Will Many Here be Voting for Ron Paul or Bob Barr?

[FireMax]

musketeer
Some just cannot get over McCain winning the nomination.

.... because he is a liberal and liberals do not belong in a traditionally conservative republican party. So, don't blame the conservatives who don't like mccain. We haven't liked him for over 8 years.... this sentiment we have is not new. It was not conservatives who gave him primary wins... it was liberals and independents. mccain is not a conservative. He will not govern as a conservative and no conservative should vote for him, especially since there is a "real" conservative in the race named Bob Barr.

zuikphile
McCain is a liberal the same way that assertion is complete, thoughtful and accurate.

I am glad that you agree.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

He will not govern as a conservative and no conservative should vote for him, especially since there is a "real" conservative in the race named Bob Barr.

I wish I could justify a vote for someone who cannot win. I really do, but in today's world the man who will be President is either Obama or McCain. McCain is not my first choice or my second or third for that matter but he's several hundred places higher on my list than Obama. In the real world of today, a vote for anyone but these two men is a throw away vote. Being in NY, I may be in one of the few places that is an exception to that rule. Obama will win here so I can vote for who ever and it doesn't matter to the end result and I can register my dissatisfaction with the two mainstream candidates. In any state that is contested, vote for McCain or help him lose.

 

[FireMax]

peetzakilla
I wish I could justify a vote for someone who cannot win. I really do, but in today's world the man who will be President is either Obama or McCain.

And, I really wish I could support a republican for president this year, but there is just no way I can vote for mccain. He has governed like a liberal, cozied up to the democrats, played good-ol-boy politics AGAINST the republican party, and I see no good reason a man like that deserves my vote.

 

[Jeffenwulf]

I'm not happy with ANY of the candidates. Even the third, fourth, etc party candidates pretty much suck. I can't vote for myself yet because I'm not constitutionally eligible until 2012. I've voted Dem the past few years, but that's not an option for me this year. My priorities have shifted quite a bit. Maybe it's the military, high taxes, who knows ... but I'll be voting Republican or Libertarian this year.

 

[buzz_knox]

The fact is, the position that "we should all vote for the two most popular guys" does not hold water when you apply logic to it. Don't be offended by this logic. Turn your brain on and think about it.

The actual logic is "one of these individuals will win. Who will screw us less?"

I realize that isn't the idealistic "let's die on our swords rather than live to continue the fight" that is so prevent on the internet, but it's the harsh reality.

 

[FireMax]

buzz_knox, I've considered your approach. But, I believe that mccain is more dangerous to the republican party than we imagine. If he wins this year, then republicans all across the land will strive to model after his (win with liberalism) approach and conservatism in the republican party will be all but dead.

I was a huge Ron Paul supporter through all of this. But, I could have stomached just about any other GOP candidate (except Guiliani). Fred Thompson, for example... I could have voted for him because he is, at his core, a true conservative. McCain is simply an opportunistic liberal politician and his vehicle is the back of the republican party which he has chastised and fought against for over 8 years. Support him now? I think not. McCain is offensive to me in ways that Obama is offensive to me. They both take conservative voters for granted. They believe we are stupid and we will vote for any slick politician.

 

[buzz_knox]

But, I believe that mccain is more dangerous to the republican party than we imagine. If he wins this year, then republicans all across the land will strive to model after his (win with liberalism) approach and conservatism in the republican party will be all but dead.

If he wins, he'll have 1) taken the Dems "look, we are diverse!" tool away from them (actually, Bush did that with his cabinet but he doesn't get the credit) and 2) (more importantly) brought in a VP who fits the conservative model to a T. He'll have done more to reinvigorate conservativism than anyone since Reagan. Those values won't be argued for by individuals who unfortunately sidelined themselves with their inept presentations to anyone other than the choir.

 

[FireMax]

buzz_knox
If he wins, he'll have 1) taken the Dems "look, we are diverse!" tool away from them (actually, Bush did that with his cabinet but he doesn't get the credit) and 2) (more importantly) brought in a VP who fits the conservative model to a T. He'll have done more to reinvigorate conservativism than anyone since Reagan.

I was actually taking you seriously until I read that last line.

 

[buzz_knox]

I was actually taking you seriously until I read that last line.

Too bad. He's got the chance to take conservatism mainstream again by wrapping it up in a package far more palatable to the general population (even many conservatives) than Paul or Barr.

 

[FireMax]

buzz_knox, I don't think that mccain will take the GOP anywhere except toward mediocrity. I believe there is a wrong belief among some republicans that the GOP must take on moderate positions to survive. In other words.... convert to liberalism.

That is just wrong on so many levels. We already have a liberal party. The GOP has traditionally resisted liberalism with a few exceptions (Ford, Bush41, Bush43 and now McCain).

Back to Reagan, using Reagan and McCain in the same sentence will only work if you say something like.... "Reagan returned from his grave to stab mccain with an ice pick" or something similar.

 

[S832]

Reagan was the first president to give amnesty to illegal immigrants, he wasn't nearly as great as many people think.

 

[FireMax]

I was watching the History channel, a show about Ronald Reagan. They said, after the fall of the Berlin wall, they found a file in the Stasi (East German secret police) on Ronald Reagan. In it was a line that said, "To Reagan, words are the same as deeds".

If only we had a man like that running for president in the republican party.

 

[Musketeer]

Reagan was the first president to give amnesty to illegal immigrants, he wasn't nearly as great as many people think.

and Brady

and the 86 Ban

and Souter

and monstrous spending

I am a Reagan fan but I am not blind to his faults. He was truly the Teflon President because nothing stuck to him. The left couldn't make anything stick to him and the right didn't even try.

 

[buzz_knox]

The move towards liberalism will be strengthened by a McCain defeat, not negated. The Republicans will see that the only way to win is by moving towards the center (which then moves left), not towards the right. That's where we got "compassionate conservatism" (the Republicans having believed in '00 that the only way to win was to play that game). Pulling conservatives out of the party only facilitates this movement, especially when the party sees a conservative on the ticket but it loses anyway.

Think of it like this: if McCain wins this year, he is unlikely to run for a second term. There's no question that Palin won't be more heavily involved than any other VP in recent memory (perhaps ever) because 1) she will represent the "new" face of the Republicans, 2) she will be a stick in the eye of the Dems, 3) even the limited exposure she's received indicates she's got more of a speaking ability than McCain does, and 4) she doesn't seem the type to stay home and bake cookies for the White House. So, you can either look to Obama up for 8 years, or set Palin up for her first full term.

 

[FireMax]

Let's say that McCain moves to the center in this election (which he is doing) and is defeated. You are saying, then, the GOP will try to avoid defeat in 2012 by moving to the center again in 4 years??

Nah, that doesn't make any sense. If McCain's move to the center fails, then the GOP will do what it always does, re-embrace it's founding principles and move back to the right where it belongs.

I look forward to McCain's demise in the GOP and to all of the liberals that think like him.

 

[buzz_knox]

Nah, that doesn't make any sense. If McCain's move to the center fails, then the GOP will do what it always does, re-embrace it's founding principles and move back to the right where it belongs.

How did the GOP retake the White House in 2000? By "embracing its founding principles" or by "compassionate conservatism"?

I'm having serious flashbacks to 1992, when a friend argued strongly that by voting for Ross Perot, he'd send a message to the GOP to wake up and get back to being conservative. Nothing like seeing a strong Texan almost weeping that November night, asking how Clinton got elected. I can't recall if I said "because of people like you," but I know I thought it.

By the way, the last comment wasn't pointed directly at you. I was just thinking that "I've heard this all before." And that's absolutely true. There is nothing really new in politics, and the accusations against the GOP now are the same ones that have been around for decades.

All the grand strategies at reforming the GOP through defeat pretty much failed.

 

[FireMax]

Yes, don't blame the sorry candidate for his loss. Ross Perot would never had emerged if Bush 41 had not lied and said "Read my lips, no new taxes" and then raised our taxes.

Conservatives don't like liars and we especially don't like republicans who govern like liberals and raise our taxes. Bush 41 deserved to lose. You and people like you can blame others for your candidates deficiencies, but it's just sour grapes.

 

[Musketeer]

So who on the right COULD McCain have selected that would have appeased the fanatical right and convinced them that they will be heard in a McCain administration?

Who could he have picked to set up for a Presidential run in 2012 or 2016 to satisfy them?

Sorry guys, your nominees LOST (mine too!). Blame it on whatever you want but the bottom line is who you wanted is NOT who the gained enough votes in the Republican party to win the nomination. Taking your toys and running away is not going to sway any people to your cause when you will be seen as a prime reason for a loss.

Paul is right on one thing, he is not looking to split the party. He is not running against the Rep nominee. As long as he looks to force change within the Rep. party I will support him.

 

[publius42]

I wish I could justify a vote for someone who cannot win. I really do, but in today's world the man who will be President is either Obama or McCain.

In this year's New York State, the electoral votes will go to Obama, so you're going to have to vote for him if you want someone who can win the electoral votes (the only votes that matter) in your state.

If you don't like Obama, choose from the losers, but don't kid yourself about making any difference with a vote for McCain. I might be able to make a difference down here in Florida. You are free to vote for whomever you think best, without any real-world consequences.

 

[rzach]

who is Bob Barr? I do not know him