smoakingun
New member
My 15 year old son just asked me a couple of questions that I have no really good answer for. Why are there so many rifle calibers, and why is the .30 caliber so popular?
why is the .30 caliber so popular?
- Thread starter smoakingun
- Start date
It started with the military s decision to go with the 30-40 Krag which was a fine cartridge in its day. But then WWI was coming along, the decision of the military to make the 30 caliber of 1903 the standard cartridge was the real primer. That lasted until the new and improved cartridge of 1906 came along- we call it the 30-06. After the war, military weapons were common and used military firearms could be had for near pennys. Ammo was fairly common and easy to get. After WWII, the 308 came along making near the same power at combat yardages in a new weapon- the M14. "Wildcats" of other cartridges necked down to the 30 caliber was sure to happen because the components were so common.
There are really only a few calibers, but many, many chamberings for those calibers. Reason? Everyone thinks they can do [insert task here] better. You've got the standard 308, for example - with its own predecessors, and somebody decides a 6.5 or 7mm bullet is better than .30, so you end up with 260 Rem or 7mm-08. Then Mr. Ackley decides that a 40 degree shoulder is better, so you get 260AI or 280AI or 223AI. And on and on and on.
30 caliber is popular because it was the US military's choice of bullet diameter back in 1892 to replace the 45-70. It offered the advantages of a small bore (good sectional density, flatter trajectories, fits into a repeating rifle's magazine box, etc) with ease of cleaning that was so critical for black powder and in the early days of smokeless propellants. Most people over the past 100+ years have been introduced to high-power rifle shooting in the military, and they become relatively familiar with a given cartridge (.30-40 US, then .30 Goverment-'06, then 7.62X51mm NATO), so they think it's good. FWIW, for the past 50 years, the military's choice of infantry cartridge has been a 22-caliber round, and there has been a commensurate increase in popularity of 22-caliber cartridges.
FWIW, in Europe, there is a similar preference for rifles in the caliber of the nation's military round. For years, German hunters preferred rifles in 8mm chamberings, Frenchmen likewise, Italian sportsmen spoke highly of 6.5mm chamberings, etc. It's entirely normal to gravitate towards something you are familiar with.
FWIW, in Europe, there is a similar preference for rifles in the caliber of the nation's military round. For years, German hunters preferred rifles in 8mm chamberings, Frenchmen likewise, Italian sportsmen spoke highly of 6.5mm chamberings, etc. It's entirely normal to gravitate towards something you are familiar with.
mapsjanhere
New member
The 30 cal, and I'm including everything from 7 - 8 mm in that, was born in the 1890 as the standard for smokeless powder military cartridges. It was the optimal caliber for lethality at distance with acceptable recoil. Infantry was thought to be fighting at 1/2 mile distances, and you needed something that can reach out there with force and as flat a trajectory as possible. Heavier rounds needed a lot of hold-over, lighter bullets didn't pass muster for loss of energy.
Only during WWII did the military realize that most shooting was done at 300 yard or less, and lighter bullet with less recoil also meant that the soldier could carry more cartridges. Hunters for the most part didn't follow the trend to the lighter cartridges since the military is happy with an incapacitated enemy (needing medical attention etc) while hunters prefer one shot kills. So the 30 (an close by) caliber stayed in the civilian market.
Only during WWII did the military realize that most shooting was done at 300 yard or less, and lighter bullet with less recoil also meant that the soldier could carry more cartridges. Hunters for the most part didn't follow the trend to the lighter cartridges since the military is happy with an incapacitated enemy (needing medical attention etc) while hunters prefer one shot kills. So the 30 (an close by) caliber stayed in the civilian market.
What everyone else has said. Ultimately, over time it has not passed folks' notice that it is neither "too big" or "too small"--for a very wide range of duty--in the overall/bigger scheme of caliber things. And it's hard to argue with that perspective--which happens to also have empirical support as well.
6.8/.277 (.270) - 7mm/.284 (.280), could have laid pretty good claim to same, but 7.62/.30 got there first.
6.8/.277 (.270) - 7mm/.284 (.280), could have laid pretty good claim to same, but 7.62/.30 got there first.
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ndking1126
New member
While all this about history is I'm sure true, I think it's more simple than that. You can't find a more readily available, cheaper round with so many options of bullets that will kill anything in North America (at reasonable distances). And that's refering to commercially available ammo. Milsurp certainly has it's own niche, but it's not necessarily mainstream for hunting.
It's cheap, it's available and it works. If the .270 was cheaper than the .308 or .30-06 I'm pretty sure it would outsell them.
It's cheap, it's available and it works. If the .270 was cheaper than the .308 or .30-06 I'm pretty sure it would outsell them.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
I figure that the reason there are so many different cartridges is just a human nature thing. Same deal for cars or tableware patterns. Somebody gets an idea that this, that or the other would be neater'n sliced bread and away they go!
As far as thirty caliber, you can load down with a round lead ball for squirrel, or up to fairly heavy bullets suitable for any North American game besides the seriously big bears--where the problem could be in stopping a charge, not just killing.
As far as thirty caliber, you can load down with a round lead ball for squirrel, or up to fairly heavy bullets suitable for any North American game besides the seriously big bears--where the problem could be in stopping a charge, not just killing.
..... because ballisticly efficient bullet weights are possible in .30 caliber with acceptable recoil levels ..... though what is thought of as "acceptable" has been getting smaller...... as has "combat range" ..... the armies of the 20th century trained to shoot honest to god Battle Rifles accurately to 500, 600, even 1000 yards..... today, we arm our troops with automatic carbines that are pretty much ineffective past 500 meters (a 55 grain bullet launched at2800 f/sec has less than 200 f/lbs of energy at 500 yards, and figuring drop and wind drift requires a calculator).....
...... but I guess you can carry more than twice the .223 ammo as .30-06...... If you can not shoot well, you should shoot a lot.
...... but I guess you can carry more than twice the .223 ammo as .30-06...... If you can not shoot well, you should shoot a lot.
The answer is....
(Topol starts dancing..) TRADITIONnnnnn!!!
When smokeless powder began showing up on the scene, people found out that a bullet in the .30 caliber range worked about as well as larger blackpowder bullets. And it shot flatter, to boot!
The first smokeless military round was the French 8mm Lebel (IIRC) All the other nations adopted, within a few years, a round in the general .30 caliber class, with each one choosing something unique and specific in that range.
The British went with the .303, a .30 caliber, but a few thousandths larger bullet diameter than the US .30 caliber. The Germans took the 8mm (.32), the Spanish liked the 7mm (.28), smaller nations chose something inbetween, 7.35mm, 7.65mm, etc.
Some countries went even smaller, down to 6.5mm (.26), and some of them went back up to a 7.35 or a 7.7mm later.
In the US, between the influence of the military choice of .30 caliber, and the hunting performance of the .30-30 for whitetail, the .30 caliber bore size became the American standard. And still is the most popular today.
With the greatest available range of both bullets and cartridges, along with fine ballisitic performance the .30 caliber goes from mice to moose, and has proven to be what the US shooter and hunters prefer over everything else.
Say "Deer rifle" in the USA, and some .30 caliber will be on the mind of most folks. Not as much today as in years past, but still leading the pack.
(Topol starts dancing..) TRADITIONnnnnn!!!
When smokeless powder began showing up on the scene, people found out that a bullet in the .30 caliber range worked about as well as larger blackpowder bullets. And it shot flatter, to boot!
The first smokeless military round was the French 8mm Lebel (IIRC) All the other nations adopted, within a few years, a round in the general .30 caliber class, with each one choosing something unique and specific in that range.
The British went with the .303, a .30 caliber, but a few thousandths larger bullet diameter than the US .30 caliber. The Germans took the 8mm (.32), the Spanish liked the 7mm (.28), smaller nations chose something inbetween, 7.35mm, 7.65mm, etc.
Some countries went even smaller, down to 6.5mm (.26), and some of them went back up to a 7.35 or a 7.7mm later.
In the US, between the influence of the military choice of .30 caliber, and the hunting performance of the .30-30 for whitetail, the .30 caliber bore size became the American standard. And still is the most popular today.
With the greatest available range of both bullets and cartridges, along with fine ballisitic performance the .30 caliber goes from mice to moose, and has proven to be what the US shooter and hunters prefer over everything else.
Say "Deer rifle" in the USA, and some .30 caliber will be on the mind of most folks. Not as much today as in years past, but still leading the pack.
I note that when smokeless powder was developed it seemed like everybody adopted a .30 caliber for their militaries-the 303 British, the 8MM Lebel rifle, the Germans the 7.92MM, the Russians the 7.62 x 54R, the Austrians the 8MMx50R. Tests found that to be the best compromise between range, penetration, velocity, etc. The 7MM seems to be the minimum bore diamter for "all around" use. Those countries that adopted rounds smaller than 7MM-Italy, Japan, e.g. found their rounds lacked range and and were not that good for machine gun use.
Well, let’s see.
We are having a nice conversation about why the 30 cal. is common and you decide to make a post about why the 30-06 is better than the 5.56 insulting the current soldiers saying that they can not shoot so they must shoot a lot.
We can now go into the US military determined was the average distance of engagement of WWII, Korea, Nam, in town?
We can now look at terminal ballistics of the FMJ 30-06 vs. the military 5.56?
We can now go into support and logistics?
We can also discuss the tactics, artillery, …..?
But personally, I will go back to my original statement, “Not this crap again”.
To be honest I am tired of having this same conversation.