To add to what I posted earlier in response to Big G particularly...The P7 PSP is not my personal first choice and I never thought I needed to get one (had at least one friend who thought so) until I saw one (a PSP at 97%) in a local pawn shop for $525. Needless to say I bought it. It is a *great* shooter period. Since the manual of arms is so different from what I normally carry I gave it to my wife after having it refinished (Black-Tea). She is very pleased with it, and can shoot this very forgiving, confidence building 9mm better than other semi-autos she has tried. Guns may or may not have "mystique"; but, ultimately it's irrelevant. What matters is whether or not the gun works and whether one is commited to learning and mastering its manual of arms. Like it or hate it, mystique or not, the P7 is an exceptionally good hand gun.
Why is the HK P7 such a sought after gun? Hype?
- Thread starter Pilot
- Start date
To add to this, the P7 is more than a sum of its design characteristics. After all, The Vektor CP1 and the Heritage Stealth are both fixed barrel, gas-retarded designs--and both are mediocre pistols, at best.
The sum of the P7's features make it among the safest carry pistols, and a design that even those of relatively low training and skill can shoot with accuracy. It's hard not to like a gun that makes its owner look better than they otherwise are.
The sum of the P7's features make it among the safest carry pistols, and a design that even those of relatively low training and skill can shoot with accuracy. It's hard not to like a gun that makes its owner look better than they otherwise are.
Except for the rust problem, the P series is the best combination of reliability, size, accuracy and ease of use. Nothing that's lighter can match it in all four of the above (many specimens can match the reliability).
In reality, the manual of arms is like a Glock. Grab and go! It's even simpler come reload time. Unsqueeze and squeeze, and the slide drops.
Gee, I wish I had one. Only borrowed them in the past. Quite nice, easy to have pride of ownership.
In reality, the manual of arms is like a Glock. Grab and go! It's even simpler come reload time. Unsqueeze and squeeze, and the slide drops.
Gee, I wish I had one. Only borrowed them in the past. Quite nice, easy to have pride of ownership.
Der Grosse
New member
As someone who just became a pistol enthusiast last year, I can tell you that I purchased my P7M8 because I believe it to be the ideal pistol for a beginner. During an extensive 6 week pistol shooting/CCW class, I had the opportunity to shoot a wide variety of guns. The P7M8 was the best of pistols I tried because:
1. It is simple to use: just squeeze the cocker and pull the trigger.
2. It is safe: the chance of a negligent discharge is almost nill since the trigger becomes inoperative once the cocker is released.
3. It is a low recoiler: all that weight and the gas-piston make it feel like a pop-gun.
4. It is small: for 9mm packing 9 rounds, its hard to find a more reliable package for concealed carry.
There might be a status-symbol element to the P7s due to their exclusivity and price, but I do not agree that there is any undue "hype" since they are simply phenominal guns. Mine has spoiled me and I have been hard-pressed to find an acceptable second gun (although I am leaning towards a Beretta 92FS Inox.)
1. It is simple to use: just squeeze the cocker and pull the trigger.
2. It is safe: the chance of a negligent discharge is almost nill since the trigger becomes inoperative once the cocker is released.
3. It is a low recoiler: all that weight and the gas-piston make it feel like a pop-gun.
4. It is small: for 9mm packing 9 rounds, its hard to find a more reliable package for concealed carry.
There might be a status-symbol element to the P7s due to their exclusivity and price, but I do not agree that there is any undue "hype" since they are simply phenominal guns. Mine has spoiled me and I have been hard-pressed to find an acceptable second gun (although I am leaning towards a Beretta 92FS Inox.)
I too decided from reading all of these forums that I needed one of the P7's too. Thought maybe I was missing something 
Anyway I haven't been able to shoot the darn thing (see earlier posts on subject) but can't wait until that day comes. So to ease some of the pain of that I went out and bought a P9S which I was able to shoot this past wkend. I can say that if the P7 is on par with it I may be going for the tri-fecta... If anyone has suggestions for a third,pass it on..
Anyway I haven't been able to shoot the darn thing (see earlier posts on subject) but can't wait until that day comes. So to ease some of the pain of that I went out and bought a P9S which I was able to shoot this past wkend. I can say that if the P7 is on par with it I may be going for the tri-fecta... If anyone has suggestions for a third,pass it on..Me thinks this about sums it up...
I have 2 P7M8's and they work very well for me.
Your mileage may vary,
Greg Bell said it best:
Topic: Ultimate P7 Pro/Con FAQ
P7GURU
Member posted 01-06-2001 12:10 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PRO
1. Squeeze cocking. IMHO the safest gun for daily carry. The gun goes from perfectly safe to perfectly deadly in a split second. If you drop it you may have a heart attack because it might get scratched but you can rest assured it won't go off. This gun is incredibly fast.
2. Trigger pull. Thanks to the squeeze cocking system the gun is safely equipped with an excellent single action trigger pull. I've had die-hard partisans of every type of gun praise my P7's trigger.
3. Compact. Although it has full-size controls (no pinky hang), the gun is sized like a compact approaching a subcompact. It is much thinner than almost any handgun.(1.1-1.2 inches).
4. Full-size barrel. Despite this gun's compact size it has a full 4-inch barrel.
5. Fixed-barrel. This gun lacks the tilting barrel assembly of most other full-sized guns. This lends the gun exceptional accuracy. In combination with the aforementioned trigger, this barrel makes the P7 ultra-accurate.
6. Low recoil. This is debatable. I have always felt that this has the least recoil of any 9mm. Some disagree, most don't. This is likely result of the guns low bore/axis and gas system (although some say the gas system should have no effect).
7. Tough! This gun is CNC milled from a solid steel forging. The gun is so solid it could be used as a nasty set of brass knuckles in a pinch. Without picking one up it is hard to imagine how solid this little gun feels. When I had mine hardchromed the smith complained endlessly about how hard the P7 was to machine.
8. Excellent sight radius. Although the gun is short, HK maximized the sight radius by pushing the sights as far apart as practically possible.
9. Oddball manual of arms confuses bad guys and know it all buddies. There are many accounts of cops loosing their P7's to bad guys who were, in turn, unable to figure out the squeeze cocker. On the lighter side, a know it all at a local gunshop had just explained to all of his bad experiences with the P7 when I handed it to him only to watch him fumble around unable to cock it! Hilarious.
10. Chamber fluting allows the gun to function even if the extractor is broken. This feature really makes you think when you are trying to determine which gun you want to bet you life on (no offense, but this a much more serious advantage than being able to freeze the gun in a bucket of ice or whatever).
11. Easily childproofed. The P7's striker can be removed without tools (and without any other disassembly of the gun). The striker can be re-inserted into the gun in roughly 1 second. This could be a major consideration to those of us with small children and stupid friends.
12. Ambidextrous. With the exception of the slide catch and take down buttons, every model of the P7 is completely ambidextrous.
13. Ultra-fast magazine release. This has to be experienced to be understood. Rambo types complained about the PSP’s lack of rapid magazine release. HK, Germans that they are, decided to give them what they wanted—a magazine that ejects so fast and powerfully that they could be used as back-up projectiles in an emergency.
14. Ultra fast slide release. Simply squeeze the handle and the slide will be released.
15. 110 degree grip angle gives the gun natural pointability. 110 degree grip angle makes the gun point just like you finger.
16. Low profile slide. The P7’s low profile slide means that there is very little recoiling mass relative to the frame. This, along with the above mentioned 110-degree grip angle makes reacquiring targets a breeze with the P7.
Con
1. The gun gets uncomfortably hot after 60 (or so) rapid shots. More of a training problem than a "real world" consideration.
2. Finish lacks durability. Blued finish wears quickly and is very little protection against corrosion.
3. Very expensive. At over $1000, this gun is out of the range of many buyers.
4. The gun's design is such that it gets dirty quickly when shot.
5. The gun malfunctions when not maintained properly. While this is true of all guns, the P7 seems to be more sensitive than most modern autos. The solution is to keep the gas cylinder clean.
6. The P7's cocking lever emits a click when released. This is more of an issue with SEAL wannabes than real people. The theory is that the noise will alert the bad guys to your presence. Easily overcome with technique anyway (press in cocking latch at top of cocking lever while releasing your grip). With this technique the gun is almost silent and certainly quieter than any SIG or USP with decocking lever.
7. Low capacity. Except in now unavailable M13 (LEO only) and M10 (discontinued for ugliness), capacity is limited to 9 rounds (with one in chamber).
8. Grip screws come loose too easily. Use lock-tite.
9. Can't use lead bullets (see cleanliness issues above).
10. Slide lock button too small for some.
11. Magazine release on M8/M13 too sensitive to careless holstering (accidental magazine ejection). PSP model doesn't suffer from this (Euro-magazine catch).
12. During an emergency a user might accidentally squeeze the trigger while squeezing the cocking lever. I personally think this isn't a problem. The P7 was designed with a fair amount of take-up in the trigger so the gun is tolerant of some sloppiness. The moral of the story is to keep you finger off the trigger until you are ready to kill something. It should also be noted that your trigger finger is relatively independent of your other fingers. I can't remember the physiological term, but the other three fingers usually act in unison while the index finger is only partially connected. Still, in an emergency anything is possible--practice proper form with all firearms!
13. For some, seriously ham-fisted users, the gun might be accidentally disassembled if the take down button is inadvertently pressed while the slide is being racked. This is extremely unlikely, however, it can be done with practice.
14. Disassembly not for mere mortals. A "detail strip"
can involve a lot of head/heart ache. The gun has a fair number of parts but the real problem is the gun's unorthodox design [Expert reassembly tip, use grease to hold in the mag release spring--otherwise you will go mad trying to hold everything together while attempting to drive in the assembly pin]. An armorer at HK told me that they regularly have to reassemble guns for owners who let curiosity get the better of them. Fortunately, there is really no reason to strip it down beyond a "field strip." Just spray in some gun oil and wipe.
15. Possible difficulty depressing cocking lever with weak or injured hands. My father has weakness in his right hand related to a stroke he had a few years ago. For a while he was unable to cock my M8. On the other hand, once the lever is squeezed it only takes about a pound and a half to keep it cocked.
GHB
I have 2 P7M8's and they work very well for me.
Your mileage may vary,
Greg Bell said it best:
Topic: Ultimate P7 Pro/Con FAQ
P7GURU
Member posted 01-06-2001 12:10 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PRO
1. Squeeze cocking. IMHO the safest gun for daily carry. The gun goes from perfectly safe to perfectly deadly in a split second. If you drop it you may have a heart attack because it might get scratched but you can rest assured it won't go off. This gun is incredibly fast.
2. Trigger pull. Thanks to the squeeze cocking system the gun is safely equipped with an excellent single action trigger pull. I've had die-hard partisans of every type of gun praise my P7's trigger.
3. Compact. Although it has full-size controls (no pinky hang), the gun is sized like a compact approaching a subcompact. It is much thinner than almost any handgun.(1.1-1.2 inches).
4. Full-size barrel. Despite this gun's compact size it has a full 4-inch barrel.
5. Fixed-barrel. This gun lacks the tilting barrel assembly of most other full-sized guns. This lends the gun exceptional accuracy. In combination with the aforementioned trigger, this barrel makes the P7 ultra-accurate.
6. Low recoil. This is debatable. I have always felt that this has the least recoil of any 9mm. Some disagree, most don't. This is likely result of the guns low bore/axis and gas system (although some say the gas system should have no effect).
7. Tough! This gun is CNC milled from a solid steel forging. The gun is so solid it could be used as a nasty set of brass knuckles in a pinch. Without picking one up it is hard to imagine how solid this little gun feels. When I had mine hardchromed the smith complained endlessly about how hard the P7 was to machine.
8. Excellent sight radius. Although the gun is short, HK maximized the sight radius by pushing the sights as far apart as practically possible.
9. Oddball manual of arms confuses bad guys and know it all buddies. There are many accounts of cops loosing their P7's to bad guys who were, in turn, unable to figure out the squeeze cocker. On the lighter side, a know it all at a local gunshop had just explained to all of his bad experiences with the P7 when I handed it to him only to watch him fumble around unable to cock it! Hilarious.
10. Chamber fluting allows the gun to function even if the extractor is broken. This feature really makes you think when you are trying to determine which gun you want to bet you life on (no offense, but this a much more serious advantage than being able to freeze the gun in a bucket of ice or whatever).
11. Easily childproofed. The P7's striker can be removed without tools (and without any other disassembly of the gun). The striker can be re-inserted into the gun in roughly 1 second. This could be a major consideration to those of us with small children and stupid friends.
12. Ambidextrous. With the exception of the slide catch and take down buttons, every model of the P7 is completely ambidextrous.
13. Ultra-fast magazine release. This has to be experienced to be understood. Rambo types complained about the PSP’s lack of rapid magazine release. HK, Germans that they are, decided to give them what they wanted—a magazine that ejects so fast and powerfully that they could be used as back-up projectiles in an emergency.
14. Ultra fast slide release. Simply squeeze the handle and the slide will be released.
15. 110 degree grip angle gives the gun natural pointability. 110 degree grip angle makes the gun point just like you finger.
16. Low profile slide. The P7’s low profile slide means that there is very little recoiling mass relative to the frame. This, along with the above mentioned 110-degree grip angle makes reacquiring targets a breeze with the P7.
Con
1. The gun gets uncomfortably hot after 60 (or so) rapid shots. More of a training problem than a "real world" consideration.
2. Finish lacks durability. Blued finish wears quickly and is very little protection against corrosion.
3. Very expensive. At over $1000, this gun is out of the range of many buyers.
4. The gun's design is such that it gets dirty quickly when shot.
5. The gun malfunctions when not maintained properly. While this is true of all guns, the P7 seems to be more sensitive than most modern autos. The solution is to keep the gas cylinder clean.
6. The P7's cocking lever emits a click when released. This is more of an issue with SEAL wannabes than real people. The theory is that the noise will alert the bad guys to your presence. Easily overcome with technique anyway (press in cocking latch at top of cocking lever while releasing your grip). With this technique the gun is almost silent and certainly quieter than any SIG or USP with decocking lever.
7. Low capacity. Except in now unavailable M13 (LEO only) and M10 (discontinued for ugliness), capacity is limited to 9 rounds (with one in chamber).
8. Grip screws come loose too easily. Use lock-tite.
9. Can't use lead bullets (see cleanliness issues above).
10. Slide lock button too small for some.
11. Magazine release on M8/M13 too sensitive to careless holstering (accidental magazine ejection). PSP model doesn't suffer from this (Euro-magazine catch).
12. During an emergency a user might accidentally squeeze the trigger while squeezing the cocking lever. I personally think this isn't a problem. The P7 was designed with a fair amount of take-up in the trigger so the gun is tolerant of some sloppiness. The moral of the story is to keep you finger off the trigger until you are ready to kill something. It should also be noted that your trigger finger is relatively independent of your other fingers. I can't remember the physiological term, but the other three fingers usually act in unison while the index finger is only partially connected. Still, in an emergency anything is possible--practice proper form with all firearms!
13. For some, seriously ham-fisted users, the gun might be accidentally disassembled if the take down button is inadvertently pressed while the slide is being racked. This is extremely unlikely, however, it can be done with practice.
14. Disassembly not for mere mortals. A "detail strip"
can involve a lot of head/heart ache. The gun has a fair number of parts but the real problem is the gun's unorthodox design [Expert reassembly tip, use grease to hold in the mag release spring--otherwise you will go mad trying to hold everything together while attempting to drive in the assembly pin]. An armorer at HK told me that they regularly have to reassemble guns for owners who let curiosity get the better of them. Fortunately, there is really no reason to strip it down beyond a "field strip." Just spray in some gun oil and wipe.
15. Possible difficulty depressing cocking lever with weak or injured hands. My father has weakness in his right hand related to a stroke he had a few years ago. For a while he was unable to cock my M8. On the other hand, once the lever is squeezed it only takes about a pound and a half to keep it cocked.
GHB
BigG,
I can certainly appreciate your expertise in HK firearms. You know, a P7 pistol is just a small pocket sized G3 rifle, so they are completely analogous in any comparison right?
Also, PSG1 rifle that you complain about is world recognized most accurate semiautomatic sniper rifle.
As far as Glocks concern, they are good and reliable guns, but I would choose P7 over Glock any day of the week.
Shoot safely,
OKTAGON
I can certainly appreciate your expertise in HK firearms. You know, a P7 pistol is just a small pocket sized G3 rifle, so they are completely analogous in any comparison right?
Also, PSG1 rifle that you complain about is world recognized most accurate semiautomatic sniper rifle.
As far as Glocks concern, they are good and reliable guns, but I would choose P7 over Glock any day of the week.
Shoot safely,
OKTAGON
Wow
Great feedback guys. Thanks to all. I am eyeing a used P7M13 right now for $995. Its a lot to spend on a small 9MM, but its a different and interesting firearm which seems high quality and built like a tank. I may have to give it a go. I'll let you know if take the plunge. The only downside is if my wife finds out.
Pilot
Great feedback guys. Thanks to all. I am eyeing a used P7M13 right now for $995. Its a lot to spend on a small 9MM, but its a different and interesting firearm which seems high quality and built like a tank. I may have to give it a go. I'll let you know if take the plunge. The only downside is if my wife finds out.
Pilot
Pilot
Buy it for your wife, along with a dozen roses.
Last X-mas I bought my wife 2 P7's and a Diamond
and Ruby ring and she loved the ring.
She loved the ring so much that she gave me "her"
P7's..
(I save all year for Christmas.)
Don't buy the P7 for yourself, buy it for your
wife,
after all you love her and want her to be
safe, no?
Buy it for your wife, along with a dozen roses.
Last X-mas I bought my wife 2 P7's and a Diamond
and Ruby ring and she loved the ring.
She loved the ring so much that she gave me "her"
P7's..
(I save all year for Christmas.)
Don't buy the P7 for yourself, buy it for your
wife,
after all you love her and want her to be
safe, no?
Sam Norton
New member
I love my P7M8, but can't stand the P7M13. 4 reasons, one it hurts the web of my hand when shooting it, 2 its so much wider than the M8, 3 Mags are outragous. 4 a large number of M8 shooter's complain the M13 tends to shift in their grip under rapid fire. Not 1 out of the 4 regulars P7M8 shooter liked the M13 as well. My $.02 buy the P7M8.
Two other things I like about the P7M8. One you can stuff it in your pocket with no holster in an emergancy, and not have to worry about it going off. Two it is very competitive in IPSC style shooting with pistols half again bigger.
Best Regards
SamN
Two other things I like about the P7M8. One you can stuff it in your pocket with no holster in an emergancy, and not have to worry about it going off. Two it is very competitive in IPSC style shooting with pistols half again bigger.
Best Regards
SamN
CrowShooter
New member
I wasn't really aware that is WAS so sought after. Guess I learn something new everyday...... Mystique? Please......
Rich
Rich
Southpaw's delight
The disadvantages of my P7
1)Recoil is sharper than my USP9
2)A pain in the butt to clean to spotless condition.
Here are some advantages for those of us who shoot with the wrong (left) hand:
1) totally ambidextrous pistol, out of the box.
2) No special "variant" (like my USP) required, which means any one you buy is "lefty-friendly" and easy to *gasp* resell.
3) Activating the slide release via squeezing the grip is simply a brilliant idea. No fumbling with my trigger finger or support hand, trying to find the slide release.
A few general advantages:
4) At last, the light trigger pull of a SA pistol or Glock in a safer design that is easy to manipulate under stress.
And the most important reason:
5) After 14 years of shooting handguns, I have finally found the P7, a pistol that gives me total confidence that my first shot will be on time and on target.
No compromise!
The disadvantages of my P7
1)Recoil is sharper than my USP9
2)A pain in the butt to clean to spotless condition.
Here are some advantages for those of us who shoot with the wrong (left) hand:
1) totally ambidextrous pistol, out of the box.
2) No special "variant" (like my USP) required, which means any one you buy is "lefty-friendly" and easy to *gasp* resell.
3) Activating the slide release via squeezing the grip is simply a brilliant idea. No fumbling with my trigger finger or support hand, trying to find the slide release.
A few general advantages:
4) At last, the light trigger pull of a SA pistol or Glock in a safer design that is easy to manipulate under stress.
And the most important reason:
5) After 14 years of shooting handguns, I have finally found the P7, a pistol that gives me total confidence that my first shot will be on time and on target.
No compromise!