glocktwotwo
New member
Size and power..small gun decent power...easy to conceal...just like half of the other replies
why all the rage in single stack 9mms?
- Thread starter TheDeej
- Start date
CCW laws have finally spread through all but the most unreasonable states and created a new market for thousands of ccw'ers.
As with most things we prefer comfort - a slim 6+1 9mm is easy to get along with all day, can be truly concealed, and will get the job done should it be needed.
As with most things we prefer comfort - a slim 6+1 9mm is easy to get along with all day, can be truly concealed, and will get the job done should it be needed.
Sparks1957
New member
My Kahr CW9 is very comfortable to carry all day, big enough to shoot fairly well, and with 7+1 rounds of 9mm, has enough capacity to reassure me.
jibberjabber
New member
Invisible hand.
The weapon in and of itself is adequate for self defense.
The weapon and the operator? Probably not, most of the time, considering I've seen the average handgunner at the range with full size handguns. Micro double actions are even harder to use. In any case, if you put a thousand rounds through it a year and are a good handgunner I'm sure they are very fine self defense weapons.
The weapon and the operator? Probably not, most of the time, considering I've seen the average handgunner at the range with full size handguns. Micro double actions are even harder to use. In any case, if you put a thousand rounds through it a year and are a good handgunner I'm sure they are very fine self defense weapons.
So have I. The average person carrying a gun these days has little or no formal training. Couple that with a gun that's difficult to shoot well and possibly sketchy on reliability, and...well, I worry.
FWIW, the rush to the bottom in terms of size is nothing new. I remember the introduction of the Baby Glocks in 1995. Massad Ayoob wrote in the Shooting Times:
The problem is, the industry needs to do more than satisfy an impulse. They need to stress training and competence as well. I'm seeing far too many people whose main criteria for a defensive arm is "concealability" rather than accuracy, power, or reliability.
Interestingly that is the one company who has yet to offer a single stack 9mm!
It’s a huge hole in their line-up if you ask me.
They made the G36, why not a single stack 9mm? Its bizarre really.
For many of us concealability is paramount - if its not completely concealed and comfortable all day many of us wouldn’t be able to carry at all, most of the time.
I do agree with the training/practice aspect though, too many folks buy, carry, and never shoot it.
Roland Thunder
New member
My experience has been that the compact size guns (e.g. PPS, M&P9c, etc.) while easier to shoot accurately than pocket sized gun are still not as easy to shoot accurately as their full size conterpart, e.g. M&P 9, PPQ as some would suggest.
Concealability being the top priority isn't unreasonable. Many of us, including myself, live in states that are not gun friendly. If I got spotted, and the police were called, I would more than likely lose my permit and all my guns.
Given the small likelihood of needing the gun for defense, it seems more likely to me that I'll lose my permit due to some BS a judge comes up with. So if I can't conceal it with 100% confidence, it stays home.
If I lived in a free state, absolutely I would place concealability at about third on the list, underneath reliability and my ability to shoot it well. I would go bigger if needed to achieve the first two things. But it's better to have X on your hip than Y at home, right?
Given the small likelihood of needing the gun for defense, it seems more likely to me that I'll lose my permit due to some BS a judge comes up with. So if I can't conceal it with 100% confidence, it stays home.
If I lived in a free state, absolutely I would place concealability at about third on the list, underneath reliability and my ability to shoot it well. I would go bigger if needed to achieve the first two things. But it's better to have X on your hip than Y at home, right?
Dragline45
New member
Tom Servo
Scotchman
Like Scotchman I live in gun un-friendly state as I previously posted. Reaching on a high shelf in a store and having my gun show will get me arrested and as scothcman said have my permit and guns taken away, welcome to Massachusetts. Concealability is on the top of my list when looking for a carry gun. I currently carry a S&W J frame in .38, I often carry my PPK in .380. and I don't feel under powered. As a normal, everyday, law abiding citizen, I am perfectly comfortable with the compromise I make by carrying a small concealable gun.
Also as previously stated, I don't let firearms dictate how I live my life. I am not going to alter my style of dress, just as I wont let not being able to carry in certain places influence where I go and do not go. Carrying a full size service handgun does not fit my needs. I would rather be comfortable all day with my snub nose, small .380, or single stack 9mm, then having to lug around a full size handgun, and believe me I have tried. For those out their who say they do it all day everyday with no problems, im sure you do, but you cant deny it would be easier and more comfortable to carry around a smaller gun.
Scotchman
Like Scotchman I live in gun un-friendly state as I previously posted. Reaching on a high shelf in a store and having my gun show will get me arrested and as scothcman said have my permit and guns taken away, welcome to Massachusetts. Concealability is on the top of my list when looking for a carry gun. I currently carry a S&W J frame in .38, I often carry my PPK in .380. and I don't feel under powered. As a normal, everyday, law abiding citizen, I am perfectly comfortable with the compromise I make by carrying a small concealable gun.
Also as previously stated, I don't let firearms dictate how I live my life. I am not going to alter my style of dress, just as I wont let not being able to carry in certain places influence where I go and do not go. Carrying a full size service handgun does not fit my needs. I would rather be comfortable all day with my snub nose, small .380, or single stack 9mm, then having to lug around a full size handgun, and believe me I have tried. For those out their who say they do it all day everyday with no problems, im sure you do, but you cant deny it would be easier and more comfortable to carry around a smaller gun.
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Dragline45
New member
Not disagreeing with you there. Part of the compromise of carrying a smaller gun is they are harder to master and take practice. If you are not willing to put in the practice, a small concealable gun, especially a J frame, may not be the best choice.
Until the '94 Crime Bill with its 10-rd magazine limitation, lots-a-shot hi-caps were indeed the rage; there was a race to see who could cram more rounds into a handgun. Afterward, the 10+1 limit on mags caused designers to look toward smaller guns, since demand for a full-size pistol that could only load 10 rounds dropped off. If you can only have 10, you may as well make it as small as possible. Along came Kel-Tec with the P11, showing that truly small guns could be made in fairly 'serious' calibers.
That started the ball rolling. As mentioned, the passing of CCW bills in most states provided the market for smaller, easily concealed handguns. The rest, as they say, is history.
That started the ball rolling. As mentioned, the passing of CCW bills in most states provided the market for smaller, easily concealed handguns. The rest, as they say, is history.
Single-stack pistols predate double-stack pistols by about 38 years. That said, there were not too many double-stack 9mm pistols when I first transitioned from a revolver to auto. Your choices were mostly either the Browning Hi-Power (Even then it was over $400) or a Smith & Wesson Model 59. At that time the M59's still had some teething problems. As a result, all my pistols were single-stack guns until 1996.
For easy carry, this S&W 3914NL is light, comfortable, fast and accurate. And with 8+1 capacity it doesn't give up much compared to a 10-rd Glock, XD, etc.
But even the full-size Model 39 (and 439) are relatively easy to carry IWB. And I like the way the Model 39 feels in my hand (can you tell?)
When you really examine your need for a CCW pistol, the factors that really stand out are concealment and carry-ability. If it's not easy to conceal or difficult, awkward or uncomfortable to carry all day, you may not have it with you. Ammo capacity takes a secondary priority. For most of us, in reality, 10 rounds or less will usually be more than enough, unless you plan on confronting groups of six or more at once.
For easy carry, this S&W 3914NL is light, comfortable, fast and accurate. And with 8+1 capacity it doesn't give up much compared to a 10-rd Glock, XD, etc.
But even the full-size Model 39 (and 439) are relatively easy to carry IWB. And I like the way the Model 39 feels in my hand (can you tell?)
When you really examine your need for a CCW pistol, the factors that really stand out are concealment and carry-ability. If it's not easy to conceal or difficult, awkward or uncomfortable to carry all day, you may not have it with you. Ammo capacity takes a secondary priority. For most of us, in reality, 10 rounds or less will usually be more than enough, unless you plan on confronting groups of six or more at once.
I don't plan on confronting anybody, BillCA.
But I also don't assume all BG's will not be bullet sponges. It only takes one instance of a BG requiring multiple hits, especially if he has a friend along, to make one wish one had a few more rounds.
I have no problem with single stack autos. As might be guessed from earlier posts, that normally means a PPS for me. But I do carry spare magazines. (Two, as a double magazine pouch makes a pretty nice counterbalance opposite the pistol itself.)
But I also don't assume all BG's will not be bullet sponges. It only takes one instance of a BG requiring multiple hits, especially if he has a friend along, to make one wish one had a few more rounds.
I have no problem with single stack autos. As might be guessed from earlier posts, that normally means a PPS for me. But I do carry spare magazines. (Two, as a double magazine pouch makes a pretty nice counterbalance opposite the pistol itself.)
Love that lineup of Model 39s. I owned one years ago. It was an impressive pistol. It had an especially nice trigger and an exceptional finish as far as a production line gun. Mine came with the box and all of the original tags as purchased from a store in Tyson's Corner Mall in Northern Virginia. It seemed like a very large pistol to me at the time, for some reason. I also owned one of the Ladysmith versions (3913LS?) that was also exceptional.
Onward Allusion
New member
Because of conceal carry and also many people believe that they need a larger caliber weapon instead of more practice with their .380 or .32. Also, many jump on the bandwagon before having actually shot a full house 9mm load in a sub compact frame. It's uncomfortable and it's hard to be accurate.
I'm guessing that we'll be seeing more LNIB LC9, PF9, Nano...etc... in the market soon.
No, Mr. Shep854, I was only saying the S&W Model 39 seemed large in a way the Colt Commander did not (which I did not say before). I think it was the grip that seemed quite large. But on the other hand, the Model 3913LS had a very small grip and it also seemed to sit very high in the hand. The Model 39 did also but it wasn't so noticeable. Overall, they were excellent pistols.
In comparison, a Browing Hi-Power did not have that same large feeling even though it had a double-stack magazine. But in all of these comparisons, I usually didn't have two different pistols on hand at the same time to actually compare one right after the other, so impressions are highly subjective. However, I kept a piece of paper with measurements on it (length and "height", but not thickness/width) and it was eye-opening as to how little the differences were in most cases.
Another little handgun I owned that wasn't so little was a Browning .380. That was ages ago. Beautiful gun, almost identical to the Beretta .380s but with some significant differences. But it was large and thick. It was certainly easier to shoot than a Walther PPK by a long shot. The point here is that you can't have everything in a given pistol but usually some things are not as important as we might think. Take your choice.
Personally, I have my own ideas of features I'd like to see in a handgun but nobody ever asks me. An FN M1903 is about the perfect size for a handgun with all of the right features but even it isn't perfect.
In comparison, a Browing Hi-Power did not have that same large feeling even though it had a double-stack magazine. But in all of these comparisons, I usually didn't have two different pistols on hand at the same time to actually compare one right after the other, so impressions are highly subjective. However, I kept a piece of paper with measurements on it (length and "height", but not thickness/width) and it was eye-opening as to how little the differences were in most cases.
Another little handgun I owned that wasn't so little was a Browning .380. That was ages ago. Beautiful gun, almost identical to the Beretta .380s but with some significant differences. But it was large and thick. It was certainly easier to shoot than a Walther PPK by a long shot. The point here is that you can't have everything in a given pistol but usually some things are not as important as we might think. Take your choice.
Personally, I have my own ideas of features I'd like to see in a handgun but nobody ever asks me. An FN M1903 is about the perfect size for a handgun with all of the right features but even it isn't perfect.