Why didn't the Jews Fight?
- Thread starter Jamie Young
- Start date
But I'm not too sure how comfortable I would be knowing that my actions caused the death of 200 innocent people.
Would you rather consent and help cause the death of literally MILLIONS of innocent people? (as was done).
You MIGHT want to read about the Warsaw Ghetto uprising where the entire Wehrmacht was held off for 3 months. It all started with the Jews having MAYBE a dozen crappy handguns.
Please read: Mila 18 by Leon Uris
Would you rather consent and help cause the death of literally MILLIONS of innocent people? (as was done).
You MIGHT want to read about the Warsaw Ghetto uprising where the entire Wehrmacht was held off for 3 months. It all started with the Jews having MAYBE a dozen crappy handguns.
Please read: Mila 18 by Leon Uris
Jamie Young
New member
Oleg- You took it exactly where I wanted it to go
J
Jeff, CA
Guest
Perhaps, but haven't you noticed? Names, addresses, even faces are closely-guarded secrets.
Tamara...
"On your foot" and "On your knees" are boolean.
"It's better to be a dead lion than a live jackal. But being a live lion is always best".
The sort of system which would kill 200 innocent, unarmed people as a reprisal for one of "their" deaths won't keep promises, won't play by discernable rules, and cannot have it's loyalty won. I'd feel every single of those 200. I'd mourn them. But I would not have killed them. And I would then do my best to match the bad guys' 200 ... and raise.
People who would use force indiscriminately can only be bested by using lethal force in return - either overwhelmingly, or delivered more capably.
Selah.
"On your foot" and "On your knees" are boolean.
"It's better to be a dead lion than a live jackal. But being a live lion is always best".
The sort of system which would kill 200 innocent, unarmed people as a reprisal for one of "their" deaths won't keep promises, won't play by discernable rules, and cannot have it's loyalty won. I'd feel every single of those 200. I'd mourn them. But I would not have killed them. And I would then do my best to match the bad guys' 200 ... and raise.
People who would use force indiscriminately can only be bested by using lethal force in return - either overwhelmingly, or delivered more capably.
Selah.
goosegunner
New member
If I haven't allready escaped, I hope I will fight. But you never know what you will do in a situation like that untill you are there, do you?
I always think I would have escaped long time ahed of such an event, but I think this is like frogs and boiling water: if you drop a frog in boiling water it will jump out again and have a possibility to survive, but if you put the frog in the water when it is cold and then boil it the frog will stay in it till it is dead and not even try to escape
I always think I would have escaped long time ahed of such an event, but I think this is like frogs and boiling water: if you drop a frog in boiling water it will jump out again and have a possibility to survive, but if you put the frog in the water when it is cold and then boil it the frog will stay in it till it is dead and not even try to escape
I predict that not a lot of people here will answer yes to the poll question.
These would be the leaders of the 'resistance', whatever that may be. And leaders do not grow on trees. Unfortunately, for the 'resistance' to grow, you would need to get the word out, and I don't see the media doing that anytime soon. They do have their agenda to worry about.
These would be the leaders of the 'resistance', whatever that may be. And leaders do not grow on trees. Unfortunately, for the 'resistance' to grow, you would need to get the word out, and I don't see the media doing that anytime soon. They do have their agenda to worry about.
Who in 1942 would believe that the cultured Germans were capable of genocide? Or that the "wave of the future", communism, would kill millions of people. From our vantage point we know such things happen, that governments are capable of terrible evil.
Jews, especially religious ones accepted their fate in the belief of the coming of the Messiah and the Resurrection. Others used the same behavior that had worked previously, suffer the insults and in time things will get better, not realizing that no matter what they did death was inevitable. Some fought back as mentioned in the Warsaw Ghetto and as partisans in the forests. but I maintain that the Jews acted much like everybody else, very few are able to stand before the power of a modern, police state. Remember the full fury of the Nazi government was directed against the Jews, their extinction was one of Hitler's main war aims. No other group received the special attention that the Jews did. And that is not to diminish the suffering and deaths of the Slavs and Gypsies.
If the US government had wanted to, it could have exterminated the interned Americans of Japanese ancestry. Luckily, the US government has been more civilized in general, but will it always be that way?
Could I see 200 people shot because of my actions. Under the yoke of a goverment as evil as the Nazis or communists I would say yes with a clear conscience.
But talk is cheap, especially in front a computer terminal. I suggest that no one really knows for sure and I hope that no one ever has to make that decision.
Jews, especially religious ones accepted their fate in the belief of the coming of the Messiah and the Resurrection. Others used the same behavior that had worked previously, suffer the insults and in time things will get better, not realizing that no matter what they did death was inevitable. Some fought back as mentioned in the Warsaw Ghetto and as partisans in the forests. but I maintain that the Jews acted much like everybody else, very few are able to stand before the power of a modern, police state. Remember the full fury of the Nazi government was directed against the Jews, their extinction was one of Hitler's main war aims. No other group received the special attention that the Jews did. And that is not to diminish the suffering and deaths of the Slavs and Gypsies.
If the US government had wanted to, it could have exterminated the interned Americans of Japanese ancestry. Luckily, the US government has been more civilized in general, but will it always be that way?
Could I see 200 people shot because of my actions. Under the yoke of a goverment as evil as the Nazis or communists I would say yes with a clear conscience.
But talk is cheap, especially in front a computer terminal. I suggest that no one really knows for sure and I hope that no one ever has to make that decision.
Perhaps I spoke not enough plain like.
When a regime is to the point of authorizing reprisals, your choices simply become "on your feet" (dying with a gun in your hands) or "on your knees" (dying in front of a ditch you just dug with 199 of your neighbors).
Again, I know which choice would be for me.
damn Tam you beat me to the punch on the feet or knees saying. But in this case it is damn true. there is now way i would suffer the indignities and torture from the likes of nazis. I would want to take some of those #@&%*$*@ 's with me.
On the other hand I don't think a lot of people really understood what they were in for. I think they relied on a mistaken perception of humanity in their captors. When a lot of them realized their folly, it was probably largely to late. Hindsite is 20/20 an all.
On the other hand I don't think a lot of people really understood what they were in for. I think they relied on a mistaken perception of humanity in their captors. When a lot of them realized their folly, it was probably largely to late. Hindsite is 20/20 an all.
Oleg, your posts here are great!
One thing I don't like about war and is in some of your posts: Sure we might have to take out some of the rank, but it saves lives to take out the head asap. A dozen of the most culpable congressmen.
In another great book I read, one problem is not recognizing what's going on, another is acting to late.
I'm up to 4 purpose bought arms, 2 more to go. Up to 8,000 rounds, aiming for 4X as much.
When they are banned, you need something to bury. The prices will be very high when the ban is announced.
Keep a mental list of acquaintences of like mind. Keep the list mental.
My best bud in that area has an armory in two diff states and a major airplane.
It's certainly not quite time for action, but to not be AWARE or getting PREPARED is stupid. I don't make it a big part of my life, but won't be caught unarmed or stupid!
One thing I don't like about war and is in some of your posts: Sure we might have to take out some of the rank, but it saves lives to take out the head asap. A dozen of the most culpable congressmen.
In another great book I read, one problem is not recognizing what's going on, another is acting to late.
I'm up to 4 purpose bought arms, 2 more to go. Up to 8,000 rounds, aiming for 4X as much.
When they are banned, you need something to bury. The prices will be very high when the ban is announced.
Keep a mental list of acquaintences of like mind. Keep the list mental.
My best bud in that area has an armory in two diff states and a major airplane.
It's certainly not quite time for action, but to not be AWARE or getting PREPARED is stupid. I don't make it a big part of my life, but won't be caught unarmed or stupid!
The following is a true story as told by Ms. Vitka Kovner, when she was a young woman (19-20) and before she married Abba Kovner:
“I joined the team that was responsible for terrorist attacks outside the ghetto, and my first and important mission, together with Yoske Maskovitz, was to detonate a bomb on the railway in order to damage the train that transported equipment to the war front,” recalls Vitka.
Detonating the bomb turned out to be the easiest part of the mission. In order to determine where and when to place the bomb, Vitka had to exit the ghetto many times, an act involving much danger and permitted only to those in work groups. “I sat entire nights following the trains’ routes, trying to determine the hours they passed by and when the Germans patrolled and checked the railways.”
Once Vitka managed to escape from the ghetto, she had to remove the Yellow Star, an act punishable by death had she been caught. Returning to the ghetto, too, was not simple and once, taking a wrong turn, she ended up in a grove in the middle of a Nazi training camp. Gathering her wits, she approached the Germans and pretended to be a Polish woman who was lost; thanks to her correct accent, she succeeded in deceiving them.
“Finally, after months of planning, and with the help of a policeman from the ghetto, we sneaked out the bomb that Abba had built and detonated it. When we managed to get back into the ghetto [without being discovered] it was a day of celebration,” Vitka remarks. The bomb worked as planned, and according to the newspapers, a great deal of damage was done to the train cars, and a few soldiers were killed. “The Germans believed in collective responsibility and had they known that Jews had executed the bombing they would have had us killed by the thousands.” The Germans did not imagine that this was the work of Jews, and, therefore, retaliated by executing all the residents in a nearby Polish town.
It is unfortunate that an entire Polish town was decimated in retailation. However, many of the Poles collaborated with the Nazis in ferreting out the Jews. In any case, when it comes to war, it's either stand up and fight or acquiesce and suffer the consequences. In this case, the partisans fought (and survived) while the neighboring Poles put themselves at the mercy of the Germans--and lost.
No Problem Oleg, we have very similar beliefs, & sometimes express them in a offensive manner. Appreciate the advise.
On the topic, it is a no win situation, the nazi's did hit back but those who were hit were at least saved the extended torture that the camps brought. It is better to have ones own life in their hands always then to be at the mercy of the cruel.
On the topic, it is a no win situation, the nazi's did hit back but those who were hit were at least saved the extended torture that the camps brought. It is better to have ones own life in their hands always then to be at the mercy of the cruel.
another okie
New member
"Why didn't the Jews fight?" is a false question.
They did. There were Jews in almost every army that fought the Germans: Polish, French, British, American, Soviet. There were partisan groups of Jews in Eastern Europe.
If you mean, why didn't individual Jews fight back against the police of their own countries who were rounding them up, then the answer is:
1. they were disarmed;
2. they believed it was useless;
3. they hoped it would turn out all right;
4. they were afraid of reprisals;
5. they were disarmed.
I just finished reading "The Last Seven Months of Anne Frank," a collection of eyewitness accounts of those who knew her in the camps and at her death. One of the witnesses says this very thing: there were all these Germans with guns and we were disarmed. We trusted our Dutch government and police to protect us. Instead they turned us over to the Germans.
They did. There were Jews in almost every army that fought the Germans: Polish, French, British, American, Soviet. There were partisan groups of Jews in Eastern Europe.
If you mean, why didn't individual Jews fight back against the police of their own countries who were rounding them up, then the answer is:
1. they were disarmed;
2. they believed it was useless;
3. they hoped it would turn out all right;
4. they were afraid of reprisals;
5. they were disarmed.
I just finished reading "The Last Seven Months of Anne Frank," a collection of eyewitness accounts of those who knew her in the camps and at her death. One of the witnesses says this very thing: there were all these Germans with guns and we were disarmed. We trusted our Dutch government and police to protect us. Instead they turned us over to the Germans.
Most (nearly all) didn't fight because over thousands of years they've conditioned themselves to be victims and because they've put their lives and souls in Gods hands. In the latter respect they are worse than the Muslims and Shintoists who at least go (or went) to their God fighting.
How is this relevant to us in Great Britain, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and America?
We are doing exactly the same thing to ourselves!
Just look to the UK for the most extreme example, then to Australia and down the line.
America may be last but the conditioning is in place from preschool to senior citizen.
Just look at some of the other threads on this forum which document what is happening in these countries and in a growing number of United States.
How is this relevant to us in Great Britain, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and America?
We are doing exactly the same thing to ourselves!
Just look to the UK for the most extreme example, then to Australia and down the line.
America may be last but the conditioning is in place from preschool to senior citizen.
Just look at some of the other threads on this forum which document what is happening in these countries and in a growing number of United States.
MuzzleBlast
New member
Remember that scene in Saving Private Ryan where the Jewish guy is taunting the German POW's with the Star of David on his dogtag chain. "Jude! Understand? Jude!" If that didn't really happen, it should have!