Why 300 blackout instead of 7.62x39?

roni said:
As for me' I'll take the .308 route because, if you reload, you can make the .308 do everything the 300BO does, including the subsonic route

You absolutely can not. I have all three of the mentioned AR's a Ar10 in 308 , AR 15 in 300 black out and a AR15 in 7.62x39.

There are two things that give the 300 BLK the advantage esp when reloading.
#1 is case size. Almost any load you try no matter the bullet size or powder choice will be above 90% fill rate.( Not counting subs with fast pistol powder) So almost any load will work the action and be relatively accurate. Its the #1 easiest caliber to work a load up for EVER!!!

#2 Chamber room. Since this was designed to run the big fat monsters. You can pretty much stick any 30 cal bullet in there and make it run.

Good example would be making a cast bullet load. I just did that for the 308 and the 7.62x39 upper.
The 7.62x39 was much easier but still took a bit of tweaking to find the right mix. The 308 took allot of work to get the right gas and still be accurate.
Most powders would ether be accurate or work the action. Not both.

The 300 BLK you have non of those concerns its almost as close to a no brainer as you can get. All of them work, your just looking for the best combo of the ones you have.
 
Last edited:

COSteve

New member
First, let me say that I don't own either caliber so I don't have a dog in the fight, however, I have studied the ballistics of both calibers and have experience shooting both as well. The sole reason the 300 BO exists is the M-16/M-4 platform and it's perceived need for a heavy, 30 cal subsonic rd that performs well in a short barreled version of the M-4. Yes, the 300 BO can feed better in an AR platform who's magwell wasn't made to accept the 7.62x39 but that it's single advantage real advantage and many AR lowers are now made to work equally well with both. Further, you don't have to go to a cheap, clunky Commie mil rifle to shoot the 7.62x39 as there are semi-autos and bolt guns chambered in it made by quality rifle makers.

That said, once the legions of fanboys stop drooling all over the AR platform as the end all and be all of semi-autos, the 300 BO reveals itself as ballistically inferior to the 7.62x39 in all bullet weights, either supersonic or subsonic loading. I'm not talking about what someone likes or wishes, I'm talking testable, measurable performance. Fact, not opinion. The fact that the mil-surp 7.62x39 ammo isn't readily available in heavy weight, subsonic loads is only due to no perceived need, not because it isn't doable as 150grn and 200grn .311/.312 projectiles are still being made if their military wanted to load it.

Ballistically, the 300 BO's smaller case capacity requires it to be loaded with magnum pistol powders instead of higher performing rifle powders. This limits it's supersonic performance capabilities. As heavy, subsonic bullet weights are purposely velocity limited, the lower performance of the pistol powders isn't a factor for them. However, it is a fact that the 300 BO doesn't have the velocity capability of the larger cased, rifle powder loaded, 7.62x39 in any bullet weight. It's a matter of performance, not preference as it's capability falls short of the 7.62x39 in all supersonic bullet weights; some as much as 200fps. That translates to range limitations for acceptable performance in the 300 BO well before that of the faster 7.62x39.

Ammo wise, both calibers are available commercially in brass cased, Boxer primed loads from quality manufactures for the same prices so neither has an advantage, however, the 7.62x39 is also available as cheap Commie junk ammo if one is into blasting. While the cheap stuff might sound appealing to some, I don't consider it a reasonable choice as it's dirty, inaccurate, and hard on components but the fact is that some, maybe many, like the option of buying 20¢/rd blasting junk and doing mag dumps. The 300 BO has no cheap, junk ammo option so if that is a consideration, the 300 BO falls short once again.

The facts are that both calibers are easily handloaded at the same cost per rd, and both can be loaded with easily obtainable, similarly priced components from heavy subsonic to medium and light supersonic loads.
Quality 200grn class, 150grn class, 125grn class, and lighter bullets are available for both the 300 BO (.308 caliber) and 7.62x39 (.311/.312 caliber). In addition, surplus 110grn and 150grn class surplus bullets are also available for both calibers while surplus 125grn class bullets are available in .311/.312 caliber only.

Yes, the 300 BO brass can be made from .223/5.56, however, it costs time and money to do it and that same time and money can be expended to process spent 7.62x39 cases to accept Boxer primers. Further, many opt to buy processed brass instead of making their own. Processed brass is available in either caliber at about the same price and using Boxer primed brass cases from same priced factory ammo is also available so arguing that the 300 BO is cheaper falls apart rather quickly when one actually looks at what's available.
 

thump_rrr

New member
For those people who have 300BLK running in all 4 modes without any changes.

What gas system length?
What brand of barrel?
What buffer Spring?
What buffer weight?

Anything else you would like to add?
 

Sharkbite

New member
For those people who have 300BLK running in all 4 modes without any changes.

What gas system length?
What brand of barrel?
What buffer Spring?
What buffer weight?

Anything else you would like to add?

My SBR is a good example of swiss watch functioning in all 4 modes.

Its an AAC upper on a Spikes lower. 9" pistol gassed barrel over a standard carbine spring and an H2 buffer.

I tried one of the JP silent spring set ups, looking to quiet the "sprong" noise. While it did a good job of that the spring setup is expensive and ultimately unneeded.

Now, i have not shot much factory ammo, but my reloads work with boring reliability. Both subs (208Amax over 1680) and supers (125SMK over H110 and 4227). Ive loaded a bunch of 150gn pills as well, but just dont like that bullet weight as well as the 125's. They function just fine but the velocity is lower then i like.
 

stagpanther

New member
Because the shoulder is knocked back on the 300 BO--you get to play with the "long pointy things" instead of the "flatbase things" : ) Barnes made the 110 Tac tx specifically for the BO--and it sure shoots fine out of my 7.5" pistol launched by lil gun. But any top quality pistol powder will likely do well. My gun has yet to cough on anything moving up and down in bullet and powder weights, and I know that my home-grown cases were less than consistent between each other. : )
 

TMD

New member
For those people who have 300BLK running in all 4 modes without any changes.

What gas system length?
What brand of barrel?
What buffer Spring?
What buffer weight?

Anything else you would like to add?

Pistol length gas
Most barrels work great is they have the proper sized gas port, this is dependant on barrel length
Standard carbine buffer and spring are the norm with the exception of AAC's barrels. AAC recommends a H2 due to them using a larger than most gas port.
 
why .308 instead of 30-06?

That would require a complete new fire arm. Some one would need to come up with a Long Action AR10 for that baby.
I would buy one..:rolleyes:

Need one?? Maybe long range shots in Afghanistan. Other than that. maybe not.
 

stagpanther

New member
10 some odd pounds--not bad--that's about what my AR 10 builds weigh--but still a hunk of iron to be haulin around for any distance. I've always wondered how you get a belted case to headspace in an AR.
 
X39 is a "has been". Lots of rifles around. Still some surplus ammo. Still new production rifles and ammo, but, as militaries get farther away from the cartridge, it will fade. Sure it will take a while, but I am confident it will fade. 30-40 Krag is still available and took a long time to slowly fade, but it eventually happened.

I don't think X39 is a cartridge that can stand on its own feet like the 45-70.
 

HankC1

New member
X39 is a "has been". Lots of rifles around. Still some surplus ammo. Still new production rifles and ammo, but, as militaries get farther away from the cartridge, it will fade. Sure it will take a while, but I am confident it will fade. 30-40 Krag is still available and took a long time to slowly fade, but it eventually happened.

I don't think X39 is a cartridge that can stand on its own feet like the 45-70.
!00% agree but probably after Middle East in peace and African stop killing each other. Then they will dump all the AKs and ammo and we will see AK part kits and cheap surplus ammo coming in again!:D
 

Llama Bob

New member
There's a LOT more interest in .300 BLK independent of the availability of cheap surplus than there is for 7.62x39.

Love them or hate them, the AR15 is America's gun right now. The .300 BLK runs in it with only a barrel swap. The 7.62x39 requires more parts and is still likely to function poorly. It's not really a close competition. Junk AKs made by starving Bulgarian peasants need not apply.

Then there's the ammo situation. There are roughly 2x more .300 BLK loads available on Midway than there are 7.62x39. People go where the readily available ammo is.
 

kcub

New member
There is zero truth in the previous post.

There's a LOT more interest in .300 BLK independent of the availability of cheap surplus than there is for 7.62x39.

You take away the primary advantage and claim victory? Isn't that fair and balanced.

Love them or hate them, the AR15 is America's gun right now. The .300 BLK runs in it with only a barrel swap. The 7.62x39 requires more parts and is still likely to function poorly. It's not really a close competition. Junk AKs made by starving Bulgarian peasants need not apply.

Irrelevant, we're not even talking rifles and Bulgarians make high quality rifles by the way.

Then there's the ammo situation. There are roughly 2x more .300 BLK loads available on Midway than there are 7.62x39. People go where the readily available ammo is.

Really? This is defiantly stupid. The number of loads that you can't find locally > tons of ammo worldwide? Or even just in America?
 

mavracer

New member
You take away the primary advantage and claim victory? Isn't that fair and balanced.
Um that's how it's done, any advantage some other gun has over your pet is marginalized, while your pets advantage is the most important thing ever.

I will say that while you can still get cheap ammo I haven't seen any actual surplus X39 for a while.
 
I'm not taking it away and neither is any other poster. It is just a simple fact that COMBLOC is gone and Russia doesn't use X39 anymore. Over time less and less militaries are going to use it. The ones that are left are going to be the really poor ones that can't afford new production ammo and are eating up the surplus themselves. Then the arms treaties come into play so must of the surplus can't be imported anyways.

The simple reality is X39 is not going to be a cheap surplus round forever. It is going to continue to be more and more expensive. Without that advantage the 300 BO is a better round for most shooters in the US market. People will still have the AKs b/c they will last much longer than the ammo, bu they won't be taking them to the range to blast at paper with for an afternoon much anymore.

I expect AK rifles chambered in cartridges other than X39 to gain popularity though.
 

kcub

New member
Well, there's also the SKS. Also a sizable chunk of the third world uses and will continue to use x39 at least until peace prevails in the middle east.

Even commercial x39 has enough volume behind it to keep it priced better than anything other than 223/5.56. Now 5.45x39 has supply concerns but that's another matter.
 
Also a sizable chunk of the third world uses and will continue to use x39 at least until peace prevails in the middle east.
They are using the cheap surplus. That is why they use it. They are competing for the same thing US shooters are buying, not generating additional surplus. Serviceable "surplus" ammunition isn't a third world thing. It is a first world military industrial complex thing. The actual government forces are slowly moving to other systems anyways. I'm pretty sure we've stopped handing out masses of x39 AKs and I think the Russians are giving out other things also. I'm not saying this is happening in the next five years, but the market will look different in 15 for sure.

I'm not sure anyone really knows how much the Russians have stashed away in warehouses though. It could be enough to keep the rest of the world supplied for generations.
 
Top