Why gas prices are rising

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sasquatch

New member
FireMax

Trying to question me into oblivion because you have nothing to add to the conversation? That's funny.

I tell you what... you list 3 industries where it is not true, and I will comment on them. Surely you can name at least 3.
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I'm asking you to support the allegations you are making regarding jobs which have left the United States. You are making the claims, not me. It has become apparent in this discussion that you cannot support any of the rants you have made thus far.

But, I'll play your silly game. The US has lost jobs in the following three industries because we could not compete with foreign manufacturers:

1 - electronics
2 - textiles
3 - automobiles

Now..........your turn. You name three industries where the US has lost jobs which "competed just fine". I don't think you can.
 
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homefires

New member
We have lost 3 refineries over the last two year due to fire. We have lost others due to other, say Condemned, Not Economically Viable.


We are importing , product. GAS. People are parking there tractors, Big Rigs because they can not make money any more. Diesel is over the top AND you get two times the diesel from a barrel of oil then you do gas.

Petrol, as they call it in England is running say, $2.50 a litter. There is 3.78 litters to the gal, that make a US Gal of gas, what......$9.50 a gallon!:D

We are going to get there!

I prodict, We will be at $6.00 a gal this time next year!:D


Most people see the price say $3.20 at the gas station. How Many people know that is for 9/10 of a gallon? Your being had Right There!
 
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ericp

New member
oil prices

I'm still waiting for the "its a stealth tax to pay our national debt" argument to surface.

If there was such a shortage crisis, we would have kicked the habit long ago, and would be invading other countries for other natural resources.

wait.
 
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HKuser

New member
Amazingly, these issues are related. The point of the article on oil is that speculation is driving up the price, without a corresponding supply side justification. However, the lose of U.S. manufacturing base is also do to speculation. U.S. manufacturing companies could compete on price and quality, but they could not compete on margin. Market speculators demand high revenue margins on stock prices. If all you're looking at is speculative return, all other issues become secondary.
 
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FireMax

New member
[sasquatch]
But, I'll play your silly game. The US has lost jobs in the following three industries because we could not compete with foreign manufacturers:

1 - electronics
2 - textiles
3 - automobiles

Now..........your turn. You name three industries where the US has lost jobs which "competed just fine". I don't think you can.
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You're full of smoke and mirrors. As you may know, it is impossible for you to tell, if I mention a company or industry, whether or not a company within that industry moved overseas because they could not compete fine. If you think I am wrong about that, then dig up some evidence to show that they were not competing fine. That is my point. You can claim one thing and I can claim another, but only the company itself can give evidence of whether or not they were competing fine or not. Again, if you think I am wrong about that, then lay out some evidence. Of course, you mention no specifics because you know that you are not able. It's okay.

Now, with that said, let's get down to your weak argument which is that you think that American companies should be able to compete on price with companies who manufacture goods in third world countries... countries whose people exist on an average salary of $2000 per year. That, THAT, is your arguement!

When you say AMERICAN COMPANIES CANNOT COMPETE.... that is what you are saying... that they are not productive because they cannot compete with countries whose populations are impovershed and therefore will accept most any wage.

In a nutshell, that is what you suggest. That, to compete, an American worker should accept a wage similar to that of a Chinese worker or a Mexican worker. That $3000 per year is just fine for a per-capita income.

And that, sir, is the meat of your argument and that, sir, is a shame that you are so callous toward your own people in deferring to the needs of the corporations over the well being of your own people.
 
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grymster2007

New member
Most people see the price say $3.20 at the gas station. How Many people know that is for 9/10 of a gallon? Your being had Right There!
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Where did this come from? Last time I filled the five gallon plastic gas can right to the five gallon mark, the pump read five gallons.... Unless of course the maker of the gas can is in on it too?
 
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FireMax

New member
Amazingly, these issues are related. The point of the article on oil is that speculation is driving up the price, without a corresponding supply side justification. However, the lose of U.S. manufacturing base is also do to speculation. U.S. manufacturing companies could compete on price and quality, but they could not compete on margin. Market speculators demand high revenue margins on stock prices. If all you're looking at is speculative return, all other issues become secondary.
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Right. In short, speculation is to drive up the price of a share of a stock. This is intended to increase the wealth of the investor. That is fine. However, there are dire consequences for speculation when left unchecked. There is a finite amount of wealth in the world. Thus, if you enrichen one segment (investors), then another segment of people are hurt. Oil, gas, for example... the oil companies force us to pay $110 per barrel of oil, $3.49 per gallon gas, even though the amount of cost to extract and refine the oil into gas is nearly the same as it was 10 years ago when oil was only $20 a barrel. So, wealth is moved from one segment of our society (the American people) to another segment (global and domestic corporations).

The middle class in America is shrinking. Our high paying manufacturing jobs are mostly overseas now. Government is talking about raising taxes on the citizen, further reducing the wealth of the people, and decreasing our ability to "stimulate" the economy by continuing to "consume" goods.

Our economy is like a ship headed for an iceberg. It is important that we at least educate ourselves as to who is steering the ship and what constitutes the iceberg.
 
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sasquatch

New member
Firemax
let's get down to your weak argument which is that you think that American companies should be able to compete on price with companies who manufacture goods in third world countries... countries whose people exist on an average salary of $2000 per year. That, THAT, is your arguement!
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No, I didn't say that. You did. They can't. That is precisely why those jobs have moved from the US to foreign countries.

When you say AMERICAN COMPANIES CANNOT COMPETE.... that is what you are saying... that they are not productive because they cannot compete with countries whose populations are impovershed and therefore will accept most any wage.

In a nutshell, that is what you suggest. That, to compete, an American worker should accept a wage similar to that of a Chinese worker or a Mexican worker. That $3000 per year is just fine for a per-capita income.

And that, sir, is the meat of your argument
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It has nothing do with "accepting a wage". It has to do with competing. Economics 101.
 
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cool hand luke 22:36

New member
Interesting article, but I don't think that the case the author makes is conclusive.

He states that "gasoline supplies are at record levels" but that isn't the whole story regarding supply and demand.

Different parts of the country are required to use different blends of gasoline with different additives at various times of the year.

I wonder if, even though overall supply is high, the specific blends of gas needed are in short supply because of a lack of refining capacity to produce them.

I recall that, about three years ago, prices began to increase sharply because the blend of gas required by the EPA was in short supply due to refinery problems on the Gulf Coast.
 
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Redworm

Moderator
And that, sir, is the meat of your argument and that, sir, is a shame that you are so callous toward your own people in deferring to the needs of the corporations over the well being of your own people.
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One could say the same thing to you. Some of us consider our "people" to be the human species as a whole, not simply other Americans.
 
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model70fan

New member
Corporations don't just up and leave if they are competing and making a profit. The #1 rule of business is to stay in business, i.e. make a profit (economics 101:D). I always laugh when people complain about corporations moving overseas, they are also usually the ones saying to tax business to death, I wonder why they move overseas where they can operate without charging $30 for a pair of underwear to cover taxes and labor costs? We own businesses in MN, we are moving our business to WI where the business taxes don't destroy us. I must be an elitest for wanting to turn as much profit on a substancial investment as I can:barf:. If people want to keep industries from going overseas, they are free to start their own corporation and try to compete.
 
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cool hand luke 22:36

New member
Are you aware of the generations of oil we are sitting on in Alaska
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Not to mention the proven, economically profitable techniques for producing gasoline from natural gas available today.

In its natural gas reserves, the USA has several times the entire oil energy supply of the middle east combined. Makes me wonder why we're not using it.
 
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cool hand luke 22:36

New member
I always laugh when people complain about corporations moving overseas, they are also usually the ones saying to tax business to death
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Don't limit that to only ruinous levels of taxation. Other regulations of US Corporations are so onerous that they drive them out of the USA.

Sarbanes-Oxley is a good example. That law did more than anything else to make London the new financial hub of the world, replacing of New York.
 
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model70fan

New member
+1, I was just using the hellish corporate tax rates as one reason. But, corporations are evil so they should leave (sarcasm)
 
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ericp

New member
"Who sets the price for a barrel of oil?"

"Makes me wonder why we're not using it."

Now this thread is getting somewhere. :eek:
 
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zukiphile

New member
There is a finite amount of wealth in the world. Thus, if you enrichen one segment (investors), then another segment of people are hurt. Oil, gas, for example... the oil companies force us to pay $110 per barrel of oil, $3.49 per gallon gas, even though the amount of cost to extract and refine the oil into gas is nearly the same as it was 10 years ago when oil was only $20 a barrel. So, wealth is moved from one segment of our society (the American people) to another segment (global and domestic corporations).
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If only those corporations were owned by people rather than alien robots.

From an author who purports to opposed socialism, this is a strikingly socialist zero-sum description of wealth.
 
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