why is the .30 caliber so popular?

[ryalred]

There is such a huge availability of bullets, powder (suitable for loading 30 cal), brass, and loaded ammo in 30 caliber. It has proven itself as a caliber that can provide excellent accuracy, more than adequate stopping power for most purposes, all with relatively manageable recoil.

I think there may be some historical reasons as well, but more than anything, as others have mentioned, IT WORKS!

I often say "everyone should own at least one 30-06!"

P.S. Not only are there a tremendous number of 30 cal bullet choices, many of them have excellent ballistic coefficients, too.

 

[Rifleman1776]

insulting the current soldiers saying that they can not shoot so they must shoot a lot.

He did not say that. He did not insult our soldiers. You have changed the direction of this thread and insulted a member by mistating what he said. You owe an apology and you should edit your posts, IMHO.

 

[DAVID NANCARROW]

Beyond the history of the 30 caliber bullet, I dont believe there is a bullet which as been subjected to so much scientific study. The different types of bullets-spitzer, boat tail design, and most of the rest of the "I wonder if" theories were tried out on the good ole 30. Likely the most studied bullet in America

 

[sandw3844]

.30 Popularity

It is a good all around cartridge (it can be made fast or slow, for big or little bullets, can be made appropriate for most any size game), and is what I would call an American cartridge much like the .45 ACP, plus it is one that has many, many years of military history here in the USA.

For an article on .30's, see this months Guns and Ammo magazine for an article by Craig Boddington that address this popular cartridge.

 

[jimbob86]

..... because ballisticly efficient bullet weights are possible in .30 caliber with acceptable recoil levels ..... though what is thought of as "acceptable" has been getting smaller...... as has "combat range" ..... the armies of the 20th century trained to shoot honest to god Battle Rifles accurately to 500, 600, even 1000 yards..... today, we arm our troops with automatic carbines that are pretty much ineffective past 500 meters (a 55 grain bullet launched at2800 f/sec has less than 200 f/lbs of energy at 500 yards, and figuring drop and wind drift requires a calculator).....

...... but I guess you can carry more than twice the .223 ammo as .30-06...... If you can not shoot well, you should shoot a lot.

Just where in there did I insult "our troops"? They don't have the training or equipment to engage an enemy past 500 meters (the average distance engagements START at in the current "war" .... the one we have been in for nine years..... I was part of "our troops" from 1985 to 1995, and the only net changes have been the adoption of a heavier bullet, exchanging the .223 "rifle" for the .223 carbine, and the ad hoc development of the SDM (squad designated marksman) program. Our troops can't, for the most part, effectively engage the enemy at the ranges commonly encountered in Afghanistan. It is not an insult to them (or me) to state that fact.

I could argue this, but back to the topic:

The .30 calibers are popular because THEY WORK. ...... for everyone except the logisticians and bean counters.

 

[RWBlue01]

Just where in there did I insult "our troops"?

but I guess you can carry more than twice the .223 ammo as .30-06...... If you can not shoot well, you should shoot a lot.

......................................................................

 

[jimbob86]

OK, picker of nits:

"If you can't shoot well at 500 meters, because you lack the training and equipment to do so, bring lots of ammo, so you can shoot enough to get lucky."
Is that an insult to the troops? No, it is an indictment of the DoD, for being married to a system that it liked because it worked well in the past.

"Training to fight the last war" and not learning from what does not work leads to fiascos like Cold Harbor and Verdun.

Our only saving grace is that the guys with the ancient Enfields that whooped the Russians have been relaced with guys carrying the Russian's Kalashnikovs- they can't shoot that far with any degree of accuracy either, for the same reasons, and they dont have the logistics system we do.

 

[Buzzcook]

It worked for the Lebel so everyone else joined the .30 cal party.

 

[RWBlue01]

“The .30 calibers are popular because THEY WORK. ...... for everyone except the logisticians and bean counters.”

Actually they don’t. If they did the teams which can choose their own equipment would always go out with a .30 caliber rifles only.

 

[RWBlue01]

“it is an indictment of the DoD, for being married to a system that it liked because it worked well in the past.”

The DoD is soldiers.


The facts are we want our troops to be light/quick, armored and have plenty of firepower. The problem is we cannot have all three. It is always a compromise.

There have been constant changes in equipment and tactics over the last couple years. But then again, maybe this is not common knowledge.

 

[DAVID NANCARROW]

The soldiers/marines are DOD, no doubt about that, but it is true that they are only as good as the training they receive. The carbines, so effective in block to block fighting may not be ideal for Afghanistan, although the ACOG sights might help a bit for distance. I dont see the military gearing to one rifle for long range engagements and the other for house to house. America is pretty much a mechanized infantry,the M-4 is going to be easier to manuver in and out of the APCs. I guess the leg and airborne units are stuck with standard issue. What happens to the gear choices might be an interesting turn???

 

[JRI]

..... because ballisticly efficient bullet weights are possible in .30 caliber with acceptable recoil levels ..... though what is thought of as "acceptable" has been getting smaller...... as has "combat range" ..... the armies of the 20th century trained to shoot honest to god Battle Rifles accurately to 500, 600, even 1000 yards..... today, we arm our troops with automatic carbines that are pretty much ineffective past 500 meters (a 55 grain bullet launched at2800 f/sec has less than 200 f/lbs of energy at 500 yards, and figuring drop and wind drift requires a calculator).....

...... but I guess you can carry more than twice the .223 ammo as .30-06...... If you can not shoot well, you should shoot a lot.

Amen!
Pretty much sums it up.

 

[imp]

To get back on topic....


Relatively speaking, the .30 is a great compromise, especially for hunters. Light enough to shoot flat, heavy enough to kill just about everything.

 

[imacanuk]

I think the answer is a combination of
A:

Relatively speaking, the .30 is a great compromise, especially for hunters. Light enough to shoot flat, heavy enough to kill just about everything.

And B:

After the war, military weapons were common and used military firearms could be had for near pennys. Ammo was fairly common and easy to get. After WWII, the 308 came along making near the same power at combat yardages in a new weapon- the M14.

And also C:

It works!

It does work. This is because of reason A. [see above]. And it works so well it was used in the military a lot. This led to cheap milsurp rifles and ammo [see B, above]. Thus, if you're a bullet manufacturer, you're going to make bullets for rifles that most people have. That's why there's such a wide range of .30 cal bullets around. No point in making a new bullet of a size that few people use. You won't sell many. So now, when people look to buy a gun, they often go for what has the most options available. It's a positive feedback loop, that keeps building itself.

Lots of other calibers "work", but when the US military adopted the .30 cal, and kept using it in different chamberings, well, it pretty well became "America's Caliber".

 

[rickyrick]

So AR guys could someday switch their upper. sorry that was a blatant dart.

really its like others have said, it works.

Now there has been a long tradition of military rifles transferring over to hunting rifles, its convenient because they require the same features: rugged, reliable, reasonably accurate and the ability to kill mammals in the 150-300lbs range.

 

[SFW]

Because when you shoot it with a .30, it dies.

 

[jimbob86]

The DoD is soldiers.

As a percentage, just what portion of the DoD are active duty soldiers, and what percentage are GSA civilians, and/or Contractors, anyone know?

I'm just guessin' there are more career bureaucrats, accountants, secretaries, dishwashers, gateguards, depot mechanics, yadayada ad infinitum on the DoD payroll than there are soldiers, sailors and airmen combined. The days when "Every soldier was a Rifleman first." were over before I signed up.

 

[smoakingun]

is it posible to stay on topic? I am letting my son read these responses, I asked for his benifit, to enlighten him as well as me. Smoakingun jr. would like to know why one bullet diameter is better that another given the same bullet weight? (say .270 vs 30-06)?

 

[Buzzcook]

why one bullet diameter is better that another given the same bullet weight?

A longer bullet tends to be more aerodynamic than a shorter fatter bullet of the same weight and configuration.

Not the whole story of course, but that's the basics.

 

[RWBlue01]

As a percentage, just what portion of the DoD are active duty soldiers, and what percentage are GSA civilians, and/or Contractors, anyone know?

I'm just guessin' there are more career bureaucrats, accountants, secretaries, dishwashers, gateguards, depot mechanics, yadayada ad infinitum on the DoD payroll than there are soldiers, sailors and airmen combined. The days when "Every soldier was a Rifleman first." were over before I signed up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Defense
Look on the right hand side of the page.

The days of "Every soldier was a Rifleman first." never really existed. It is a myth. The only way to make it a reality is to higher more civilians to take care of the non-shooting, but ....I will stop before I hijack this thread any more.