Al Norris]

Gentlemen, isn't this a little off topic for this particular thread? Did I miss something?