Will the "NRA will work out of the White House" speech hurt Bush?
- Thread starter Battler
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Yup, probably a little. It was a stupid thing for the NRA to say.
I noticed that neither NBC or CBS mentioned that the HCI commercial claimed that the Withe House was "our house" not the everbodys or the peoples, but "our".
Both of them made a big to do about how much the NRA was contributing. Well, duh, Gore is in the back pocket of HCI.
I noticed that neither NBC or CBS mentioned that the HCI commercial claimed that the Withe House was "our house" not the everbodys or the peoples, but "our".
Both of them made a big to do about how much the NRA was contributing. Well, duh, Gore is in the back pocket of HCI.
Well, the antis aren't losing any time. Note reuters erzatz "90-a-day" number.
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000504/pl/campaign_bush_162.html
Gun Control Group Launches Ad Campaign Against Bush
By Sue Pleming
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In a major effort to turn U.S. voters against Republican presidential candidate George W. Bush (news - web sites), gun control advocates launched an ad campaign on Thursday that shows the gun lobby saying it would ``work out of'' the Oval Office if Bush wins.
The television ad, unveiled at a news conference by Handgun Control Inc., shows NRA First Vice President Kayne Robinson telling members in California in February that the group enjoyed ``unbelievably friendly relations'' with the Texas governor.
``If we win, we'll have a president, with at least one of the people that's running, a president where we work out of their office. Unbelievably friendly relations,'' Robinson says in a clip from an NRA video used in the Handgun Control ad.
A spokesman for the Bush campaign, Scott McClellan, denied that the Republican candidate was close to the NRA or that it would set his agenda if he wins the election.
``Gov. Bush sets his own agenda. He has made his priorities very clear. He wants tough anti-crime laws, more prosecutors to enforce existing laws and instant background checks at gun shows to keep guns out of the hands of juveniles and criminals,'' McClellan said in a telephone interview.
Handgun Control, which advocates tougher gun laws in the United States, said it hoped the ads would make voters aware of George Bush's ``gun record'' in his home state and instead choose the Democratic candidate, Vice President Al Gore (news - web sites), in November.
In a country where 90 people die every day due to gun violence -- 12 of whom are children -- guns are a major campaign issue for the leading candidates.
``We want to make sure people look at the Bush record on firearms. This is a record that only the gun lobby could love, but for most Americans it's pretty scary,'' said James Brady, the former White House press secretary who was critically wounded in an attack on President Ronald Reagan on March 30, 1981.
Brady, who with his wife Sarah founded Handgun Control and is one of the country's leading anti-gun crusaders, said the NRA meeting addressed by Robinson in February provided a real insight into what the group thought of Bush.
Robinson, who spoke to reporters straight after the Handgun Control news conference, said it was ``no secret'' the NRA supported George W. Bush in his presidential bid.
Asked about his remarks that the NRA would be working out of a Republican president's office, Robinson said this was no different to what Handgun Control had done in the Clinton era.
``Handgun Control and the anti-gun people have had literally unlimited access to the White House,'' said Robinson.
``We have been on the outside of the fence looking in. None of our statistics have ever been considered ... yet it's seen as shocking when Gov. Bush agrees to consider our point of view, along with others,'' he said.
White House spokesman Joe Lockhart said the NRA had been ''candid and honest'' in its comments about Bush and his relationship with the NRA.
``Again, it is quite rare and somewhat remarkable when the NRA says something that we agree with, but in this case, you know, I think they are speaking the truth,'' Lockhart told reporters.
Talks, backed by the Clinton administration, aimed at settling a lawsuit against the gun industry by a group of local governments broke off in January. Industry representatives said on Thursday they saw little prospect of resuming them.
``It's just unfortunate that because of positions that the governor has taken, we have people like the gun manufacturers willing to walk away because they will take their chances on someone who doesn't have a commitment to sensible gun safety legislation and sensible actions,'' Lockhart said.
Highlighting Bush's voting record in Texas, the chief lobbyist for the group Texans Against Gun Violence said Bush had consistently supported the NRA in his state.
``Gov. Bush has been a dream come true for the NRA. He has carried their bowl, he has carried their water. If the NRA wanted a law passed in Texas, Governor Bush made sure that it happened from the very beginning,'' said Texan lobbyist Nina Butts.
Robinson described the 2000 race for the White House in the video as ``a critical election'' in which Bush's success would ensure ``a Supreme Court that will back us to the hilt.''
``There will be four, maybe five justices of the Supreme Court appointed in the first term of the next president ... If Gore is the president, every one of those people will be rabidly anti-gun,'' Robinson said.
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The New World Order has a Third Reich odor.
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000504/pl/campaign_bush_162.html
Gun Control Group Launches Ad Campaign Against Bush
By Sue Pleming
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In a major effort to turn U.S. voters against Republican presidential candidate George W. Bush (news - web sites), gun control advocates launched an ad campaign on Thursday that shows the gun lobby saying it would ``work out of'' the Oval Office if Bush wins.
The television ad, unveiled at a news conference by Handgun Control Inc., shows NRA First Vice President Kayne Robinson telling members in California in February that the group enjoyed ``unbelievably friendly relations'' with the Texas governor.
``If we win, we'll have a president, with at least one of the people that's running, a president where we work out of their office. Unbelievably friendly relations,'' Robinson says in a clip from an NRA video used in the Handgun Control ad.
A spokesman for the Bush campaign, Scott McClellan, denied that the Republican candidate was close to the NRA or that it would set his agenda if he wins the election.
``Gov. Bush sets his own agenda. He has made his priorities very clear. He wants tough anti-crime laws, more prosecutors to enforce existing laws and instant background checks at gun shows to keep guns out of the hands of juveniles and criminals,'' McClellan said in a telephone interview.
Handgun Control, which advocates tougher gun laws in the United States, said it hoped the ads would make voters aware of George Bush's ``gun record'' in his home state and instead choose the Democratic candidate, Vice President Al Gore (news - web sites), in November.
In a country where 90 people die every day due to gun violence -- 12 of whom are children -- guns are a major campaign issue for the leading candidates.
``We want to make sure people look at the Bush record on firearms. This is a record that only the gun lobby could love, but for most Americans it's pretty scary,'' said James Brady, the former White House press secretary who was critically wounded in an attack on President Ronald Reagan on March 30, 1981.
Brady, who with his wife Sarah founded Handgun Control and is one of the country's leading anti-gun crusaders, said the NRA meeting addressed by Robinson in February provided a real insight into what the group thought of Bush.
Robinson, who spoke to reporters straight after the Handgun Control news conference, said it was ``no secret'' the NRA supported George W. Bush in his presidential bid.
Asked about his remarks that the NRA would be working out of a Republican president's office, Robinson said this was no different to what Handgun Control had done in the Clinton era.
``Handgun Control and the anti-gun people have had literally unlimited access to the White House,'' said Robinson.
``We have been on the outside of the fence looking in. None of our statistics have ever been considered ... yet it's seen as shocking when Gov. Bush agrees to consider our point of view, along with others,'' he said.
White House spokesman Joe Lockhart said the NRA had been ''candid and honest'' in its comments about Bush and his relationship with the NRA.
``Again, it is quite rare and somewhat remarkable when the NRA says something that we agree with, but in this case, you know, I think they are speaking the truth,'' Lockhart told reporters.
Talks, backed by the Clinton administration, aimed at settling a lawsuit against the gun industry by a group of local governments broke off in January. Industry representatives said on Thursday they saw little prospect of resuming them.
``It's just unfortunate that because of positions that the governor has taken, we have people like the gun manufacturers willing to walk away because they will take their chances on someone who doesn't have a commitment to sensible gun safety legislation and sensible actions,'' Lockhart said.
Highlighting Bush's voting record in Texas, the chief lobbyist for the group Texans Against Gun Violence said Bush had consistently supported the NRA in his state.
``Gov. Bush has been a dream come true for the NRA. He has carried their bowl, he has carried their water. If the NRA wanted a law passed in Texas, Governor Bush made sure that it happened from the very beginning,'' said Texan lobbyist Nina Butts.
Robinson described the 2000 race for the White House in the video as ``a critical election'' in which Bush's success would ensure ``a Supreme Court that will back us to the hilt.''
``There will be four, maybe five justices of the Supreme Court appointed in the first term of the next president ... If Gore is the president, every one of those people will be rabidly anti-gun,'' Robinson said.
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The New World Order has a Third Reich odor.
Libertarian
New member
*Sigh* One step forward and two steps back. Why do we keep shooting ourselves in the foot like this? The NRA did great when they lit into Clinton and stuck by the assertons. Now they screw up and hurt our last best hope for the first decade of the 21st century. It makes me wonder if they have proper ventalation over at HQ?
IDIOTS! I don't pay my dues to an organization so that they can shoot their mouths off and give the antis more ammo for their ads. They will hear about this one from me for sure! Not that they care, they will probably just remind me that my dues are almost due again. And of course the media will make damn sure that this gets around.------------------
Until the antis put a sign in their front yard that says they don't own guns, they are riding on the shirt-tail of the safety that we provide by owning them.
Stupid comment to be making in a public forum. I am not sure it will hurt for the following reasons:
1)Not a good idea to go down that road. Lots of organizations make claims of that type. Its just that no other organization wanted to make hay with it. Now that the anti-2's broke ice, other orgs like the NRA can do likewise.
2)Estimates of 80 million gun owners in the US exist. Let's just assume 5% paid attention to what was said and a light bulb came on. I have no doubt there are numerous gunowners who are tired of being demonized. Now we have an additional 4 million gunowners aware of the situation. Now let's assume 50% vote. That is an additional 2 million voters to throw into a campaign.
The Second Amendment will be at issue in this year's election. The more desperate Gore/Democrats get the more hysterical will be a campaign. Fear is a great tool.
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Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.
Barry Goldwater--1964
1)Not a good idea to go down that road. Lots of organizations make claims of that type. Its just that no other organization wanted to make hay with it. Now that the anti-2's broke ice, other orgs like the NRA can do likewise.
2)Estimates of 80 million gun owners in the US exist. Let's just assume 5% paid attention to what was said and a light bulb came on. I have no doubt there are numerous gunowners who are tired of being demonized. Now we have an additional 4 million gunowners aware of the situation. Now let's assume 50% vote. That is an additional 2 million voters to throw into a campaign.
The Second Amendment will be at issue in this year's election. The more desperate Gore/Democrats get the more hysterical will be a campaign. Fear is a great tool.
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Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.
Barry Goldwater--1964
It was an unfortunate comment, but I don't believe it will have any lasting deterimental effect.
It's never been a secret the the NRA (and just about every other pro-gun org.) favors Bush over Gore. I agree with Waitone, the more the anti's hammer on Bush for his ties to the NRA, the more likely we are to see more fence sitting gun owners get out and vote.
It's never been a secret the the NRA (and just about every other pro-gun org.) favors Bush over Gore. I agree with Waitone, the more the anti's hammer on Bush for his ties to the NRA, the more likely we are to see more fence sitting gun owners get out and vote.
Brett Bellmore
New member
Karanas: Well, it WILL hurt Bush if he get's too vocal about repudiating it!
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Sic semper tyrannis!
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Sic semper tyrannis!
I doubt it will hurt. This is an issue with very few fence sitters. Admittedly some on the other side are only there due to miss information, or lack of education on the topic, they were already against guns already, and this will not change who they were going to vote for(if they vote at all.) As for pro gun people, again on our side already, not likely to go anti on us for some anti gun hype.
TheBluesMan
Moderator Emeritus
I'm worried that Bush will want to straddle this issue and appear to be a 'moderate.' If so, then he'll definitely repudiate this remark.
Of course, even if he rips the NRA for making such a statement, most of their membership will still vote for him.
All in all I don't think that this will really affect his standings in the polls too much.
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RKBA!
"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security"
Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4 Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio.
Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website
Of course, even if he rips the NRA for making such a statement, most of their membership will still vote for him.
All in all I don't think that this will really affect his standings in the polls too much.
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RKBA!
"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security"
Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4 Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio.
Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website
Slowpoke_Rodrigo
New member
Mr. Robinson and I move in some of the same circles - DMPD, IA Repubs, IA Sportsmen, NRA - though we have not been formally introduced. In his defense, he rarely commits such regrettable indiscretions.
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Slowpoke Rodrigo...he pack a gon...
I voted for the Neal Knox 13
I'll see you at the TFL End Of Summer Meet!
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Slowpoke Rodrigo...he pack a gon...
I voted for the Neal Knox 13
I'll see you at the TFL End Of Summer Meet!
Wayne LaPierre was on "Hardball" last night to respond to this, and he did a good job.
Matthews asked Wayne where the video came from, and Wayne said he didn't know. It didn't look very professional, so the cameraman could have been an HCI plant. Matthews was hitting Wayne with some very hard and fast questions, and Wayne answered them well. He said that for the last eight years this administration has not been a friend to those who own guns for hunting, target shooting and self-defense. Matthews hit him with a question about why the NRA supports only Republicans, and Wayne listed a couple of exceptions (Dingell), then went on to say that the Democratic party at the national level pretty much marches in lockstep with HCI, but at the local level the NRA supports many Democrats. All in all, a pretty good performance. I'd give it two thumbs up .
Dick
Matthews asked Wayne where the video came from, and Wayne said he didn't know. It didn't look very professional, so the cameraman could have been an HCI plant. Matthews was hitting Wayne with some very hard and fast questions, and Wayne answered them well. He said that for the last eight years this administration has not been a friend to those who own guns for hunting, target shooting and self-defense. Matthews hit him with a question about why the NRA supports only Republicans, and Wayne listed a couple of exceptions (Dingell), then went on to say that the Democratic party at the national level pretty much marches in lockstep with HCI, but at the local level the NRA supports many Democrats. All in all, a pretty good performance. I'd give it two thumbs up
.Dick
Gary L. Griffiths
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brett Bellmore:
Karanas: Well, it WILL hurt Bush if he get's too vocal about repudiating it!
[/quote]
Bush will almost have to take some steps towards repudiating the NRA's idiotic remarks. Let's keep the big picture in mind. Even if we don't like everything he says, consider the alternative...
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Gary L. Griffiths
Chief Instructor
Advanced Force Tactics, Inc.
Karanas: Well, it WILL hurt Bush if he get's too vocal about repudiating it!
[/quote]
Bush will almost have to take some steps towards repudiating the NRA's idiotic remarks. Let's keep the big picture in mind. Even if we don't like everything he says, consider the alternative...
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Gary L. Griffiths
Chief Instructor
Advanced Force Tactics, Inc.
Unfortunately, I think Bush will shoot himself if there is ANY televised debate on anything. He IS dumb. And he can't disguise it. He even LOOKS dumb. And now the NRA SOUNDS dumb.
Our side needs help. BADLY.
I am almost certain that Gore may as well polish up his acceptance speech.
I don't think I will ever have another candidate to vote FOR. Goldwater was the last.
Wotta sorry bunch.
Our side needs help. BADLY.
I am almost certain that Gore may as well polish up his acceptance speech.
I don't think I will ever have another candidate to vote FOR. Goldwater was the last.
Wotta sorry bunch.
We have a bad vs worse situation, here. Bush Sr. was an elitist, and passed the first of the recent infamous Federal laws. I expect little better than his son. Perhaps the best thing we could hope for is Al Gore in the office, pushing for way too much, too soon, and the heaviest political pendulum swing in the last 50 years. If I were a praying man, I'd be on my knees.
I think it's not unduly optimistic to think
this may actually work in our favor. In any
"rights" issue,be it abortion or guns or
whatever, "pro-rights" will always be more
aggresive about voting than "anti-rights".
That's assuming that the numbers are about
equal to begin with. After the big Republican
victory in '94, The McNeil-Lehrer Report
reported that exit polls showed that %35 of
those that voted Republican did so because
of RKBA concerns. That's a huge number of
single issue voters! And that was in response
to the lame "assault weapons ban" which had
very little real impact (bought a Rumanian
pistol-grip AK w/30-rd. mag last week) on
the vast majority of gun owners. The problem
with gun owners (and forgive me if I'm
stereotyping-this is just what I've observed)
is that many are young, working-class males
who don't vote as a rule because they don't
give a rat's ass about %95 of the issues so
many other people get impassioned about. But,
let the media beat the anti-gun horse enough
and the message begins to get across to even
the most indifferent gun owner that their
rights are threatened and they get out and
vote. Couldn't back this with statistics
but in the past Democrats have usually not
stressed gun-control too much in ELECTION
years. This year they can't shut up about
it and I think they're going to end up
shooting themselves in the foot. IF you all
get out and vote!
this may actually work in our favor. In any
"rights" issue,be it abortion or guns or
whatever, "pro-rights" will always be more
aggresive about voting than "anti-rights".
That's assuming that the numbers are about
equal to begin with. After the big Republican
victory in '94, The McNeil-Lehrer Report
reported that exit polls showed that %35 of
those that voted Republican did so because
of RKBA concerns. That's a huge number of
single issue voters! And that was in response
to the lame "assault weapons ban" which had
very little real impact (bought a Rumanian
pistol-grip AK w/30-rd. mag last week) on
the vast majority of gun owners. The problem
with gun owners (and forgive me if I'm
stereotyping-this is just what I've observed)
is that many are young, working-class males
who don't vote as a rule because they don't
give a rat's ass about %95 of the issues so
many other people get impassioned about. But,
let the media beat the anti-gun horse enough
and the message begins to get across to even
the most indifferent gun owner that their
rights are threatened and they get out and
vote. Couldn't back this with statistics
but in the past Democrats have usually not
stressed gun-control too much in ELECTION
years. This year they can't shut up about
it and I think they're going to end up
shooting themselves in the foot. IF you all
get out and vote!
While the handgun issue is an important one, it is one issue. We in the gun community must look past our single issue, as important as it is, and come to the realization that George Bush is a ridiculous choice for the Republican Party to put forth as a presidential candidate. And I'm from deep in the heart of Texas! If this guy's name wasn't Bush, the public wouldn't even give him the time of day. He has very poor credentials as a presidential candidate. John McCain should be the man at the front of the pack! Bush was a very poor businessman, served one term as governor of our great state and has been spending his second term learning how to run for president. Actually, in the "weak-governor" form of government that we have here, Bush is actually the fifth most powerful person in Texas! And he's accomplished next to nothing with the short time he's had! This is a nothing individual. Even Gore has a better understanding of the issues and a stronger intellect than George Jr.! While I don't agree with the Veep on some issues--guns being a big one--he's a much stronger alternative than the only one the Republican Party has mindlessly fallen in love with. Where are the statesmen (or stateswomen)? We can do a hell of a lot better! Let's look at the big picture in the gun community!
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"I love to do things that scare me, for without fear there is no courage."
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"I love to do things that scare me, for without fear there is no courage."
If Bush is my only other choice, then it's a no-brainer. Gore will be my vote. I know the gun control people inside the camp, and I'd rather be a pro-gun rights voice inside working to delute their efforts on that single issue, rather than having a true no-brainer like George Junior stumbling through the White House. Governor Shrub is not qualified, he's an elitist, doesn't care about the issues, and is not very intelligent to boot. What has this guy really done? What's on his resume? All his attempts to run businesses failed, other than making money on the back of his investor, he's a do-nothing powerless governor. "Reformer With Results", my ass. What a slap in the face to ordinary people like you and me! An empty slogan. You know, Bush is as far from a populist or reformer as you can get, don't feel like you have to support him just for his views on one issue. I'm the first guy to be thankful he supported the conceal carry ability in Texas. I'm benefiting from it! But that guy is truly a tool of the big money people. Not that Gore is clean on that, but Bush's history makes Gore look like an amateur when it comes to being in the pocket of big money. He's an old time oil-and-gas-make-money-on-other-people's-sweat guy. And even worse, if he gets into the White House, he'll be beholden to those extremist right-wing Christian crack-pots who want to dictate how you an I live our lives. They don't want big government (and neither do I), but only so they can fill the space with their way of doing things! A long answer to your short question, but I just don't want we noble gun-rights patriots to fall victim to the "one-issue syndrome". We should be smarter than that, and demand more from our political leadership! We are not one-note cowboys out here, we need to look at all the real issues and see through the rhetoric of those that just want to throw us a bone! Okay, sorry, I'll take a breath now.....
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"I love to do things that scare me, for without fear there is no courage."
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"I love to do things that scare me, for without fear there is no courage."
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