Yes, but all that extra powder only equates to an extra 200fps (using 129gr bullet) at the muzzle. How much is that 200fps worth to you? For that matter, the .26 Nozler beats the .264 win mag by about 300fps at the muzzle. The .264 is a notorious barrel burner. What's that got to say about the .26 Nozler?
Why no 6.5-'06?
- Thread starter hammie
- Start date
Yes, but all that extra powder only equates to an extra 200fps (using 129gr bullet) at the muzzle. How much is that 200fps worth to you? For that matter, the .26 Nozler beats the .264 win mag by about 300fps at the muzzle. The .264 is a notorious barrel burner. What's that got to say about the .26 Nozler?
We live in modern times, where we now have decent 'fixes' for the 'barrel burners' thanks to advances in technology and metallurgy.
Also, due to the .26 Nolser's powder capacity, you'd need a long barrel to fully take advantage of it. If you're comparing 22'' barrels the .26Nos isn't going to look a whole lot faster than other 6.5mm's
OTOH, if you've got a 32'' tube, I'd certainly bet that it'd pull ahead of the other 6.5mm cartridges pretty quickly, with the right powders.
Short barrels are the trend, so I can understand why shooters wouldn't want a barrel that long, or a 6.5mm with that much powder. It's obviously not for everyone. Just like everyone with a .30-06 doesn't need a .300RUM, simply because it's faster.
Also, due to the .26 Nolser's powder capacity, you'd need a long barrel to fully take advantage of it. If you're comparing 22'' barrels the .26Nos isn't going to look a whole lot faster than other 6.5mm's
OTOH, if you've got a 32'' tube, I'd certainly bet that it'd pull ahead of the other 6.5mm cartridges pretty quickly, with the right powders.
Short barrels are the trend, so I can understand why shooters wouldn't want a barrel that long, or a 6.5mm with that much powder. It's obviously not for everyone. Just like everyone with a .30-06 doesn't need a .300RUM, simply because it's faster.
I try to withhold my opinion about "which one is faster" until I have seen actual results from actual rifles.
A friend of mine used to love his .270 Weatherby. Fastest thing in its class. Until he chronographed it, and found his .270 Winchester was actually beating it by 70fps.
He sold the Weatherby.
(granted that is an uncommon case, but it does happen)
What shooters get from their own guns, in the field can be ..rather different from what the makers claim.
A friend of mine used to love his .270 Weatherby. Fastest thing in its class. Until he chronographed it, and found his .270 Winchester was actually beating it by 70fps.
He sold the Weatherby.
(granted that is an uncommon case, but it does happen)
What shooters get from their own guns, in the field can be ..rather different from what the makers claim.
603Country
New member
Seeing this chat reminds me of my cousin and his 6.5-280. I've gone around and around with him about this caliber. To me it's a 6.5-06, but he says his base case was the 280 Remington, so it's a 6.5-280. Well...maybe so, but I plan to keep harassing him about it. No reason to let him get comfortable about his nomenclature. Regardless, the cuz can shoot. He's really good.
Unlicensed Dremel
Moderator
A whole lot more powder /=/ a whole lot more utility, or even meaningfully more utility. But ok, instead of it doing 99.6% of what the Nosler can do, maybe it's more like 99.1% - I'll amend to that number.
In the real world, when would you actually need that in a *hunting* rifle, which is what it's for? I mean, the 6.5-06 is already a lean mean wind-bucking 400 yard canyon crosser. And if the answer is "yeah, but what about the 'long-range' hunting?" like these people you see shooting game at 5, 6, 7, 8, 900 + yards.... (a) it's highly unethical to begin with, as the game can move during bullet flight easily, and often do, and (b) If you're going to do that, you want more wallop on the end than a 6.5 bullet can deliver - at least a .30 cal, or for elk+, a .338 cal - hence the .338 edges and such. In my oPINion. But yes, the actual velocity increase over 6.5-'06 is "signficant", since it will be around 150 fps, give or take 50.
As for how much faster than a .264 winmag, as someone pointed out, we'll have to wait and see for real numbers, but I'd be shocked if it got you 75 fps more with a 130 grainer, and possibly as little as none/ negligible.
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A member on another forum claims his friend chronoed a 129grain accubond @ a hair over 3400FPS from a .26Nos long range build.
That's over 200FPS faster than .264win mag with a 129 grain bullet.
129 grain @ 3400fps = 3310ft-lbs of energy
140 grain @ the claimed 3300fps = 3384ft-lbs energy
Not too much of a stretch there, but I guess we'll see once we get more .26nos rifles out there.
That's over 200FPS faster than .264win mag with a 129 grain bullet.
129 grain @ 3400fps = 3310ft-lbs of energy
140 grain @ the claimed 3300fps = 3384ft-lbs energy
Not too much of a stretch there, but I guess we'll see once we get more .26nos rifles out there.
Unlicensed Dremel
Moderator
Well if those are true, I guess I'm all wet on the actual vel. increase - hella impressive. 400 over 6.5-'06 and 200 over .264 WM are NOT even close to what I said of 150-200 over 6.5-'06 and nil to 75 over .264 WM, so I'm full of it if those are real world vels.
As for actual utility, as mentioned, that's another matter IMO. Hate to pay $3,000 for a rifle with barrel life of 1000 rounds. To my way of thinking, if you're gonna get a magnum buttstomper super-overbore-round rifle, get a $500 rifle so you're not out too much when it's time to rebarrel in a few years. But then again I'm not a 1%er ("oilies" as we call them around here for the business that most 1%ers are in), with tons of money to throw around - your mileage may vary.
Having said that, if someone gave me a Nosler rifle in .26N, I would be delighted... though I'd sell it while it was still NIB, so I wouldn't have to take the "unknown-round-count barrel burner worry" price hit on the used market. Then buy a Cooper or 6.5mm-'06 A-Square**.
**QUESTION: The 6.5mm-'06, as standardized by A-Square - this round IS or IS NOT an "improved" shoulder version in the Ackley tradition? I mean, I see rifles for sell from time to time, which say BOTH "6.5mm-'06 AI" or "improved", and also just "6.5mm-'06" - is the former the A-Square, or the latter, or is it just a cluster with many chamber differences in used rifles? Thanks.
As for actual utility, as mentioned, that's another matter IMO. Hate to pay $3,000 for a rifle with barrel life of 1000 rounds. To my way of thinking, if you're gonna get a magnum buttstomper super-overbore-round rifle, get a $500 rifle so you're not out too much when it's time to rebarrel in a few years. But then again I'm not a 1%er ("oilies" as we call them around here for the business that most 1%ers are in), with tons of money to throw around - your mileage may vary.
Having said that, if someone gave me a Nosler rifle in .26N, I would be delighted... though I'd sell it while it was still NIB, so I wouldn't have to take the "unknown-round-count barrel burner worry" price hit on the used market. Then buy a Cooper or 6.5mm-'06 A-Square**.
**QUESTION: The 6.5mm-'06, as standardized by A-Square - this round IS or IS NOT an "improved" shoulder version in the Ackley tradition? I mean, I see rifles for sell from time to time, which say BOTH "6.5mm-'06 AI" or "improved", and also just "6.5mm-'06" - is the former the A-Square, or the latter, or is it just a cluster with many chamber differences in used rifles? Thanks.
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If you're full of it, its probably from something else...
Real world velocities sometimes match makers claims. Sometimes they don't.
Too many factors are involved to be able to predict anything, other than that there will be variations.
I've seen guns with equal barrels lengths, firing the same ammo have over 100fps difference in muzzle velocities. Its not common, but its not ultra rare.
I've even seen a 4" revolver turn in a handful of fps higher than an 8". This is rare, but it can happen. Its all about the individual barrel and ammo "fit". Most of the time, things follow the usual standards, but sometimes, you get a gun that "thinks outside the box", so to speak.
this is why I don't get worked up by 100-200fps differences in claimed velocities. In your gun, maybe you get this, but maybe you don't. You only know for sure if you test (chronograph) them.
This is also why I find it a bit silly for pistol shooters to argue about loads (especially in pocket guns) where the claimed differences are in the 100fps range (or less).
Looking at what an ammo makers says they get with a given load is a pretty good reference, and certainly tells you what they got, in their gun. What you get in your gun is likely to be close, but not guaranteed, and might be a lot different than what you expect. Sometimes, you even get higher velocities than they claim. One NEVER knows, until you chrono them.
Real world velocities sometimes match makers claims. Sometimes they don't.
Too many factors are involved to be able to predict anything, other than that there will be variations.
I've seen guns with equal barrels lengths, firing the same ammo have over 100fps difference in muzzle velocities. Its not common, but its not ultra rare.
I've even seen a 4" revolver turn in a handful of fps higher than an 8". This is rare, but it can happen. Its all about the individual barrel and ammo "fit". Most of the time, things follow the usual standards, but sometimes, you get a gun that "thinks outside the box", so to speak.
this is why I don't get worked up by 100-200fps differences in claimed velocities. In your gun, maybe you get this, but maybe you don't. You only know for sure if you test (chronograph) them.
This is also why I find it a bit silly for pistol shooters to argue about loads (especially in pocket guns) where the claimed differences are in the 100fps range (or less).
Looking at what an ammo makers says they get with a given load is a pretty good reference, and certainly tells you what they got, in their gun. What you get in your gun is likely to be close, but not guaranteed, and might be a lot different than what you expect. Sometimes, you even get higher velocities than they claim. One NEVER knows, until you chrono them.
reynolds357
New member
I can not weigh in on the 26 Nosler, but I have three .264 Win mags. Two are on their second barrel. The 6.5-06 is not even on the same planet as the .264 Win. Mag. For some reason, the data for the .264 Win mag is super conservative. Published data shows the .264 Win mag at 300 fps faster than the 6.5-06 with a 120 gr bullet. In the .264 Win mag, I shot 120's boat tails at 3550 for many years before I decided to switch to x bullets.
Dremel, the 6.5-06 A Square is not an improved case, it has the same shoulder angle as the .2506,.270..3006, etc.
The "improved case" is a mystery to me, haven't studied the round at all..,
The 6.5-06 really isn't a barrel burner, anymore than a .270 winchester. It's all in how the cartridge is loaded...
The "improved case" is a mystery to me, haven't studied the round at all..,
The 6.5-06 really isn't a barrel burner, anymore than a .270 winchester. It's all in how the cartridge is loaded...
reynolds357
New member
Yep, the 6.5-06 A Square is a straight neck down. There is a 6.5-06 Ackley, but I do not have a reamer for it, nor do I desire to get one.
Actually technically it is, since it's more 'overbore' just like .270 win is more of a 'barrel burner' than .30-06 or .338-06.
The difference is fairly negligible, but it's there, and the more you neck down the case, the worse it gets. That's why there's no .224-06 or .243-06. Even .25-06 is pushing it a little, as the 06 case is losing quite a bit of efficiency once it's necked down that far.
It is also how the cartridge is loaded. If you're loading them to the same pressure, the larger diameter 06' variants will be less hard on barrels than the smaller diameter variants.
reynolds357
New member
There is a .224-06 and a 6mm-06. Have shot both of them.
Yeah, but they don't exist outside of a wildcat form, which is what I meant. If you want ammo you need to make it. 6.5-06 at least has support from A-Square. I meant 'No commercialized .224-06 and .243-06'
There's also .17-06 and .20-06 and they're of no real practical use either, and probably pretty bad 'barrel burners' as they say.