Win 231 in 44 mag from Lee molds?

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With recommended "trim to" length brass, the two crimp grooves should result in COAL of:
1.610" and 1.690".

1.610" is the listed max loaded length of the .44Mag. That length should work in all guns.

1.690" may not. IF it fits in your revolver's cylinder, fine. Marlins are notorious for not liking overlong loads, and too long will jam the rifle trying to feed from the tube to the chamber. Even 336s.

If your Ruger .44 carbine is the semi auto one, cast bullets (any size) are a bad idea. Lead and bullet lube can clog the gas system. Stick with jacketed bullets in those rifles. Additionally, the early Ruger carbines had a reputation for not shooting anything but 240gr bullets accurately.

W231 is a powder for "popper" loads in .44Mag. which is fine, since that's what you're looking for. HOWEVER, pay CAREFUL attention to the powder charge, with the amount of 231 used, a double charge will fit in the .44 case (and with some room to spare, so its not obvious, and you need to LOOK carefully at every case charged. A double charge of 231 WILL damage (and usually explode) the gun!!!

 

[Dead-Nuts-Zero]

Thanks Unclenick
I learned a lot from your reply (what is a Bear Tooth & LBT design etc.) & appreciate the sources you listed & your thoughts on applying data to my chosen bullets. I will begin with my Ruger revolver and if all goes well will attempt loading for my rifles.

QuickLOAD shows your Lee 310-grain RF to be just 0.756" long (check that)

My Lee 310 gr. with powder coat are .824" & the Lee 240 gr. powder coated are .740".



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If your Ruger .44 carbine is the semi auto one, cast bullets (any size) are a bad idea. Lead and bullet lube can clog the gas system. Stick with jacketed bullets in those rifles.

Yes, it's the semi-auto carbine. I've had other comments & also read that this is not a desirable candidate for lead, however I'm powder coating my bullets, thinking this should avoid the cast lead/lube concerns. If anyone has tried powder coated bullets in the Ruger carbine, would appreciate hearing about your results.



big al hunter

If you don't already have a copy, I recommend the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. It has a fair amount of data for many cartridges.

Yes, I have it, I have referred to it several times when I first began melting & casting a year or two ago & still use it. Was surprised to see Lee cast bullets mentioned on occasion in this book. And many thanks for your comments throughout this thread.


Thanks to ALL who have commented. With my limited casting experience, it's great having TFL folks to assist me!
Unfortunately, I don't think I will have time to work up a load & get a chance to test fire until the end of the month. If anyone has any additional comments, I look forward to your thoughts.

 

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Quote:
If your Ruger .44 carbine is the semi auto one, cast bullets (any size) are a bad idea. Lead and bullet lube can clog the gas system. Stick with jacketed bullets in those rifles.
Yes, it's the semi-auto carbine. I've had other comments & also read that this is not a desirable candidate for lead, however I'm powder coating my bullets, thinking this should avoid the cast lead/lube concerns. If anyone has tried powder coated bullets in the Ruger carbine, would appreciate hearing about your results.

Powder coated bullets MAY avoid the issue with the gas system, I don't know. But there are a couple other points you need to consider.

First is round length and bullet profile. Second is the load level (pressure curve).

The Ruger carbine, like most other gas operated rifles is built to run a specific and fairly narrow range of ammo. AND, that is full power factory jacketed 240gr stuff.

The 310gr bullets you want to use simply may not feed through the mechanism. And, 231 powder may not operate the action the way it is meant to run.

It's a matter of force/time, not just force. Consider this, a heavy steel door, such as on a safe. PUSH the door, it swings closed smoothly. SLAP the door, and even if the amount of force is the same, the result will not be.

Of course, its a matter of degree, and the devil is in the details, but generally speaking, a fast powder like 231 is more slap than push.

 

[Unclenick]

D-N-Z,

Thanks. I thought the QL length for the Lee was too short to be likely. It's an error on their part.

 

[SHR970]

The Ruger carbine, like most other gas operated rifles is built to run a specific and fairly narrow range of ammo. AND, that is full power factory jacketed 240gr stuff.

and

It's a matter of force/time, not just force.

Spot on... the Ruger DeerStalker Semi Autos are loosely based off of the M1 Carbine. If you do not use the correct powders for pressure curve they do not cycle properly. Older reloading manuals have references to this. W231 does not fit the bill nor do any other powders in this burn speed category. 2400, H2447, W296/H110, AA#9 are appropriate speeds to cycle the action. Even then they are intended to run on the hotter side of things for reliable cycling.

Edit to add: If need be I will utilize Fair Use Doctrine with full attribution to back up my statement.

 

[T. O'Heir]

Who made the mold makes no difference. The shape of the bullet may give you feeding issues in any Carbine. Mind you, if you don't have one already, you have a reason to go buy a .44 Mag revolver.
You need cast bullet .44 Mag data.
Hodgdon's site doesn't show 231 as being tested for .44 Mag rifle data. No big cast bullets for handguns either.